Green cover summer release and fall release pics.

[Wild Thing]

WT thanks very much for you full and clear explanation of your successful cultipacker process ..I really appreciate it ..

And to confirm your "event" order starting with a field of mature clover and the rye seed head at "milk stage" ..you roll first, drill new crop then spray two weeks after drilling
Curios ..some I read prefer to drill first ... then roll ..then I suppose if no weeds and a crimper roller was used and no kill off of a non annual clover to terminate you are done ..

I do not see a real preference of roll or plant first unless it would have to do with the drill's capability ??


Bear

The order of "events" if you will, depends upon what you are planting. The only time I would spray AFTER planting would be when I plant a Roundup Ready crop (i.e. corn, soybeans, sugar beets, etc). Yes, I have done that many times in the past. In the case I spoke of above, I planted brassicas so spraying after planting is not an option - there are no Roundup Ready brassicas that I am aware of. So in this case I rolled the rye, sprayed with a herbicide, and drilled the seed the next day.

My drill is very capable of drilling into a standing cover crop, rolled thatch or whatever. It just depends upon the situation and what you are planting.

 

[Wild Thing]

I’m a bit worried my gly only this year isn’t going to do the job and im going to have some spots of clover and birdsfoot trefoil not letting my seed have it’s fall.

Agree - As you probably well know Wind Gypsy, clovers and birdsfoot trefoil are pretty much Glyphosate resistant and are difficult to kill with Gly alone. This is exactly why I sprayed with Glufosinate this year - I want something that would terminate the clovers and alfalfa with one application and that would have no residual which would require that I wait a few weeks before planting.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I do it every year brokenbear....but I am not spraying to terminate the rye - that is done for when I roll it with my cultipacker. I use the herbicide to terminate the clovers, vetch and any other low lying weeds that I don't want competing with my next crop.

The rye in this cover crop was planted at about 100#/acre which I think gives me adequate thatch
View attachment 54937

I don't have a roller/crimper so I roll it with my cultipacker. It doesn't do as nice a job as a roller/crimper but it gets the job done. I plant brassicas in July here in Upper Michigan so this rye seed isn't viable yet and I don't need to worry about volunteer rye coming up with my brassicas. The rye is done after I crush it with the cultipacker and it isn't going to grow any more.
View attachment 54938

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Last August I drilled rye into 3 acres of alfalfa in anticipation of rotating into brassicas there this year. I wanted to get a good kill with the first spraying and I didn't want to have to wait for maybe 4 weeks before I could plant again with something like 2-4,D which is residual in the soil. So I used Liberty - actually a generic Liberty - "Interline" which has the same active ingredient as Liberty (24.5% Glufosinate) but it has no residual, and costs quite a bit less than Liberty. I applied it at 1.4 quarts per acre in my sprayer. BTW, I drilled the rye into the alfalfa last year at only 75#/acre and it really wasn't thick enough - I think 100#/acre is about right.
View attachment 54940

It has a little different color than what I usually see in my herbicides...
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This is 5 days after spraying and it killed everything flat out...except for a couple of strips I missed with the sprayer I just mixed up a little Glyphosate and nuked those strips before planting the next day.
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You will see a lot of rye, wheat or weeds sticking up some after using the cultipacker but within 3-4 weeks they are all laying down.
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I got 3 acres planted before getting rained out so I headed for the barn and finished up another 3 /12 acres 2 days later.
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These pics are from a previous year but you can see that the openers separate the thatch enough to get some sunlight to the soil and within a few days the brassicas are up.
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Here they are about 3 weeks later. I mix 3-4#/acre of clovers in with the brassicas. You can't see them here as they grow down before they grow up, but in the spring they will be feeding my deer. I also broadcast rye over the brassicas 4 weeks or so after germination for the same reason - feed my deer in the spring and next summer, keep my soil covered, prevent weeds from taking over, etc, etc, etc. As the cover crop breaks down it puts nutrients back into your soil. This is my 8th year since going 100% No-Till and my second year of using zero synthetic fertilizers.
View attachment 54945

This works very well for me.

