Do you remember it being colder

[West_Fork]

First it was "the earth is not actually warming".
Then it was "well, the earth is warming, but it was doing that anyways and humans aren't the cause".
Next it will become, "human's might be causing it but there is nothing we can do about it" or "it is too expensive to address now...spilt milk and all that".

People can debate the extent that human's are affecting our climate. Experimental models will try and predict to what extent that effect is having on the climate, and they will tend to get more accurate over time as more data are collected. In the meantime, instead of debating about what can be done from a public policy standpoint, we are having to spend time and energy debating if it is even happening. I don't think you have to be a climate alarmist and think the sky is falling or our kids' generations are permanently screwed because you acknowledge a near consensus among scientists. Healthy skepticism is a great thing. At this point, there are industries (and people running blogs/websites) that benefit from being counter to what the rest of the world thinks is going on.

This is an interesting post. I call it flipping the script coupled with projection.

There is no scientific consensus, and that is not how science works. That is how propaganda and gas lighting works.

As soon as someone insists that they have the one true science, you know they are practicing a religion. Science is very much all about questioning the current understanding and status quo. Otherwise, you end up throwing virgins in volcanoes believing the gods will make the weather nice.

This climate bullshit is one of the oldest games on the planet.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

CO2 driving climate change has been thoroughly debunked. Most in the sky is falling crowd don’t even believe that anymore.

It is a marker that lags behind the change. It’s like checking a lab at the doctor. It’s a sign of something, not the cause.

Should be easy enough to provide a source for that claim...And by source I mean from a peer-reviewed journal that has an impact factor of 1 or more. Should be easy enough, right?

The vast majority of published studies show CO2 concentrations rise before temperatures. I am not even sure this is debatable at this point. It is like saying rain is more likely on cloudy days than sunny days.

Global warming preceded by increasing carbon dioxide concentrations during the last deglaciation - Nature

A reconstruction of global surface temperature is used to show that deglacial temperature is correlated with and generally lags carbon dioxide concentration, a result that contributes to the explanation of the temperature change that occurred at the end of the most recent ice age.

www.nature.com

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Do you know how science works? Do you know how it works in reality? Every single one of those "thousands" of papers is based on the same three principle studies that are based on computer models and a poor understanding of climate. The only reason there are "thousands" of papers is because starting in the 1990's, there was a big push to direct all research funding towards anything co2. Mike had a soil study he was trying to get funded, something that would actually be of use to the world, and he had no luck. So Mike threw "co2" in the title and it magically got funded.

I have a B.S., M.S. and Ph.D. My PhD dissertation was in soil science and related to climate change. It had to do with soil carbon and nitrogen cycling in perennial grass systems. Ultimately, I measured soil carbon sequestration rates and greenhouse gas emissions coming from various management practices or cropping systems. I am either the first or second author on two peer-reviewed publications from this work. Yes, I am very familiar with how this science works.

 

[Telemark]

Should be easy enough to provide a source for that claim...And by source I mean from a peer-reviewed journal that has an impact factor of 1 or more. Should be easy enough, right?

The vast majority of published studies show CO2 concentrations rise before temperatures. I am not even sure this is debatable at this point. It is like saying rain is more likely on cloudy days than sunny days.

Global warming preceded by increasing carbon dioxide concentrations during the last deglaciation - Nature

A reconstruction of global surface temperature is used to show that deglacial temperature is correlated with and generally lags carbon dioxide concentration, a result that contributes to the explanation of the temperature change that occurred at the end of the most recent ice age.

www.nature.com

View attachment 72988

The most important word that you highlighted is "simulations". That's not science.

Here's the Vostok ice core graphs:

The Vostok Ice Core and the 14,000 Year CO2 Time Lag

A detailed analysis of temperature, CO2 and methane variations from the Vostok ice core is presented for the time interval 137,383 to 102,052 years ago. This captures the termination of the glaciat…

euanmearns.com

 

[Foggy47]

Do you have 2 separate friend groups, one in oz and one one MN?

I subscribe to two habitat sites, but also log onto Facebook where there are a few good pages I visit too. Very occasionally I still look at stuff posted on Iowa Whitetails and on the Michigan sites. Usually when googling for more info on some odd topic.

There is a good Facebook page on switchgrass (for example) and I suppose I have a dozen or so other pages I frequent at times. And I peruse Facebook marketplace at times too. Just bought a Vikings Jersey for my wife there....as we are going to the Vikings / Rams game at State Farm Stadium in Glendale on Monday Nite. SKOL.

