Gly question

[yoderjac]

Pro-Cal & Advanced-Cal Catalog

Advanced-Cal and Pro-Cal

online.flippingbook.com

I think the fallacy is that all the calcium we have put in fields goes to the plants. It is just not true. Think of all the leaching and condensed calcium from ag lime that never does a thing for the plant.

Also, with no till most of the plant absorbed nutrients go back into the soil after plants are terminated. The more I read and do myself I think a “good” liquid lime is better in most every way for the food plotter.

Reading your history you did change to no till from traditional till as the evidence mounted. My guess is you will do the same with this. Changing the ph quickly with a liquid and getting the first crop growing and absorbing well will have benefits for the next crop, and the next. My guess is this is the benefit people have been attributing to the ag lime “lasting 3-5 years.” If you stop tilling the soil stays in natural balance after getting a jump start from the liquid lime. My guess is you can do the same thing slower without any lime or using ag lime, but eventually with no till and regenerative ag they will all turn out the same.

My opinion, and worth what you paid for it.

The purpose of lime is to adjust the soil pH over time to allow the plant roots to absorb nutrients better from the soil. As for my history, I did not change as evidence mounted. I changed my approach as I learned. The evidence for benefits of no-till has been around for a long time. It was a matter of education not evolving science. I've seen to real science to support the value of liquid lime over ag or pel lime for food plots. I've only seen hype from folks selling the stuff. My soil, for example, is high in calcium. I still need lime to adjust the pH which is the primary purpose. Providing calcium to the plant is a side benefit in cases where it is needed.

 

[omicron1792]

The purpose of lime is to adjust the soil pH over time to allow the plant roots to absorb nutrients better from the soil. As for my history, I did not change as evidence mounted. I changed my approach as I learned. The evidence for benefits of no-till has been around for a long time. It was a matter of education not evolving science. I've seen to real science to support the value of liquid lime over ag or pel lime for food plots. I've only seen hype from folks selling the stuff. My soil, for example, is high in calcium. I still need lime to adjust the pH which is the primary purpose. Providing calcium to the plant is a side benefit in cases where it is needed.

So if soil is high in calcium why would you add tons more?

You’re right, PH adjustment is the key. Allowing Hydrogen ions to transfer. If there is a way to do that without just dumping more and more calcium wouldn’t that be the better way?

 

[yoderjac]

So if soil is high in calcium why would you add tons more?

You’re right, PH adjustment is the key. Allowing Hydrogen ions to transfer. If there is a way to do that without just dumping more and more calcium wouldn’t that be the better way?

As I said, lime is added to adjust the pH of the soil to allow better uptake of many nutrients. My soil is heavy clay. Lime and nutrients move through it slowly. It takes 3-4 tons/ac of high CCE lime to initially adjust a new field to 6.5 here. Once adjusted, it takes many years for the pH to slowly drop. By a smart mix of plants that tolerate lower pH soils and grow well, I can reduce my inputs further. I generally wait until my soil needs 1 ton/ac to apply lime from an efficiency perspective.

Folks with sandy soil have a different problem. There, nutrients move quickly through the soil making no-till and OM building even more important. Folks with sandy or clay loam are in the middle.

Don't get me wrong, having sufficient calcium is important to a plant but that is a single nutrient. I can see farmers that have a crop showing a specific calcium issue with a crop may find it worth spending high $ on liquid calcium to salvage a crop going to market depending on application cost compared to market price for the crop. I don't see it as a useful food plot tool. We are much better off getting soil pH right, using no-till techniques, and selecting good deer food that our soils can support while lime is adjusting pH.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[omicron1792]

This is last post on this. Not trying to change your mind. Just getting my thoughts out.

Even the people that are anti liquid lime say it works faster. So for getting a first year plot up and going “most” admit liquid works faster

We have already disproved the “there isn’t enough calcium in 3 gallons of liquid lime.” That doesn’t matter. Fields have plenty of calcium. It is available calcium and agents that neutralize ph that matters.

For the average food plotter what is easier. Take someone that manages 2 acres of food plots total.

1. Get ag lime spread. I say this is impossible. I tried. No one will do it.

2. Spread ag or pellet lime themselves. If your soil report says you need 2 tons of lime per acre. That is 200 bags of pellet lime. No easy task for someone hauling the bags. Using an atv spreader that holds 100lbs at a time.

3. Using a liquid lime product at 2-4 gallons per acre. “Most” have an atv sprayer and already spray Gly. This is a natural thing that requires one more pass with sprayer than they normally do.

