All the time I read about someone, especially in the Midwest, killing 8.5 yr old deer with big antlers. For the most part, our average bucks see declining antlers after they are 5.5 yrs old. Does increasing nutrition increase the lifespan of larger antlers on your bucks. If you fed protein pellets in the spring - would your bucks continue to grow larger sets of antlers later on in life?
Does Nutrition Increase Lifespan of Bigger Antlers?
- Thread starter SwampCat
- Start date
bigbendmarine
5 year old buck +
SwampCat, more time goes by and I'm trying to track individual bucks the more I think the same may be true of my place in North Florida. Have really nice bone on some of my bucks as FL goes, but they seem to peak early as tine height and width goes, though main beam mass does look thicker on some older bucks (at the cost of tine height and width though). Definitely be interested to hear what others say.
Boll Weevil
5 year old buck +
Deer in my area tend to top out antler-wise at 6.5-7.5 but their bodies definitely keep growing. We've killed some absolute tanks that we've got some history with so have seen the ups and downs of antler growth.
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
It is very rare in my area to ever see a buck "on it's way down" Most never see 4 let alone 8. There has been some 7 y/o bucks that I had history with shot and it was their biggest rack to date. We have a great mix between ag and cover. Lots of alfalfa and corn with some beans mixed in.
SW TN - ag ground?
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I would guess that nutrition plays a role but it is not the only factor. When you think about the primary purpose of antlers (sexual adornment), they are really saying that I am fit and healthy enough to expend this much energy on growing antlers. The formula is basically trying to maximize the amount of genetic material passed on to future generations. When a buck is young, it is spending a lot of energy growing and has less to put into antler development. Once growth is done and it only has to maintain body size, it can afford to put more energy into antlers. In those earlier years, the thinking goes that if it can produce larger antlers sooner, it will have more opportunity to pass on genetic material. That presumes that doe availability is a limiting factor. The longer a buck lives, the more opportunity for injury and disease to set in. These are energy drains. At some point the evolutionary strategy changes from having more sex now before I'm shot or hit by a car, to having less sex now and living longer so I can have more over my life time. (These are obviously not conscious thoughts but an underlying evolutionary strategy). During these later years, less energy goes into antler development and we say a buck is on the decline.
I'm sure nutrition plays a role, but it may or may not be the limiting factor. Other factors like disease prevalence, sex ratios, and overall deer numbers are also likely factors. There are probably other factors involved like the personality of individual deer. Some buck may stay more local and succeed through dominance while others may range further and succeed by being more sneaky.
While I believe we can say with some confidence that nutrition can play a role at what age buck antler size begins to decline, I don't think we can necessarily extrapolate to saying with confidence that feeding protein pellets in the spring will change this age.
Thanks,
Jack
I'm sure nutrition plays a role, but it may or may not be the limiting factor. Other factors like disease prevalence, sex ratios, and overall deer numbers are also likely factors. There are probably other factors involved like the personality of individual deer. Some buck may stay more local and succeed through dominance while others may range further and succeed by being more sneaky.
While I believe we can say with some confidence that nutrition can play a role at what age buck antler size begins to decline, I don't think we can necessarily extrapolate to saying with confidence that feeding protein pellets in the spring will change this age.
Thanks,
Jack
But would you agree that deer living in areas with high quality soils and ag tend to produce large antlers later in life than deer living in areas of poor nutrition - in general. We have piney woods areas in my state where deer antlers decline after 5.5 yrs and 50 miles away, in the Delta/ag areas - maintain larger antlers later in life. Yes, there are all kinds of things that could affect this - but I am speaking in general. Feeding protein pellets WILL produce larger antlers - all things being equal. Why would it not be feasible to think a higher protein food source could prolong peak antler growth in deer because they are that much healthier?
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Dirt is the key when it comes to nutrition. The fertility of the underlying soils make it into deer 100%. With both food plots and supplemental feeding, only a small percentage make it into deer. You can also get disease spread issues with concentrated food. When it comes to free ranging deer, I think the best we can do is to fill the gaps when nature is stingy, but the baseline is set by the fertility of the underlying soil. As I said, nutrition clearly plays a role. We can say that with pretty high confidence. I don't think we can extrapolate that to saying feeding protein pellets will produce larger antlers in free ranging deer or extend the age at which antler size begins to decline. I'm not saying that it can't have a positive effect in any case. I'm just saying that there are other factors involved. It is not a direct cause and effect.
Thanks,
jack
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Anecdotal evidence only, no proof or even enough statistically to be worth a darn... but I know a guy who has shot a hand full of KS deer that were 8.5 or older. They were all free range with no feeders of any sort that he puts out (a neighbor could be feeding them though and he wouldn't know). He's had multiple year's history with each buck and says they were all on the down hill slide antler wise when he finally shot them. I think if you were to ask him he would say they typical peak for antlers around 6.5 - 7.5 yrs old here.
I think most of us who have been in this management business forever, get there are other factors involved.
Those of you who have feed protein supplement - and have already done everything humanly possible in the way of habitat management, food plots, etc - have you noticed an extended age at which your bucks maintain quality antlers as opposed to deer in surrounding areas not fed protein pellets?