@Wild Thing the liberty use caught my attention. I have not used it because of the plant back durations for sorghum and wheat listed here. https://www.uaex.uada.edu/publications/pdf/MP519.pdf

have you been fine with grasses planted shortly after spraying glufosinate?

 

[Foggy47]

OK for you fellows doing chemical termination basically for cereal rye ..are you using chemical because of no crimper, weeds in early start up plant in green program or you have a perennial clover that crimping won't work on ??
The reason I ask is I am thinking laid over crimped rye is going to have a longer "thatch" life thereby "possibly" creating better shading of weeds longer as well as a better overburden for moisture retention ..

I have not read this anywhere but a bit of logic applied here ..you could put a chemically terminated milo plant in a kitchen match box 3 weeks after it has been nuked but not so that same plant were you to merely mash it over (still break the stem) to die off on the ground ..

The other question is about cultipacker deployment (since I just blew my budget on a GP 3P606NT USED) ....I intend my first fall planting to be very heavy cereal rye as I am working with dirt panned dirt needing intense plant matter reintroduced so ...

Does anyone have experience using a cultipacker to lay down the rye then perpendicular make a pass to do the actual crimping? ..

Thanks

Bear

I own a Goliath Roller / Crimper, a 3 Point Cultipacker, a Flail Mower and a sprayer. This year I relied on the Sprayer to terminate my clover and rye where I drilled my brassica.

In my clover plots, I let the rye go until last week when I used the Flail mower to take out the rye and the weeds that were growing in my clover. Cleaned up nice.....and I dont think the rye was yet to the viable seed stage. I have a little rye still growing in some newly developed ground.....and I am hoping it will go to seed so I cut down on what I need to add to this fall.

My Roller Crimper has not rolled this year. Used it allot last year. I believe I could live quite nicely without it for my purposes. Still.....it does a good job when it's needed. At least I bought it at the "old price". If I dont use it much over the next few years.....it may go down the road. The other implements do a good job too.

I learned last year.....that I needed to terminate my clover in order to get brassica to thrive to any extent. Therefore the chemical termination this year.....and that seems to be working well at this point. Sure could use a rain tho. I'm on a 50 /50 rotation of clover and brassica.

 

[Wild Thing]

@Wild Thing the liberty use caught my attention. I have not used it because of the plant back durations for sorghum and wheat listed here. https://www.uaex.uada.edu/publications/pdf/MP519.pdf

have you been fine with grasses planted shortly after spraying glufosinate?

I was not aware of the plant back limitations of the grasses after application of Liberty (Glufosonate) Wind Gypsy. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I guess Rye would fit into the same category as Sorghum and Wheat so that is nice to know as I do plant a lot of it. In fact, I always broadcast rye over my brassicas 4-5 weeks after they germinate. Since I sprayed those brassica plots with Glufosonate this year, I may have issues with my rye germinating.

What I liked about the Liberty was the immediate plant back interval for planting broadleaf plants like brassicas. There always seems to be a trade off doesn't there?

On the other hand.... comments and experiences from this thread seem to contradict other opinions on plant back intervals:

Liberty herbicide questionAll Things Habitathttps://habitat-talk.com › ... › Foodplots

 

[Wild Thing]

I learned last year.....that I needed to terminate my clover in order to get brassica to thrive to any extent. Therefore the chemical termination this year.....and that seems to be working well at this point. Sure could use a rain tho. I'm on a 50 /50 rotation of clover and brassica.

I have also learned that clovers need to be terminated well before planting brassicas. I also learned that Glyphosate alone does not generally do a very good job of terminating clovers. I don't have a roller/crimper either and I don't believe it would do much for terminating clovers if I did try it. Consequently, I have relied upon herbicides to terminate clover. I generally rotate between a cereal grain/clover based cover crop to brassicas annually. I am no longer using synthetic fertilizers so I do rely on the legumes to boost atmospheric N in my soil.