Yea, they might have to do it yearly, or maybe not. But one more pass with a sprayer every fall is way way way easier than spreading 200 bags of pellet lime every 3-5 years. No comparison.

So what most do is spread some pellet lime when they plant. Probably a 10th of what the soil test calls for. And they never ever catch up and get worse results than If they just used liquid lime every fall before planting.

If my reasoning is wrong tell me. I think because we have “always done it this way” is not smart and doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[archer8030]

This is last post on this. Not trying to change your mind. Just getting my thoughts out.

Even the people that are anti liquid lime say it works faster. So for getting a first year plot up and going “most” admit liquid works faster

We have already disproved the “there isn’t enough calcium in 3 gallons of liquid lime.” That doesn’t matter. Fields have plenty of calcium. It is available calcium and agents that neutralize ph that matters.

For the average food plotter what is easier. Take someone that manages 2 acres of food plots total.

1. Get ag lime spread. I say this is impossible. I tried. No one will do it.

2. Spread ag or pellet lime themselves. If your soil report says you need 2 tons of lime per acre. That is 200 bags of pellet lime. No easy task for someone hauling the bags. Using an atv spreader that holds 100lbs at a time.

3. Using a liquid lime product at 2-4 gallons per acre. “Most” have an atv sprayer and already spray Gly. This is a natural thing that requires one more pass with sprayer than they normally do.

Yea, they might have to do it yearly, or maybe not. But one more pass with a sprayer every fall is way way way easier than spreading 200 bags of pellet lime every 3-5 years. No comparison.

So what most do is spread some pellet lime when they plant. Probably a 10th of what the soil test calls for. And they never ever catch up and get worse results than If they just used liquid lime every fall before planting.

If my reasoning is wrong tell me. I think because we have “always done it this way” is not smart and doesn’t make sense to me.

Your comments on ease of use and faster absorption is why I have chosen to go with a liquid. As I mentioned, I'm creating a small (<3000sq ft) food plot in a very secluded area on my property. As of a week ago, I do have a four wheeler now so work has gotten a little easier but I couldn't imagine having to shuttle hundreds of bags of pelletized lime back into this area when I can take my 4 gallon backpack sprayer in there much more easily. Yes, I realize I may have to do this multiple times but that's still more achievable than shuttling a ton or more of pelletized lime back into the area where I'm making the food plot. Plus, I like the idea of working "faster" is another attribute that drew me to using liquid.

In the end, if the particular plan of attack doesn't work, I'll make adjustments and try again in the spring. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[yoderjac]

This is last post on this. Not trying to change your mind. Just getting my thoughts out.

Even the people that are anti liquid lime say it works faster. So for getting a first year plot up and going “most” admit liquid works faster

We have already disproved the “there isn’t enough calcium in 3 gallons of liquid lime.” That doesn’t matter. Fields have plenty of calcium. It is available calcium and agents that neutralize ph that matters.

For the average food plotter what is easier. Take someone that manages 2 acres of food plots total.

1. Get ag lime spread. I say this is impossible. I tried. No one will do it.

2. Spread ag or pellet lime themselves. If your soil report says you need 2 tons of lime per acre. That is 200 bags of pellet lime. No easy task for someone hauling the bags. Using an atv spreader that holds 100lbs at a time.

3. Using a liquid lime product at 2-4 gallons per acre. “Most” have an atv sprayer and already spray Gly. This is a natural thing that requires one more pass with sprayer than they normally do.

Yea, they might have to do it yearly, or maybe not. But one more pass with a sprayer every fall is way way way easier than spreading 200 bags of pellet lime every 3-5 years. No comparison.

So what most do is spread some pellet lime when they plant. Probably a 10th of what the soil test calls for. And they never ever catch up and get worse results than If they just used liquid lime every fall before planting.

If my reasoning is wrong tell me. I think because we have “always done it this way” is not smart and doesn’t make sense to me.

Look, I'm no soil scientist, in fact that is my weakness, but several well respected soil guys have looked at this over the years. It has been discussed many times here. If you are doing tiny plats and cost is no object, use whatever you like. I've found very few "quick fixes" and "magic beans" that work. To my way of thinking, food plot objectives can be met for a much lower cost with long term soil heath and objective. Few have soil so acidic that good deer crops like buckwheat and winter rye won't grow while soil pH is being adjusted.

