G&H Farms

[SwampCat]

I went to look back at the research done at Purdue and UT in this document:

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-548-W.pdf

This is what was written about thinning NWSG stands:

"Herbicides to thin rank native grasses. Various herbicides can
be used to effectively thin native grasses and increase forbs.
However, grass-selective herbicides do not reduce native grasses
enough to elicit an increase in forbs and a change in composition.
Broad-spectrum and broad-spectrum selective herbicides (e.g.,
glyphosate and imazapyr) effectively thin native grasses and
increase forbs after only one application. Herbicides to reduce
native grasses are most effective when applied in late spring or
early summer (May–June) when grasses are 18–24 inches tall and
prior to flowering, but they also may be applied later in the
summer (August–September) prior to grass senescence. If
applied in late summer, mowing or burning the stand early in
August and allowing at least 3 weeks for native grasses to regrow
may increase the effectiveness of the treatment.
We recommend imazapyr (Arsenal®, 48 oz/ac) instead of
glyphosate if legumes or brambles are present, because most
legumes and brambles are relatively tolerant of imazapyr.
However, glyphosate (2 qt/ac) should be used when sericea
lespedeza is present, because imazapyr does not control sericea
lespedeza. Glyphosate also can be used when the stand has few if
any forbs. Burning fields after treatment is recommended to
reduce thatch and stimulate the seedbank. If sprayed in May or
June, the stand can be burned in July or August to stimulate
germination of forbs and grasses before fall."

The field with the johnson grass was planted a year ago with a pollinator mix and I was worried that gly might adversely affect any of the plants from that previous planting. I have another slightly larger field I am going to spray with gly. I have disked the nwsg before but did not see much improvement. The other field I am going to spray has a lot of two ft tall persimmon and ash I also hope to set back.

Thanks for the info!

 

[BenAllgood]

The field with the johnson grass was planted a year ago with a pollinator mix and I was worried that gly might adversely affect any of the plants from that previous planting. I have another slightly larger field I am going to spray with gly. I have disked the nwsg before but did not see much improvement. The other field I am going to spray has a lot of two ft tall persimmon and ash I also hope to set back.

Thanks for the info!

Yeah, in your case, the imazapyr they recommend may be better. I'd look at your species mix in your planting to see if they're tolerant of imazapyr or not though. They also mention some non-chemical methods in that pamphlet. I know I'm going to have to thin my grasses before long too, so I'll be following along your progress.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

It’s counterintuitive to me that Cleth wouldn’t thin out grasses in a native field to promote forbs. I have a 2 acre plot that I’m trying to reduce grasses for quail. I’ve sprayed twice this spring with gly and disced. I was planning on spraying cleth next week to knock back the grasses that are starting.

 

[BenAllgood]

It’s counterintuitive to me that Cleth wouldn’t thin out grasses in a native field to promote forbs. I have a 2 acre plot that I’m trying to reduce grasses for quail. I’ve sprayed twice this spring with gly and disced. I was planning on spraying cleth next week to knock back the grasses that are starting.

It does thin them. Harper and Brooke's study just showed it wasn't AS good as gly or imazapyr.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

It does thin them. Harper and Brooke's study just showed it wasn't AS good as gly or imazapyr.

View attachment 65257

I just worry gly is going to set everything back and not achieve the goal of a mostly forb dominant field

 

[BenAllgood]

I just worry gly is going to set everything back and not achieve the goal of a mostly forb dominant field

I wouldn't use gly on a stand that has a good number of forbs already present. In that case, I'd go with imazapyr or cleth. In my stand, I've seen an explosion of NWSGs that I'd have a hard time spraying areas and hitting the forbs. In mine, my NWSG component is high, and I only planted a low, low rate of NWSG. They were very aggressive.

 

[SwampCat]

As you can see in my second picture above, the nwsg component is very high and it came in by itself over about ten years after killing out the fescue. I dont think I would hurt much by spraying gly

 

[SwampCat]

I just worry gly is going to set everything back and not achieve the goal of a mostly forb dominant field

This trail was sprayed with gly about AUG last year. It had been bush hogged and was 18” tall at time of spraying. It was combo of primarily johnson grass and little bluestem. Lot of white sweet clover in the second picture

 

[SwampCat]

a little pork for breakfast. I can be there from the house in 15 min. When I got down there, they were gone. Several deer feeding on clover and some cattle egrets hunting crawdads. Stood there for a minute to see if I could hear them because I knew I must have just missed them. Was watching the deer and heard a hog grunt off to my left and this 140 lber stepped out in the food plot, alone. Since it was daylight, I took the .300 BO and 20 round mag in case I needed more firepower. Shot this hog at least three times. The .300 BO is not a .450 Bushmaster when it comes to hogs. We have killed somewhere between 15 and 20 hogs in the last couple months and none has had even a tip of a tooth outside the lip. None have been real big, but none of these hogs have had a tooth as big as my dog’s canines. There has been hogs in this food plot all spring and still no rooting other than under feeder. They do graze the clover. Often deer and turkey in the food plot when hogs are there. Turkey will even feed with them

 

[SwampCat]

This is my pollinator field two weeks after spraying 10 oz per acre cleth with same amount crop oil. Looks like a good kill going on johnson grass. Can actually see a lot of blooming forbs in the jg now. There is some nwsg in this four acre field - I doubt any herbicide reached it. I am sure it will take another application.



this is a field of primarily nwsg I bush hogged in feb and sprayed two weeks ago with 10 oz cleth and same coc. Johnson grass again show damage early on. Not sure the nwsg is going to be affected. But, I know cleth works slow



This is another field I sprayed a week ago with 2 qts 41% gly per acre. It is showing a good response by both jg and nwsg. Milkweed may pull through - which is ok. The persimmon, honey locust, and green ash are not showing much damage

My opinion - have not proved this out - you could apply about 5 oz per acre cleth and not affect your nwsg if desired. I am looking to reduce my nwsg component - not sure that is going to happen with cleth