Deer business wars?
- Thread starter SD51555
- Start date
Cattlemen here have been using throw n mow for eons. If you want winter pasture down here in the south, you plant in fall. You cant disk the pasture because you dont want to kill your native grass and it will soften the ground making a mess out of it when you turn the cows into it. You basically have two choices - drill it or throw n mow. Most cattlemen dont own a grain drill - so most cattlemen spread wheat and fertilizer on their pastures - Oct around here - then mow them fairly short. They were doing his before 1980 - that is when I first noticed it. But, I guess since it was cattlemen - it doesnt count.
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
Let's not forget about the Three Sisters method practiced by the indigenous people of the Americas and the whole regen movement:
"Agronomist Jane Mt. Pleasant writes that the Three Sisters mound system 'enhances the soil physical and biochemical environment, minimizes soil erosion, improves soil tilth, manages plant population and spacing, provides for plant nutrients in appropriate quantities, and at the time needed, and controls weeds'."
Sound familiar?
Bassattackr
5 year old buck +
Well boys tell you what.. I’ve been doing this iron method invented back in the 1700s and let me tell you, it does the trick. Really helps with weeds.. But I can’t claim to be the originator:
Mr. Tull had a wide influence on agriculture across the world because he was the inventor of the cultivator.
Early 1700s
In the early 1700s, Jethro Tull of England also proposed that plants consumed the small, pulverized power of the earth.Mr. Tull had a wide influence on agriculture across the world because he was the inventor of the cultivator.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
I'm not familiar with the "iron method", can you explain?
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
Iron kills weeds.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
So discing?
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I find Iron disrupts most weeds unless you disc deep until they are all gone. At that point you are introducing a lot of O2. As the increased O2 increases OM burn the need for adding fertilizer increases. In addition, you've just moved a lot of weed seed into the germination layer. A herbicide kill (although they have their own issues) kills the plant down to the roots without bringing up more weed seed and without introducing O2.
I think SwampCat's comment about cattlemen relates well to deer managers. While the specific crop and nutritional needs for deer are different than cattle, the concept is the same. T&M keeps soil disturbance light, cattle eat the plants but defecate back into the plot, and the nutrients mostly recycle. There are some differences though. With fencing and rotation of cattle, they can control grazing in terms of how much and when. They are extracting a larger amount of nutrients by harvesting cattle at a higher rate per acre than we do deer. But even with the higher extraction, a well managed pasture rarely needs fertilized as long as the number of cattle per acre doesn't get too high.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Yep, I think a better term for all techniques is "disadvantage weeds".
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
But, if you're trying to grow clover, wouldn't it be "give one weed the advantage"? I'd like to see the statistics on money spent trying to get rid of clover vs growing clover.
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
Weed seed blows in from all the pastures, crp plots, fence rows, organic farms and food plots. If you run just 1 large waterhemp plant thru your combine then good luck imagining where all those hundreds of thousands of seeds blow to and are carried in the machine to. Our gov't spreads weed seed all over the countryside on the decks of their mowers. There's fantasy and then there's reality.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Depends on your definition of "weed". The one I like best is "A plant growing where you don't want it". A weed to a farmer is anything he didn't plant. A weed for a deer manager is a plant that has marginal value for deer that is taking resources from a plant that is highly beneficial to deer.
That is one of the issues with herbicides in general. You are advantaging some plants over others. Sometimes, you select a herbicide that advantages your crop, but also advantages some non-crop plants over others. Repeated use can cause you to end up with a less than healthy and beneficial mix of native plants in your plot.
Thanks,
Jack
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
And sometimes the deer manager doesn't know that the "weed" he is trying to get rid of that he sees as having a "marginal value" is actually more beneficial.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I think that is key. It is a weakness of mine. I need to better be able to identify and classify "weeds" to determine if they are weeds for me. My general approach is to be weed tolerant, especially in cool season perennials like clover. From afar, one would think my clover fields are just abandon weed fields during the summer. What I'm looking for at this point is a healthy mix of weeds where I don't have one noxious weed dominating. Those weeds don't bother deer at all and some are beneficial. They help shade the clover and some even provide a little concealment for deer. I mow before the season when the cool nights an rain benefit the clover. Most of those summer annual weeds also take up space resources from cool season grasses. The clover bounces back and dominates the plot soon after fall mowing.
Thanks,
Jack
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
Yep! Weed & grass seeds also brought in by deer.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
How many guys actually clean their bushhog after mowing a field before moving to the next. Lots of sources to get weed seed into a field. Most seed won't germinate and grow until it gets into that right layer of the soil. "Weeds" are not something we eliminate, they are something we manage (for the better or worse).
Who has time for that!?! ;)
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
All plants have value or they wouldn't be there. One that might not be preferred by deer might be bringing minerals to the surface, or having a symbiotic relationship with fungus that's unlocking minerals that are lacking. There are often suitable replacements but to be successful they have to perform the tasks the weeds were doing or else there will be a never ending cycle of winner/loser.