In any case, I wish the OP the best of luck with his plot!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Nightvision]

Your comments on ease of use and faster absorption is why I have chosen to go with a liquid. As I mentioned, I'm creating a small (<3000sq ft) food plot in a very secluded area on my property. As of a week ago, I do have a four wheeler now so work has gotten a little easier but I couldn't imagine having to shuttle hundreds of bags of pelletized lime back into this area when I can take my 4 gallon backpack sprayer in there much more easily. Yes, I realize I may have to do this multiple times but that's still more achievable than shuttling a ton or more of pelletized lime back into the area where I'm making the food plot. Plus, I like the idea of working "faster" is another attribute that drew me to using liquid.

In the end, if the particular plan of attack doesn't work, I'll make adjustments and try again in the spring. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

On a plot that’s that small it wouldn’t be hundreds of bags. 250lbs or 5 bags would be about 2 tons to the acre.

 

[khizzle]

This is last post on this. Not trying to change your mind. Just getting my thoughts out.

Even the people that are anti liquid lime say it works faster. So for getting a first year plot up and going “most” admit liquid works faster

We have already disproved the “there isn’t enough calcium in 3 gallons of liquid lime.” That doesn’t matter. Fields have plenty of calcium. It is available calcium and agents that neutralize ph that matters.

For the average food plotter what is easier. Take someone that manages 2 acres of food plots total.

1. Get ag lime spread. I say this is impossible. I tried. No one will do it.

2. Spread ag or pellet lime themselves. If your soil report says you need 2 tons of lime per acre. That is 200 bags of pellet lime. No easy task for someone hauling the bags. Using an atv spreader that holds 100lbs at a time.

3. Using a liquid lime product at 2-4 gallons per acre. “Most” have an atv sprayer and already spray Gly. This is a natural thing that requires one more pass with sprayer than they normally do.

Yea, they might have to do it yearly, or maybe not. But one more pass with a sprayer every fall is way way way easier than spreading 200 bags of pellet lime every 3-5 years. No comparison.

So what most do is spread some pellet lime when they plant. Probably a 10th of what the soil test calls for. And they never ever catch up and get worse results than If they just used liquid lime every fall before planting.

If my reasoning is wrong tell me. I think because we have “always done it this way” is not smart and doesn’t make sense to me.

I might need to do liquid lime this year (my first) until I find a better solution. It seems some brands may be better than others but I’m not sure I would recognize which is which. I have someone kinda local that is a super lime plus dealer. He is telling me I only need a gallon per acre but my soil test called for 2 tons / acre. Any other brand recommendations?

 

[omicron1792]

I might need to do liquid lime this year (my first) until I find a better solution. It seems some brands may be better than others but I’m not sure I would recognize which is which. I have someone kinda local that is a super lime plus dealer. He is telling me I only need a gallon per acre but my soil test called for 2 tons / acre. Any other brand recommendations?

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www.agritecint.com

Also I’ve had good success with plotstart. But the top product is the best out there.

You can use 3-5 gallons/acre in 20-25 gallons of water.

 

[TreeDaddy]

This is last post on this. Not trying to change your mind. Just getting my thoughts out.

Even the people that are anti liquid lime say it works faster. So for getting a first year plot up and going “most” admit liquid works faster

We have already disproved the “there isn’t enough calcium in 3 gallons of liquid lime.” That doesn’t matter. Fields have plenty of calcium. It is available calcium and agents that neutralize ph that matters.

For the average food plotter what is easier. Take someone that manages 2 acres of food plots total.

1. Get ag lime spread. I say this is impossible. I tried. No one will do it.

2. Spread ag or pellet lime themselves. If your soil report says you need 2 tons of lime per acre. That is 200 bags of pellet lime. No easy task for someone hauling the bags. Using an atv spreader that holds 100lbs at a time.

3. Using a liquid lime product at 2-4 gallons per acre. “Most” have an atv sprayer and already spray Gly. This is a natural thing that requires one more pass with sprayer than they normally do.

Yea, they might have to do it yearly, or maybe not. But one more pass with a sprayer every fall is way way way easier than spreading 200 bags of pellet lime every 3-5 years. No comparison.

So what most do is spread some pellet lime when they plant. Probably a 10th of what the soil test calls for. And they never ever catch up and get worse results than If they just used liquid lime every fall before planting.

If my reasoning is wrong tell me. I think because we have “always done it this way” is not smart and doesn’t make sense to me.

