Foodplot Order of Operations

[Thomasc19]

I know there's more than a thousand ways to skin a cat, but I was looking to see if anyone has advice.

I'm going to be prepping foodplots this weekend, below is my anticipated foodplot mix:

Winter Rye: 50lbs/acre
Oats: 20lbs/acre
Ladino Clover: 5lbs/acre
Medium Red Clover: 10lbs/acre
Chicory: 4lbs/acre

The foodplots right now have been fallow since last fall-I have really high deer density so they hammer these plots and a lot of weeds come up. Last year I sprayed and drilled, but that seemed to have poor success-I'm guessing the carpeting of the grasses was too thick for seed-soil contact.

I have a sprayer, rototiller, and a genesis no-till drill to put to work. Does anyone have advice for their ideal order of operations? Rototill, Spray, Drill? Just spray and drill? Spray burn then drill?

I'll be taking soil tests this weekend as well to get the right fertilizer and lyme

Thank you

 

[SD51555]

Where are you located and what weeds are out there now?


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[Thomasc19]

Where are you located and what weeds are out there now?


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Northeast PA, healthy mix of broadleaf and grass weeds - wish I could identify them better

 

[SD51555]

If you’re gonna work it up or spray next year, just work it up and plant. If not, that’s a different conversation.


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[SwampCat]

You might try something you can spray while growng - wheat/rye and clover. Or just grains or roundup ready crops. Maybe you can have a crop and beat the weeds down a little bit

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Our camp is in NC Pa. - so not far away. In fields where we had a lot of grasses & weeds, we sprayed gly to kill as much as possible first. Then after a few days for the gly to get into the weeds & grasses, we'd disc the ground, broadcast our seeds, then drag or cultipack. We got good results with that sequence. FWIW - depending on your available time schedule.

 

[Thomasc19]

Our camp is in NC Pa. - so not far away. In fields where we had a lot of grasses & weeds, we sprayed gly to kill as much as possible first. Then after a few days for the gly to get into the weeds & grasses, we'd disc the ground, broadcast our seeds, then drag or cultipack. We got good results with that sequence. FWIW - depending on your available time schedule.

Any issue with discing bringing up more weed seeds after already spraying?

 

[RGrizzzz]

Any issue with discing bringing up more weed seeds after already spraying?

Yes, you will bring up weed seed with soil disturbance. Having been down this road, with a Genesis 3, I'd suggest tilling once, to get rid of the thatch if it's thick, and then planting. If you're doing it all this weekend, don't bother spraying. If you have several weekends, spray first and wait a week before you till. When I first started with the Genesis, some plots had a good layer of living grass, and the drill didn't get even depth, so that's why I think you should till it once. It will also help to level out the plots for the drilling going forward.

It might be a little early for rye. If you can, up the oats/acre and then drill some rye in a few weeks.

 

[Native Hunter]

If I had a drill, I would spray and drill - and do nothing else.

 

[bigboreblr]

deeper you rototill, the more weed seeds comes up. Just deep enough to make a seed bed, or maybe see 1/2 to 3/4's soil. Rototill, wait 2 weeks, then spray lighter gly mix if weeds come up and drill the next day. Some of the existing weeds / grasses will survive rototilling. guess like 25% or so. Spraying a week or two later kills the survivors and new shoots.

In deeper weeds, check the disc openers and press wheels for getting bound up with weeds, also keep an eye on the seed boxes making sure seed bot around the drill didn't get clogged up with weeds.

Your rototiller go in forward and reverse rotation. That might get bogged down with weeds too. You can change rotation to clean. Thinking reverse rotation might be cleaner on the tines.

Maybe with alot of thatch, put the discs down a bit deeper.

Assuming the genesis only has 1 seed box. IF you need to go deeper, d small grains only and broadcast the small seeds. I really like the solo 421 for clover seeds. Could wait for frost seeding. Not sure if chicory like frost seeding or not. Most clovers do, the ones you mentioned do.

Jut oats and rye alone will be a great fall foodplot. IF you think some wont survive the thatch, or deer pressure is quite high, bring the seed rate up. like 70 rye 30 oats.

Seeding, then spraying is an option too. Assuming the rototiller is a 3pt tractor one, you can put the pto in nuetral or in forward rotation and either float it in the nuetral or set it in an inch or so deep to act like a cultipacker before seeding.

