Legumes that will over-winter in zone 3 winters (-35 degrees)

[Foggy47]

OK.....so I keep hearing suggestions about some clovers or other legumes that may be a "better" choice for me. I'm in zone 3. We have cold winters. I would like to plant some legumes in late summer / fall that could be there for my deer in spring. So far....I am only convinced that red clover(like medium red) and white clover( Ladino varieties) will over-winter here. I'd sure like to plant crimson clover, frosty beseem, or fixation balansa in FALL......but they are not rated to overwinter for zone 3 .....and I would love to hear some great experiences with these varieties in my zone. So I am looking for any other alternative Legumes I can plant that can stand zone 3 winter temps. Looking for candidates that are reasonably priced and will provide nutrition in spring when I really need it....then provide the N for the next crop in July when I plant my Brassica Mix. Advice is appreciated.

Here is a short list I got of the web. My comments in parenthesis.

Perennial Legumes

• Alfalfa. Alfalfa is the most frequently grown forage legume and the highest-yielding perennial forage crop grown in many countries. ... (too long to establish and costly)
• Birdsfoot Trefoil. ... (hard to terminate and difficult to drill seed into)
• Red Clover. ... (using it)
• White Clover. ... (using it)
• Sweet Clover. ... (not real great food for deer)
• Alsike Clover. ... (dunno - nothing to gain over white clovers, which are more palatable)
• Kura Clover. ... (expensive)
• Timothy. (dunno - no experience)

 

[homerj]

Pretty sure Timothy is a grass, not a legume

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Will let you know this spring if fixation made it through last winter on the zone 4a/3b boundary. With the consistent snow cover all winter it should have had a pretty good chance. I only planted a little mixed with primarily medium red, ladino, and chicory and mostly just surface broadcasted later into some brassicas so I don't expect to see a ton of it.

I'm pretty optimistic that fall planted fixation can do well. I'll be using a fair bit of it this summer/fall too in the drill with mixes.

 

[Westwind]

• Alsike Clover. ... (dunno - nothing to gain over white clovers, which are more palatable)
• Kura Clover. ... (expensive)
• Timothy. (dunno - no experience)

Foggy, it gets cold her but not that cold. 5a, big difference. We had some really cold spells in the last five years but still… it’s not the same.

Alsike- I use this in every mix but I go a little heavier in the timber patches and along my timber edges. You are right- it doesn’t have advantage over white clover it just seems to do a tad better in partial shade and the less ideal soil. I don’t believe it would have trouble over wintering.

Kura- really expensive. Here is the “but”… I bought some Kura in an Ed Spinnazola mix more than a decade ago. I planted it in a back patch and the mix did great. That patch fell into disrepair but that clover still grows on its own back there. As Ed said in his book, Kura had some natural roundup resistance and is considered an invasive by some. Invade me! Seems pretty indestructible. (Note to readers- by natural roundup resistance, he means he sprayed a quart of 41% gly per acre in mid-May in northern Michigan. He isn’t dumping two quarts in July etc…)

In the Welter catalog, Kura is $12 per pound. Right under it is “Aberlasting” at $6.40. They describe it as “a great replacement for Kura, Developed by crossing Caucasian with white clover”. I have tried to figure out what they mean by that, no luck. I keep putting off making my order but I really hope they have some of that because I’m going to try it. (I’ll only do that in “forever clover” patches.) I hope it has the same natural roundup resistance as Kura.

You don’t want Timothy. Its a grass.

I have planted Frosty Berseem. It was fine. In my area it was fine but I kind of count that as an annual, it was there the next year but not gangbusters. I had to buy a whole bag of it. I didn’t put pencil to paper but I remember thinking it seemed expensive.

 

[SD51555]

Will let you know this spring if fixation made it through last winter on the zone 4a/3b boundary. With the consistent snow cover all winter it should have had a pretty good chance. I only planted a little mixed with primarily medium red, ladino, and chicory and mostly just surface broadcasted later into some brassicas so I don't expect to see a ton of it.