I don't doubt that at all. I have read of many deer in the Midwest that maintain solid antler growth past 5.5 yrs old. That is what I would like to duplicate. I don't believe it is so much genetics, as nutrition. I know of local deer that were caught and kept in a pen and continued to produce large antlers later in life. They are the same genetic material as the deer outside the fence - but produced large antlers long after a free range buck. Yes, there are a number of factors that could have contributed to that - but nutrition is a glaring difference.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Where I live in KS there is some ag but it's mostly pasture, shrubs, and a few places with mature trees. I would venture to guess that the most reliable source of nutrition is native forbs. They hit bean fields, wheat fields, and acorns when and where they are available, but that does not compromise 365 days a year or 24hrs a day. I consistently see deer grazing in range settings (day and night), so my conclusion is that soil fertility outside of the plot is very important and also the weak link in my nutrition plan.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Here is a soil test I took in 2016 from native pasture when I broke it open for a food plot (actually did TnM instead of breaking it open).
I was impressed with the test considering it never had inputs added other than cattle grazing it. I bet it is better soil than a lot of the nation without amendments. With that said it is weak in the Phosphorus and Calcium departments, both of which I believe to be important for antler growth. This is why I've argued on here before that soil outside of plots need to be addressed to benefit the herd as much as possible. I have a diverse and healthy plant community, but it COULD be delivering better nutrition.
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I was impressed with the test considering it never had inputs added other than cattle grazing it. I bet it is better soil than a lot of the nation without amendments. With that said it is weak in the Phosphorus and Calcium departments, both of which I believe to be important for antler growth. This is why I've argued on here before that soil outside of plots need to be addressed to benefit the herd as much as possible. I have a diverse and healthy plant community, but it COULD be delivering better nutrition.
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Take hunter-killed stats with a grain of salt. Hunters usually have a certain size rack in mind before they shoot and the differences or lack thereof between age classes may well be a reflection of high grading the standing crop- the bucks with the best genetics and access to the best food are killed when they are younger and more susceptible, leaving smaller antlered deer in the same cohort to progress into the older age classes.
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To your original question the answer is yes! Nutrition is the key no matter however it is achieved. Soil plays a role but it is only one part and things can be grown even in poor soil that can exceed needs. Without question supplemental feeding can help bucks live longer and continue having better antlers later in life. The idea that it is a cause for disease is unproven and unsubstantiated when in fact there is a tremendous body of evidence proving just the opposite. I also firmly believe that food plots and supplemental feed can effect a significant portion of a deers diet and have a profound effect on age and quality.
I do believe there is anecdotal evidence that northern strain of deer peak out earlier than southern deer though I wonder if there are any managers of northern deer that are managing herds of deer on optimum nutrition and allowing bucks to die of old age. How else can there be an accurate comparative? I have watched countless bucks grow old and die both in La. and especially in the Rio Grande brush country. I have kept a video journal of many bucks from young age to late in life and can show the impact of nutrition based on annual habitat conditions. I had a 13 yr old grow his biggest rack topping 233" and 33" wide. I shot a 10 yr old I had video from the time he was 4 that had his best rack at 10 by a large measure. And I could go on.
From what I have seen, diet on a high quality diet in La. tend to get bigger up to 7-9 yrs old and in the brush country 7-10 though there are exceptions both ways.
SWampcat, if you are interested send me a pm with mailing info and I will send you a couple videos I've made over the years that show age progression of bucks with many getting quite old..
I do believe there is anecdotal evidence that northern strain of deer peak out earlier than southern deer though I wonder if there are any managers of northern deer that are managing herds of deer on optimum nutrition and allowing bucks to die of old age. How else can there be an accurate comparative? I have watched countless bucks grow old and die both in La. and especially in the Rio Grande brush country. I have kept a video journal of many bucks from young age to late in life and can show the impact of nutrition based on annual habitat conditions. I had a 13 yr old grow his biggest rack topping 233" and 33" wide. I shot a 10 yr old I had video from the time he was 4 that had his best rack at 10 by a large measure. And I could go on.
From what I have seen, diet on a high quality diet in La. tend to get bigger up to 7-9 yrs old and in the brush country 7-10 though there are exceptions both ways.
SWampcat, if you are interested send me a pm with mailing info and I will send you a couple videos I've made over the years that show age progression of bucks with many getting quite old..
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Take him up on it SwampCat! I believe the man knows what he's talking about through real life experience.
To add to my first post on here; The man who has shot several 8.5 and older bucks locally and has said that they were on the down hill slide may have been experiencing the effects of unusually dry or harsh conditions at the time, or simply beat-up deer (I know he has shot at least two buck that were blind in one eye). Like I said, purely anecdotal and not enough trials for conclusions.
To add to my first post on here; The man who has shot several 8.5 and older bucks locally and has said that they were on the down hill slide may have been experiencing the effects of unusually dry or harsh conditions at the time, or simply beat-up deer (I know he has shot at least two buck that were blind in one eye). Like I said, purely anecdotal and not enough trials for conclusions.
I will send you my info. This is the kind of information that interests me - from someone who has done it. Do you feel the deer on your place in LA tend to maintain larger antlers later in life than the general deer population in the area. I know that might be difficult to tell because not a whole lot of deer in LA live to 5.5 or older - but I think you would have a good feel for it. THanks.
Boll Weevil
5 year old buck +
Yes.
I’m located in north Texas in one of the archery only deer counties. I have owned my place for 9 years. During that time I have harvested a buck that I believe was 8 1/2 years old and know of several other bucks that were/are still increasing in antler size around that same age. At least in our area, it appears that if the deer can meet its nutritional needs, survive the hunting seasons and vehicles then they will continue to increase in antler size even when they are 7+ years of age.