We have really struggled with drought conditions this year also Foggy. After getting only 1.37 inches of rain in June and less than an inch the first half of July, we have received over 4 inches of rain in the last 4 days. I should have plenty to get my brassicas germinated.

 

[Wild Thing]

@Wild Thing the liberty use caught my attention. I have not used it because of the plant back durations for sorghum and wheat listed here. https://www.uaex.uada.edu/publications/pdf/MP519.pdf

have you been fine with grasses planted shortly after spraying glufosinate?

Went out at 8 AM to check on my brassica plots @Wind Gypsy ... and I have germination!

I sprayed these plots with Interline at 1.4 quarts/acre on July 13th. 6 days later on July 19th I drilled my brassicas. At 8:00 AM this morning - 3 1/2 days later I've got germination:





It is supposed to be 81 degrees here today. I am sure by this evening I will have a lot more germination.

P.S. I feel a lot better about my chances of getting germination with my rye when I broadcast that in another month...

And...BTW - I probably could have done just as well with spraying at only 1 qt/acre which I will do in the future.

 

[Foggy47]

^ Intersting to see your burn-down with the interline herbicide. I do have some interline on the shelf too from my row crop - corn and soybean days.

This year I used 2 quarts of Glyphosate and 1 pint of 2-4,d for a burn-down of my clover and rye.......and waited two weeks to plant my brassica. Good germination result so far.....but it's gonna get hot and I do not have much moisture in the ground. No rain in sight. Need to get lucky soon.

 

[Brokenbear]

So when one speaks of clovers that will not terminate ..are you referring to perennials or annual clover as I thought clovers like crimson clover terminated well with rolling??

Bear

 

[Wild Thing]

So when one speaks of clovers that will not terminate ..are you referring to perennials or annual clover as I thought clovers like crimson clover terminated well with rolling??

Bear

Medium Red clover for sure has been difficult, if not impossible, for me to terminate with a normal rate of Gly. I generally use 3-5 different clovers in my mixes so it is hard to tell (other than med red) which of the others may be difficult.

In the past, I have used 2-4,D as Foggy did above. It works well for terminating clovers, but you do have a plant back interval (2-4 weeks) in which to wait before you can plant broadleaf again.

Using the Interline (Glufosonate) this year, 1 application toasted all of the clovers and alfalfa from the previous crop.

 

[omicron1792]

Tall stuff is food plot. Where deer is is native grass I planted with some sorghum. I’m keeping it mowed, planted it a little thick on sorghum but NWSG is coming in nicely. Yellow stuff where deer is standing was Japanese stiltgrass I sprayed about a week ago.

Very bottom of pick you can see stage native grass is in on this side of the road.

 

[omicron1792]

Birds Eye view of another plot. Top of screen is plot. This is native grass area around plot planted 2 months ago. This is a better amount of imi tolerant sorghum I planted as nurse crop. Second pic is up close pic of native grass.

 

[Tree Spud]

^ Intersting to see your burn-down with the interline herbicide. I do have some interline on the shelf too from my row crop - corn and soybean days.

This year I used 2 quarts of Glyphosate and 1 pint of 2-4,d for a burn-down of my clover and rye.......and waited two weeks to plant my brassica. Good germination result so far.....but it's gonna get hot and I do not have much moisture in the ground. No rain in sight. Need to get lucky soon.

I used the same mix of 64 oz of gly and 16 oz of 2-4d in my 25 gal sprayer this past spring. Had a good kill of the med red clover and white clover mix I had in. Some of the clover may be trying to rebound, just can't tell because we have been so dry also.

 

[Foggy47]

Looked over my plots today. Most places are now dormant due to lack of meaningful rainfall over many weeks. Still have some clover thriving in low shady spots.....but high ground is toast.....almost crunchy. Some brassica I drilled two weeks ago......is either shoveling up.....or barely hanging on. If we do not get a rain soon.....I think this year could be a bust.