I'm pretty optimistic that fall planted fixation can do well. I'll be using a fair bit of it this summer/fall too in the drill with mixes.

I think it's worth it to keep trying. I never seem to have a normal year. I swing from flood to drought to 'let's get rid of all the topsoil and oyxgen and start over.' I still have one food plot with original topsoil that got covered in fixation last year. I hope to see some this spring too. It's certainly been covered in plenty of snow for the winter.

 

[bigboreblr]

Timothy is browsed some, but not really desireable for food plots. Does grow in the adirondacks zone 3b sandy soil. Same goes fo birdsfoot trefoil. Put it in a clover mix 2 or 3 years ago. Not using it again.

Ladino, dutch white clover, medium red, whitetail imperial mix grow well yp there too. Common and englisg plantain is a nice perennial mix for trail and lawn areas.

They say patriot is better up north, alot of places were out of stock this winter. Frost seeded durana, will find out next spring, but its improved ladino if I am correct, shold be good to go.

Had a cold snap down to -35 deg F up there. My whitetail crabs were fall planted up there. About 6-9 inhes of snow cover during that spell.

 

[homerj]

Most any clover or alfalfa will be subject to winter damage when there is little snow when it gets to -35

 

[Foggy47]

"You don’t want Timothy. Its a grass."

^ That is what I always thought about Timothy too.....but have no experience growing any. The list I copied said it was a LEGUME.......?? I just copy and pasted the listed crops. Gonna check to see if there is any nitrogen capability with Timothy. (doubt it).

I'd like to find another zone-3 hardy Legume (or three) that I could plant in fall and terminate the following year for the nitrogen fixing ability.....as well as for food I spring. <-----this way I can hang out in "OZ" longer and play golf until it warms up back in MN. I like to just leave my land alone and to provide early season nutrition for the deer which are generally starving at that time of year. My deer are all-over the rye and clover at first green-up. Then, the rye provides super fawning cover from bears and coyotes until July......when I can start planting other things and terminate the rye......thus gaining the "free" nitrogen for the succeeding crop(s).

I'm going to try a few annual clovers that may show promise to overwinter......but I'm just searching for any other Legume candidates. Gotta get all the nitrogen I can......and keep the weeds crowed-out.

 

[Barndog56]

Subterranean clover is an annual white clover that's supposed to be good to zone 3. You can find info at Hancock seed.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

If you are just fall planting it as a "cover" crop for a late summer brassica planting just stick with medium red. It should over winter for you just fine, is cheap, and is short lived so you are not paying for and killing a long term clover.

If you don't see VNS Medium Red over wintering well for you there is one called Manitoba Brand Medium Red that should fit the bill for you.

 

[Foggy47]

^ ^ ^ So noted. I am using some of those suggestions above. Just got time.....so I am hunting for other possibilities. I did run into an interesting book that I just ordered. Seemed to have good information as a reference and source book of all things we discuss here. After reviewing it and paging back and forth on-line.....I figure it's worth owning. Check it out on line....or download it for free.

https://www.sare.org/wp-content/uploads/Managing-Cover-Crops-Profitably.pdf

 

[bigboreblr]

timothy and trefoil arent great for plots, but theyre not bad for trails.

 

[b116757]

Trefoil was pretty common zone 3 where I grew up I just don’t know how much the deer actually ate it. I considered drilling it into a field down here in Kansas but for hay more so than wildlife. I used red clover and Ladino years ago when I lived up there alfalfa works well but you have stay on top of cutting it often it’s maintenance gets to be bothersome.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Had/have a bunch of birdsfoot trefoil in one of my hayfields converted to foodplot. That stuff is persistent! Seems to pull through gly sprayings even a bit.

 

[Foggy47]

Had/have a bunch of birdsfoot trefoil in one of my hayfields converted to foodplot. That stuff is persistent! Seems to pull through gly sprayings even a bit.