Run the drll through your weeds, and look where the seeds are. See them in soil and deep enough, your good. See them too shallow or deep, adjust.

 

[davidhelmly]

If I had a drill, I would spray and drill - and do nothing else.

That is the ticket for minimizing weeds.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Any issue with discing bringing up more weed seeds after already spraying?

Some, but not out of control. I've read that some weed seeds can remain viable in the seed bank for decades, so we'll get some weeds no matter what we do. We also don't try to make magazine cover, perfect plots. Some of the weeds are natural food for deer anyway. We try to get decent, fairly weed-free plots, but we accept some weeds. Grasses are more of a pain, so we spray to eliminate as much grass as we can.

If we had a drill, we'd be doing what Native Hunter said, above.

 

[swat1018]

Don't know about the Genesis, but with my GP, I would drill and spray, or spray and drill, whichever. If you are in real heavy deer country, I would up the rye rate for sure. I do 100# routinely.

 

[Foggy47]

Late to this party....but I'd spray with 2 qt/Gly to the acre.....and follow with the no till drill. Seed it all about 1/4" and do a rain dance. No point in tilling to remove moisture in your soil....IMO.

Also, there is some evidence that Gly sprayed on new seeds can reduce germination (according to John Komp). I'd try not to spray chemicals directly on seeds if you have a choice.....but would not worry excessively if you did it the other way around.....as long as it was within a day or so. Some seeds germinate pretty quickly. Why risk it?

I dont think I have used my tiller since buying my drill. Also not a field cultivator as well.....and I do not think I have used my disk. Gonna have a 'chinery sale next year. I got stuff that don't get used anymore.

 

[SD51555]

Late to this party....but I'd spray with 2 qt/Gly to the acre.....and follow with the no till drill. Seed it all about 1/4" and do a rain dance. No point in tilling to remove moisture in your soil....IMO.

Also, there is some evidence that Gly sprayed on new seeds can reduce germination (according to John Komp). I'd try not to spray chemicals directly on seeds if you have a choice.....but would not worry excessively if you did it the other way around.....as long as it was within a day or so. Some seeds germinate pretty quickly. Why risk it?

I dont think I have used my tiller since buying my drill. Also not a field cultivator as well.....and I do not think I have used my disk. Gonna have a 'chinery sale next year. I got stuff that don't get used anymore.

We can redirect those funds into a Cat 320 with a thumb.


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[bigboreblr]

Thomas still looking at this thread?

Ill ask my brother in law what he seeds at when he drills. He does commercial AG. He uses medium red and rye in foodplots with a case or great plains drill. Think the case is a 30ft 5500. He also hire aircraft to seed rye into standing soybeans.

You might want to do some grass management. Late srpign clethodim spray, will kil the rye too. Then some sort of summer crop that you can kill grass in. Not sure how buckheat responds to clethodim. Crop oil needed can be damaging to leaves. Could do a heavy crop of medium red and let it stand for 2 years. Never tried that myself, but need to do some sedge management.

IF you got decent soil, fertilizer might not be needed. Like most grains and legumes, pottasium is welcomed. Old time farming use to spread equal parts oats and potash in the field. IF your soil fertility is on the low side, using fertilizer for a few years can be a good idea. But, once the soil has a decent amount of organic mater and bacteria activity, you can stop using fertilizer and in some case tillage. Sandy soil rarely suffers from bad compaction issues, especially when frost heaves can go deeper in colder climates. Thats what I have in the adirondacks. But, at home I got heavy clay soil, but has great organic matter around 5%. It will probably permant spti out ok crops of smaill grains. But, every few year it need to be loosened.

The need for biomass or lbs / acre may or may not be high. High deer populations couple with minmal foodplot space and when you need to compete with local AG crops for deer interest, you might need to till more often.

For year I have done the grains, brassica, and clovers, add add extra clover. After about 3 years it got too weedy and went back to it again,

Spay / drill..... A few members on here have spray head attached to the back of their no-till seeders. You may be able to add extra AMS to your gly spray for a starter fertilizer boost.

Also, what kind of seeder do you have. Any added options, extra seed boxes, row cleaner, press wheel options.