Not sure what I will do next.....just gotta wait and see.

 

[Brokenbear]

I'm in the same boat Foggy ...but it will come around ...my fall plant time will be bare dirt after the weed kill and the beans and rye grass that never got rain ..

I will plant last week of August brassicas n Clovers n chicory and may include 15#/AC awnless wheat just to get some green ..but since so dry I will time it before or after a rain

I have never used and deer "dishes" but some white clover and some PT Turnips

I've no experience with Crimson or fixation Balansa clover ..nor oasis chicory or ground hog radish so don't know how much green if any will be present by November hence the awnless wheat

Once there is actually brassicas showing well I will go in and broadcast 100# winter rye and 35# more of awneless wheat ..unless someone figure I've too many pounds of grains but bare dirt needing thatch badly is the target

Bear

 

[Foggy47]

I'm in the same boat Foggy ...but it will come around ...my fall plant time will be bare dirt after the weed kill and the beans and rye grass that never got rain ..

I will plant last week of August brassicas n Clovers n chicory and may include 15#/AC awnless wheat just to get some green ..but since so dry I will time it before or after a rain

I have never used and deer "dishes" but some white clover and some PT Turnips

I've no experience with Crimson or fixation Balansa clover ..nor oasis chicory or ground hog radish so don't know how much green if any will be present by November hence the awnless wheat

Once there is actually brassicas showing well I will go in and broadcast 100# winter rye and 35# more of awneless wheat ..unless someone figure I've too many pounds of grains but bare dirt needing thatch badly is the target

Bear

^ More or less how I got started in regenerative ag two years ago. At that time everything had burned up due to drought and I was unable to do any work due to my wife being in the hospital much of that time. Pigweed was prevalent and getting worse by the season, and taking over all of my efforts at food plotting. I nuked EVERYthing and started with a clean sheet of paper. I bought a Tar River 505 drill and planted 134 lbs of seed at one shot. Clovers, brassica, and 100 lbs / rye.

I did not get lots of results that fall from the brassica....but the rye was a hit with my deer and in spring I had fantastic rye at first green and lots of good clover too. Now my plan has come to managing rye and clover into July.......and then setting back some areas of clover for a fall brassica.....and back to rye and clover for the spring (meanwhile letting about 1/2 my plots just grow clovers until Sept at which point I drill more rye and replacement clover.)

^ Thus keeping roots in the ground, the soil covered for better moisture retention and the michlorizal fungi thing, and grow more biomass and nitrogen for subsequent plantings. Rinse and repeat.

(I also have drilled some taller crops into my clover in June (a bit of Egyptian wheat, sorghum Sudan grass, and a few other things in an attempt to get some vertical cover).

 

[Brokenbear]

Speaking of vertical... I have fields that will be plots and in places 150 yards across bare ground except what I grow ...all of these plots are surrounded by woods, CRP and creek banks thinly wooded ....

So for my spring/summer large plots I am playing with drill width (6' in my case) bands..borders or whatever to give deer day time comfort ..and I am thinking I would just as soon use something like milo or sunflowers that helps wildlife as opposed to a tall grass species ?? not sure yet on that one but it looks like this fall and winter it is going to be all green (I hope) but just ankle deep ..so that will make the bigger plots less attractive to daylight deer but the turkey n quail ought to love ...

Bear

 

[omicron1792]

Field today. Most of the sorghum and millet has headed out.

Bottom right can see the native grass doing well. Really good amount of grass imo with good space around them. I will throw some forb mix into area this winter. I like getting grasses started first so I can spray and keep clean to get grass going well the first year.

 

[omicron1792]

Cut some shooting lanes in some fields yesterday. Will plant Into standing crops at end of the month.

 

[omicron1792]

Cut my perennial clover fields. This is one. The south puts a beating on clover. The green is all that’s left. However, they do reseed well so I’ll show another pic on a month or so and will be lush.