The "food plot pages" at Facebook have too many newbies and "clowns" for me tho. Just too much chaff to sort thru there....as most just do not have the degree of knowledge or experience compared to a site such as this. No comparison....so I seldom look at those pages.

 

[omicron1792]

I mean in real life @Foggy47 Is it hard to have two separate places you live?

 

[Foggy47]

I mean in real life @Foggy47 Is it hard to have two separate places you live?

OH....I get it. Yeah to a degree we have some folks HERE in OZ that are from Minnesota....and we do stay somewhat connected with them here and in MN. But we do have other freinds that live here the year around. One thing about living in a 55 plus community.....is that they are from all over the country and mostly retired or near retirement. We stay in touch with our family and friends in MN via email, Skype and go home for Christmas and hunting. Also family (and some freinds) come out here for a winter trip occasionally. We stay connected in both places.

It's really easy to connect with people here tho.....through golf clubs and through our theatre, card clubs, music groups, craft groups such as woodworking and many more. The area we live in...is a gated community with it's own security force. It's got 6000 homes and about 10000 people. We got 3 golf courses and lots of amenities. Easy to connect with others.

I wish it was that easy back in MN. But they do not have the retirement communities like they have here or in FL. If you ever want to research these places.......check out the website "55 plus". I'm at Pebble Creek, which is built by Robson. They have about 8 locations I think.

 

[Foggy47]

OH....I get it. Yeah to a degree we have some folks HERE in OZ that are from Minnesota....and we do stay somewhat connected with them here and in MN. But we do have other freinds that live here the year around. One thing about living in a 55 plus community.....is that they are from all over the country and mostly retired or near retirement.

It's really easy to connect with people here tho.....through golf clubs and through our theatre, card clubs, music groups, craft groups such as woodworking and many more. The area we live in...is a gated community with it's own security force. It's got 6000 homes and about 10000 people. We got 3 golf courses and lots of amenities. Easy to connect with others.

I wish it was that easy back in MN. But they do not have the retirement communities like they have here or in FL. If you ever want to research these places.......check out the website "55 plus". I'm at Pebble Creek, which is built by Robson. They have about 8 locations I think.

We are getting "up there" in age now. We continue to consider selling our home in MN. It's too big and somewhat of a PITA to manage for us. It's also gotten pretty expensive for the use we get out of it (maintenance and taxes). If we find a better situation, I think we would move. Been downsizing some of our stuff for a few years now. Got rid of a few "excess" boats and some guns and lots more. Loading up my family with some of our excess......and selling down other stuff. I went from 7 watercraft to ONE! (canoe, jet skis, kayaks, fishing boat all gone). Now just have a pontoon. Our life is changing.

EDIT: Life here at the "retirement community" is like having a home in a resort. Pretty nice and simple life style. Yard work is all done by a landscape crew....and it's quite cheap. All other services are a fraction of the costs in MN. Low taxes too. Drive my golf cart on the streets inside the gates here. lol. I like it. I wish we could find a set-up like this in MN (where our familiy all lives). It's too hot here in summer for us to be here year around....and my deer property is still of interest to me....and good for my health....yadda yadda.

 

[Mozark]

I have a B.S., M.S. and Ph.D. My PhD dissertation was in soil science and related to climate change. It had to do with soil carbon and nitrogen cycling in perennial grass systems. Ultimately, I measured soil carbon sequestration rates and greenhouse gas emissions coming from various management practices or cropping systems. I am either the first or second author on two peer-reviewed publications from this work. Yes, I am very familiar with how this science works.

Hoyt,
Do you support the Younger Dreyas theory?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Nobody is going to admit they recall the pleasantly average winter of '69.

I remember a New Year's eve with a foot of snow on the ground - but the temp was 62 degrees that night. Might have been around 1969. It was definitely in the 1960's. The fog it created was spooky thick. But that was an odd occurrence.

 

[West_Fork]

Should be easy enough to provide a source for that claim...And by source I mean from a peer-reviewed journal that has an impact factor of 1 or more. Should be easy enough, right?

The vast majority of published studies show CO2 concentrations rise before temperatures. I am not even sure this is debatable at this point. It is like saying rain is more likely on cloudy days than sunny days.

Global warming preceded by increasing carbon dioxide concentrations during the last deglaciation - Nature

A reconstruction of global surface temperature is used to show that deglacial temperature is correlated with and generally lags carbon dioxide concentration, a result that contributes to the explanation of the temperature change that occurred at the end of the most recent ice age.

www.nature.com

View attachment 72988

I gave you a 175,000 year climate reconstruction. Please highlight the time when co2 started controlling climate....Thanks....