A provocative and thoughtful analysis

"Always done it this way" are the last words of many a dying paradigm/analysis

I would love to hear Farmer Dan comment

bill

 

[TreeDaddy]

meant to say dying paradigm/ideology

bill

 

[FarmerDan]

A provocative and thoughtful analysis

"Always done it this way" are the last words of many a dying paradigm/analysis

I would love to hear Farmer Dan comment

bill

Oh boy! Wow! I haven't posted since the '23 Valentine's Day member purge. It disappointed me.

To the question. I think there was a lot of good thinking here on the subject. Many different methods lead to acceptable outcomes. Personally, I have no place for liquids. I would contend an equal weight of ag lime would provide a couple orders of magnitude more benefit than a liquid. It takes the same effort to carry 50lbs of liquid as it does 50lbs of dry material. But, its hard to spray dry lime!

One of the myths I think we need to examine (again) is the idea that an application of ag lime takes a long time to provide any benefit. If you read the research, soil chemistry begins changing within days of application of dry lime. and that change provides a substantial boost to the crop. Yes, it is true the final boost in pH takes months. But there's a lot of benefit derived within weeks. The law of diminishing returns ("S" curve) explains it wonderfully. Liquids tend to exhibit the "^" curve. So, for sake of argument I'd propose that, at the end of a growing season a crop that needed Ca and/or pH modification will yield the same regardless of source Ca.

In my thinking there is no soil chemistry paradigm shift. The crop inputs business is one of commodities. There's this ageless hope to differentiate products, to provide value (and hence, profits!) above that of the commodity. Some values are real. Others are imagined. Liquids have a place at the right place at the right time. For food plots, any way I twist it, I can't see the value given the cost.

The objective of my contrived graph below is provided an illustration. It requires some abstract thinking. Think of liquid Ca as the orange line and blue dry ag lime. I hope I'm addressing the question? The time period is made-up. Could be anything -days, weeks, months, years. The benefit is whatever you want it to be.

 

[omicron1792]

Oh boy! Wow! I haven't posted since the '23 Valentine's Day member purge. It disappointed me.

To the question. I think there was a lot of good thinking here on the subject. Many different methods lead to acceptable outcomes. Personally, I have no place for liquids. I would contend an equal weight of ag lime would provide a couple orders of magnitude more benefit than a liquid. It takes the same effort to carry 50lbs of liquid as it does 50lbs of dry material. But, its hard to spray dry lime!

One of the myths I think we need to examine (again) is the idea that an application of ag lime takes a long time to provide any benefit. If you read the research, soil chemistry begins changing within days of application of dry lime. and that change provides a substantial boost to the crop. Yes, it is true the final boost in pH takes months. But there's a lot of benefit derived within weeks. The law of diminishing returns ("S" curve) explains it wonderfully. Liquids tend to exhibit the "^" curve. So, for sake of argument I'd propose that, at the end of a growing season a crop that needed Ca and/or pH modification will yield the same regardless of source Ca.

In my thinking there is no soil chemistry paradigm shift. The crop inputs business is one of commodities. There's this ageless hope to differentiate products, to provide value (and hence, profits!) above that of the commodity. Some values are real. Others are imagined. Liquids have a place at the right place at the right time. For food plots, any way I twist it, I can't see the value given the cost.

The objective of my contrived graph below is provided an illustration. It requires some abstract thinking. Think of liquid Ca as the orange line and blue dry ag lime. I hope I'm addressing the question? The time period is made-up. Could be anything -days, weeks, months, years. The benefit is whatever you want it to be.

View attachment 52187

Thanks for your contributions to this board!

I will say, I think your analysis strengthened my idea that small food plotters should use liquid lime.

Lime added to a field, whether ag, pellet, or liquid has an early change to chemistry of the dirt. That is what I’m looking for in my analysis. You confirmed that above.

If I owned 2000 acres of cropland that paid my bills, I’m amending it with ag line at soil test recs, and keeping it there based on repeated soil tests. Period. Hard stop.

But that’s not what we are talking about. We are saying for a small food plotter with 2 acres they plant, what is “best for them?” Let’s re-examine the options again.

1. Use ag line. Their soil test says they have a ph of 4.6 and to add 2.5 tons of ag lime per acre. How and the world are they gonna do that? Call the coop. They will laugh ag you. Zero chance they come spread that. Have the next door farmer do it? I say do it, but I would say 98% of people we are talking about do not have a next door farmer to do that.