I have read that many folks have trouble controlling the BF Trefoil. Terminating it can be tough and it is difficult to drill into that stuff. It does have allot of other benefits except the N it provides.....but so does red clover and other clovers in general.....which are more palatable to the critters. I may plant a few lbs of BF Trefoil of it this summer.....just to get some experience with it. Some have said it's invasive. Not sure it fits my needs and plans.

 

[bigboreblr]

IT's not necessarily what, but when. We all get pumped up for deer season at the end of summer, but often perennial's grown in late summer don't have enough root depth or root energy to make it to the next year. Frost seeded or spring planted clovers make it much better the next year than fall in my experience.

I've tried about 4 years to get dandelion in the mowed areas at camp, like the parking lot. Kept doing may or august spreading. See little dandelions, but not the next year.. Frosted seeded it febuary 2022, came back in 2023.

Between the plantain, clover, and dandelion you can see snowshoe hares every morning and afternoon at camp, if your quiet. Before that, some club members never seen a snowshoe hare outside of driving down the road at night. Hopefully not hunting.......

 

[Foggy47]

IT's not necessarily what, but when. We all get pumped up for deer season at the end of summer, but often perennial's grown in late summer don't have enough root depth or root energy to make it to the next year. Frost seeded or spring planted clovers make it much better the next year than fall in my experience.

I've tried about 4 years to get dandelion in the mowed areas at camp, like the parking lot. Kept doing may or august spreading. See little dandelions, but not the next year.. Frosted seeded it febuary 2022, came back in 2023.

Between the plantain, clover, and dandelion you can see snowshoe hares every morning and afternoon at camp, if your quiet. Before that, some club members never seen a snowshoe hare outside of driving down the road at night. Hopefully not hunting.......

frost seeding dandelions? to manage snow shoe hares?? What planet are your on? lol. (no offense).

 

[Wild Thing]

I am in Zone 4a Foggy so probably not quite as cold as you although we do at times see minus 20 to minus 35 degrees.

When I started planting food plots back in the mid-1980’s Birdsfoot Trefoil was being touted as a great deer forage…. So I planted some. Since then, I have yet to ever see a deer browse it, and I have found that it is virtually impossible to eradicate it. I think the word “Invasive” is a perfect description of BT attributes. I would never again knowingly plant the stuff.

I have had good success planting probably all of the legumes you listed above (yes - Timothy is a grass), and most everything has overwintered well here. While not a preferred deer forage, Hairy Vetch has also overwintered well and fixes a lot of Nitrogen for me as well. I have also had generally good results with Dixie Crimson clover overwintering here when added to my July brassica mix as well as my August cover crop mix. This past year was an exception as I did not see much crimson in the spring/summer this year but generally speaking it has worked out well.

 

[FarmerDan]

I don't have a dog in this hunt. I've seen -30 only once in my life and it was far north of me. However, I am curious about how a fall planted legume - or anything else, germinates, grows and then survives to burst into useful growth in early spring given the below zero temperatures mentioned. I have this picture in my head of a young plant with nominal root and top growth encased in concrete like frozen soil. Natural dormancy will help, but eventually lack of moisture (yes, all around but rendered inert by weeks of frozen inaccessibility) will kill the young plants? It's a question. And I'm not questioning that it happens but I don't understand how. Does snow cover moderate the soil temperature? I assume the original question is about air temperatures. If the soil is frozen solid to a depth beyond the plants root reach does it thaw enough during the day to provide some moisture? I guess there are other circumstances that allow the mission to be accomplished.

So, should the focus be on the plant varieties or the environmental possibilities beyond air temperature? It's just my curiosity gone amok!

By the way Foggy's original question is awesome!

 

[SD51555]

For what I’ve seen doing this, alfalfa may be the best option. Balansa is a close second. I say that knowing the other perennial clovers are tough, and too tough that it takes too much intervention to get them under control to be able to do anything else.

Drought tolerant alfalfa may be a hard find, but I’d throw $50 at it and at least try. I have patches of it in my yard plot and the deer ate on it all summer, and it never got too mature.


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