 

[West_Fork]

I have a B.S., M.S. and Ph.D. My PhD dissertation was in soil science and related to climate change. It had to do with soil carbon and nitrogen cycling in perennial grass systems. Ultimately, I measured soil carbon sequestration rates and greenhouse gas emissions coming from various management practices or cropping systems. I am either the first or second author on two peer-reviewed publications from this work. Yes, I am very familiar with how this science works.

"greeehouse gas emissions" eh? Please, tell me what the scientific definition of a "greenhouse gas" is.

So you are fully funded to promote the co2 religion?

 

[West_Fork]

Nope, I do not remember it being colder.

 

[chucker66]

-20 actual temp forecast for Monday and yes I do recall it being colder. And warmer and somewhere in between. 1991 we got 31 inches of snow on Halloween. 19 inches on Thanksgiving. Its weather and its different every year, if it were the same we would have nothing to talk about except corrupt politicians and how changing beans will affect deer (never mind humans lol)

 

[Stubborn1VT]

I'm always surprised when people disregard increasing average temperatures and rising ocean temps. You don't have to remember it being colder ( although I do) you can just look at the data.

 

[omicron1792]

I'm always surprised when people disregard increasing average temperatures and rising ocean temps. You don't have to remember it being colder ( although I do) you can just look at the data.

Do you think that data is 100 percent reliable and accurate, with no politics in play?

Do you think there could be other reasons for rising temps, such as a natural cycle out of a global cooling period?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm always surprised when people disregard increasing average temperatures and rising ocean temps. You don't have to remember it being colder ( although I do) you can just look at the data.

Just to tag along on your thoughts, Stubborn1VT - rising sea temps. How about rising sea levels?? Coastlines around the world are going further under water. Smaller island nations' citizens have begun applying for immigration to countries with higher ground. That's documented. Even the naval base in Virginia has had water encroaching into some of its buildings there, and plans are underway to move those buildings - or build new ones on higher ground. I read an article about it a few years ago. Wet feet don't lie - like politicians do for political gain. (All "fake news", right??)

As for sea temps - scientists have been measuring those for decades. Lots of data to show sea temps have been rising at an alarming rate. Whole coral reefs are bleaching white (and dying) due to temps too warm for corals to survive. No coral reefs / fewer coral reefs = less fish ....... food chain stuff. I'm sure some will claim the pics of dead, bleached-white coral reefs are just a videographer's technical trick. Easy to verify ....... get on a boat and go out to those places.

Lots of folks these days don't believe anything the science community says / warns us of. The world is a finite place - with finite resources - in a sealed bubble, called our atmosphere. I'm old enough to remember that homes along the coasts weren't built on stilts like so many have been retro-fitted for today. Occasional hurricanes weren't that common as some of today's storms are in their intensity. If there wasn't a proven need for stilts ....... why would are so many coastal homes & other buildings up on them today???

Deny, deny, deny, deny ......... until climate calamities bite those folks in the a$$.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I have a B.S., M.S. and Ph.D. My PhD dissertation was in soil science and related to climate change. It had to do with soil carbon and nitrogen cycling in perennial grass systems. Ultimately, I measured soil carbon sequestration rates and greenhouse gas emissions coming from various management practices or cropping systems. I am either the first or second author on two peer-reviewed publications from this work. Yes, I am very familiar with how this science works.

I think some folks here are muuuuccchhhh smarter than you are Hoytvectrix. Your degrees mean nothing in today's "I know everything .... scientists know nothing" mentality. Fake degrees. (I'm being sarcastic, Hoyt!!) I believe scientists who spend years / decades studying in their field - as opposed to jokers who get their "facts" from loud, politically-motivated yappers who get paid big $$$ to instigate BS and jack ratings. Is it any wonder the biggest promoters of climate-change denial are from industries - and their lobbyists - that profit from weaker / eliminated environmental regulations, such as fossil fuel companies??

 

[omicron1792]

It’s an appeal to authority fallacy.

I have two BS, a masters, and doctorate in science. My undergrad research was in ecology.

I feel most of the science data is skewed, biased, and politically motivated.

 

[Stubborn1VT]

Don't believe what you've seen with your own eyes OR the scientists. Believe what internet experts tell you. It's always a conspiracy.

The hottest day in recorded history happened many times last year, but I'm sure that's just politics.