2. Use pellet lime. Thats a real option, and what most people do. I think we all agree that pellet lime doesn’t work better than ag lime. The idea that it takes less pellet lime isn’t backed by science. It’s what is said to make people feel better about spreading less lime. For our 2 acre food plotter above with an atv and hand spreader it would take 200 bags of 50lb pellet lime. And most come in 40lb bags. I think it is about the most stupid thing in the world to break your back spreading that much pellet lime for a food plot. And I would say is probably impossible for most.

So, most out out 10 or maybe 20 bags, say they will do that every time they plant, and probably don’t and throw some out every couple of years. Basically having minimal impact on what they are doing.

3. Use liquid lime. They can buy 2 jugs of plot start and put out once, maybe twice a season when they plant. Most have a sprayer, either backpack or atv. It is extra work, but not back breaking by any means. If done as part of regenerative ag they might do like the pellet example. Do it the first time and say they will do it again but don’t.

They get a quick change for the positive. Their crops grow Better they season. They get increased OM, which makes the soil biology better. They hold more moisture in the soil, and the next and next crops do better without adding more lime and probably get improved soil ph over time with the microbes in the soil working.

Again, people against always go back to big ag. But that is not the example we should look at. Always compare to the 2 acre weekend food plotter.

Cost in this scenario is negligible and most likely the same or less than guy using pellet lime.

 

[FarmerDan]

Thanks for your contributions to this board!

I will say, I think your analysis strengthened my idea that small food plotters should use liquid lime.

Lime added to a field, whether ag, pellet, or liquid has an early change to chemistry of the dirt. That is what I’m looking for in my analysis. You confirmed that above.

If I owned 2000 acres of cropland that paid my bills, I’m amending it with ag line at soil test recs, and keeping it there based on repeated soil tests. Period. Hard stop.

But that’s not what we are talking about. We are saying for a small food plotter with 2 acres they plant, what is “best for them?” Let’s re-examine the options again.

1. Use ag line. Their soil test says they have a ph of 4.6 and to add 2.5 tons of ag lime per acre. How and the world are they gonna do that? Call the coop. They will laugh ag you. Zero chance they come spread that. Have the next door farmer do it? I say do it, but I would say 98% of people we are talking about do not have a next door farmer to do that.

2. Use pellet lime. Thats a real option, and what most people do. I think we all agree that pellet lime doesn’t work better than ag lime. The idea that it takes less pellet lime isn’t backed by science. It’s what is said to make people feel better about spreading less lime. For our 2 acre food plotter above with an atv and hand spreader it would take 200 bags of 50lb pellet lime. And most come in 40lb bags. I think it is about the most stupid thing in the world to break your back spreading that much pellet lime for a food plot. And I would say is probably impossible for most.

So, most out out 10 or maybe 20 bags, say they will do that every time they plant, and probably don’t and throw some out every couple of years. Basically having minimal impact on what they are doing.

3. Use liquid lime. They can buy 2 jugs of plot start and put out once, maybe twice a season when they plant. Most have a sprayer, either backpack or atv. It is extra work, but not back breaking by any means. If done as part of regenerative ag they might do like the pellet example. Do it the first time and say they will do it again but don’t.

They get a quick change for the positive. Their crops grow Better they season. They get increased OM, which makes the soil biology better. They hold more moisture in the soil, and the next and next crops do better without adding more lime and probably get improved soil ph over time with the microbes in the soil working.

Again, people against always go back to big ag. But that is not the example we should look at. Always compare to the 2 acre weekend food plotter.

Cost in this scenario is negligible and most likely the same or less than guy using pellet lime.

A thoughtful and well written response Omicron! Those are two factors that amaze me about all who participate on this board. To my way of thinking - thinking and then clearly presenting those thoughts are most difficult. Few do both with any talent and to find so many here is a testament to knowledge and dedication. One of the conundrums we wrestle are the number of rabbit holes we go down in search of the last ounce of intelligence(?) about a subject.

The subject of Ca and lime and soil and plant response is in one (and many) of those rabbit holes. I'm going to jump in but will try not go very deep.

Here we are in a "gly" thread discussing, once again, soil pH and the effort to change it. Why? Why change soil pH? It's because we have found that certain plants do better (it isn't always yield) at different soil pHs. Some are viable in a narrow range while others do quite well in a broad range. Why? It's complicated and for food plotting it isn't worth a whole lot of discussion. I have a deep rabbit hole on the subject. I'm trying to avoid going there!

In my post immediate to this one I said I have no place for liquid forms of Ca. Why? Because it provides only a small benefit for the cost. The subject of cost is down another hole but not today. At whatever cost what does a plant need to, 1) simply grow and then, 2) to prosper? We all know, right? Food, water, and air. Most all of these three needs are supplied, at least partially, by "soil-as-a-container" where the plant roots are busy mining for the elements needed for survival and growth. I feel myself slipping deeper into the hole!

Here's the thing. A soil with a low pH probably (probably - soil composition is in another rabbit hole) has a poor structure - or least one that can be improved. Applications of dry ag lime, calcitic or dolomitic, will improve (perhaps marginally but importantly) long-term structure, availability of other macro nutrients, and supply of Ca or/and Mg over a long period of time. While liquid Ca will do some of that, it's major benefit is to immediately supply freely available Ca. It will not persist and the quantity of elements supplied by it is so low it's impossible for any soil structure change. I would contend the greater the plant response to application of liquid Ca the more the soil needs amended with applications of ag lime in dry form in adequate quantities to achieve the desired soil structure and content change.

My position is this - Liquid is NOT a substitute for dry, but rather a complement to it. Dry applications provide benefit for years while liquid provides a comparatively small benefit once.

But this is food plotting! Go forth and have fun!



There's more but I'm slipping into that damn hole!

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I am with Farmer Dan on this. Unless you need a certain crop to grow this year, such as a hunting lease for 1 year, I see no need to force a crop to grow in a field that isnt ready for it. I would take the long road, and plant something that will grow now, in the lower ph, and spread dry lime.

Now if you are in it for the long haul, and really want to force plant something this year, start with the dry, then spray the wet stuff on top, best of both worlds. But you can attract plenty of deer with clover, winter rye, oats, wheat, and many other crops that grow decent in lower ph. Then after a few years, plant your radish, turnips, beets, soy beans, corn, etc...

Omicron, I felt what you were stepping in with the soil om, but you can get that from the weeds that were growing in it before it became a food plot. In my area bracken ferns take over everything with low ph, but they do add a lot of om to the soils.

 

[Wild Thing]

A thoughtful and well written response Omicron! Those are two factors that amaze me about all who participate on this board. To my way of thinking - thinking and then clearly presenting those thoughts are most difficult. Few do both with any talent and to find so many here is a testament to knowledge and dedication. One of the conundrums we wrestle are the number of rabbit holes we go down in search of the last ounce of intelligence(?) about a subject.

The subject of Ca and lime and soil and plant response is in one (and many) of those rabbit holes. I'm going to jump in but will try not go very deep.

Here we are in a "gly" thread discussing, once again, soil pH and the effort to change it. Why? Why change soil pH? It's because we have found that certain plants do better (it isn't always yield) at different soil pHs. Some are viable in a narrow range while others do quite well in a broad range. Why? It's complicated and for food plotting it isn't worth a whole lot of discussion. I have a deep rabbit hole on the subject. I'm trying to avoid going there!

In my post immediate to this one I said I have no place for liquid forms of Ca. Why? Because it provides only a small benefit for the cost. The subject of cost is down another hole but not today. At whatever cost what does a plant need to, 1) simply grow and then, 2) to prosper? We all know, right? Food, water, and air. Most all of these three needs are supplied, at least partially, by "soil-as-a-container" where the plant roots are busy mining for the elements needed for survival and growth. I feel myself slipping deeper into the hole!

Here's the thing. A soil with a low pH probably (probably - soil composition is in another rabbit hole) has a poor structure - or least one that can be improved. Applications of dry ag lime, calcitic or dolomitic, will improve (perhaps marginally but importantly) long-term structure, availability of other macro nutrients, and supply of Ca or/and Mg over a long period of time. While liquid Ca will do some of that, it's major benefit is to immediately supply freely available Ca. It will not persist and the quantity of elements supplied by it is so low it's impossible for any soil structure change. I would contend the greater the plant response to application of liquid Ca the more the soil needs amended with applications of ag lime in dry form in adequate quantities to achieve the desired soil structure and content change.

My position is this - Liquid is NOT a substitute for dry, but rather a complement to it. Dry applications provide benefit for years while liquid provides a comparatively small benefit once.

But this is food plotting! Go forth and have fun!



There's more but I'm slipping into that damn hole!

"A thoughtful and well written response Omicron!"....er...@FarmerDan as well...and I wholeheartedly agree.