Deer business wars?

[TenPoint]

Here in WI, baiting/feeding is illegal in a lot of the state due to CWD. I just don't pay attention to anything regarding feeders/protein/etc.

 

[PatinPA]

My secret method is different than all of the experts. I call it the 1-2-3-4 method:

1. I go into my place early in the year and create so much havoc with chainsaws and other equipment that I run everything off of my place onto the neighbor.

2. Then a few weeks before season, I quit and go home.

3. Then just before season, he moves into his place with 4-whellers, stinking everything up, busting into bedding areas, and runs everything back to me.

4. Then, when season arrives, I ease in quietly and shoot the deer I want.

There - I just saved you some big $$$$$$$ - and I only want you to send me half of what I saved you..........

That's my rifle season philosophy. I watch buck run all over the neighbor's property while they're sitting in their cars along the corn fields. Then they'll go for a walk in the afternoon and push even more to me. One of the biggest buck I've ever seen while hunting was bedded less than 150 yards from a guy sitting on the neighbors property. He sat there for about 1/2 hour mid morning and then left. I'm convinced that they think it sucks back there because their only way in blows all the deer out of there.

 

[TWIG]

I remember back in the good ol' days of QDMA, I'd go head to head arguing different concepts or strategies with some of these authors/youtubers. They'd fight me on topics that I regularly watch unfold in the woods. Today, years later, there they are on youtube spouting off knowledge about crap they were in complete disagreement with not long ago.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

I've started to mature in my approach as well. I used to just jump in whole hog and go for the root of the problem, and that caused some issues because often times I'd be answering a question nobody asked. --'How do I kill this?'-- and --'How do I solve this?'-- are two very different questions.

Yep, I know exactly what you mean. I’ve been guilty of that quite a few times

 

[Tree Spud]

Hey, I am an admin at the Habitat Chat on FB, dive in and comment. I don't comment myself much as I don't have time but we need good folks to share information. Unless you are referring to habitat managers (I am not an admin there - our group is only like 3K people).

PS - Don't tell the deer but the 11-year-old bow is still killing them, I think they are supposed to not die from this old sucker! LOL

BH10 ... you have provided a good resource of info here.

I don't share on FB as there are too many experts and opinion gurus. People want simple solutions to complex problems. I share here as I have a lot of experience as I have made many mistakes that I have learned from

 

[Baker]

I don't keep up with any marketing , products, or consultants at all. I have close friends that are biologist but our conversations sound nothing like the promotions I here guys like y'all discussing on forums{ Doe factories? wth} What I have learned from deer is that they are extraordinarily adaptable and few rules apply across all circumstances. I focus first { second, third forth} on nutritiion. Next on age. But my deepest fascination now , which I firmly believe extrapolates to the benefit of deer, is soil science, soil regeneration and the various tactics methodologies and outcomes from such. Please let me know if any of the experts or corporations can help me with that .

 

[yoderjac]

I don't keep up with any marketing , products, or consultants at all. I have close friends that are biologist but our conversations sound nothing like the promotions I here guys like y'all discussing on forums{ Doe factories? wth} What I have learned from deer is that they are extraordinarily adaptable and few rules apply across all circumstances. I focus first { second, third forth} on nutritiion. Next on age. But my deepest fascination now , which I firmly believe extrapolates to the benefit of deer, is soil science, soil regeneration and the various tactics methodologies and outcomes from such. Please let me know if any of the experts or corporations can help me with that .

For the right price, they can "help" you with anything!

 

[Tree Spud]

I don't keep up with any marketing , products, or consultants at all. I have close friends that are biologist but our conversations sound nothing like the promotions I here guys like y'all discussing on forums{ Doe factories? wth} What I have learned from deer is that they are extraordinarily adaptable and few rules apply across all circumstances. I focus first { second, third forth} on nutritiion. Next on age. But my deepest fascination now , which I firmly believe extrapolates to the benefit of deer, is soil science, soil regeneration and the various tactics methodologies and outcomes from such. Please let me know if any of the experts or corporations can help me with that .

What flavor of Kool Aid do you prefer?

 

[Brian662]

Ya I really liked the buck bed idea first starting out. Cut a log as a back rest and put down some straw for them to bed in and just watch the huge bucks bed there. haha. I have a 50 gallon drum that I turned into a water hole too.

One thing I do like is the grape vine scrape although I don't see mature buck use them. It's all small buck and does. And they have to be placed perfectly to work. The deer don't go out of their way to search them out.

That's an interesting observation because I get a few dozen photos a year of the biggest bucks in the area check out mock scrapes. From sniffing to peeing in them between September to December.

 

[TreeDaddy]

My secret method is different than all of the experts. I call it the 1-2-3-4 method:

1. I go into my place early in the year and create so much havoc with chainsaws and other equipment that I run everything off of my place onto the neighbor.

2. Then a few weeks before season, I quit and go home.

3. Then just before season, he moves into his place with 4-whellers, stinking everything up, busting into bedding areas, and runs everything back to me.

4. Then, when season arrives, I ease in quietly and shoot the deer I want.

There - I just saved you some big $$$$$$$ - and I only want you to send me half of what I saved you..........

Cmon,SteveWhen you get serious about deer hunting, I'll send you one of these.......

 

[Native Hunter]

Cmon,SteveWhen you get serious about deer hunting, I'll send you one of these.......View attachment 44421

I would pay big $$$$ for that bill.....

 

[SwampCat]

We don’t have the equivalent in my state. Our area Wildlife Biologist is short of help(state’s view) and really seems to be more of an ecologist than a wildlife man.

I have a forestry consultant who is an avid deer hunter and I like the way he lays out timber harvest.

Part of the key, if you follow someone, is that they have extensive experience in your type of habitat and climate.


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Yes - for sure. I have read/listened to some of the deer experts - mostly northern guys - and their advice would be 180 degrees opposite of what needed to be done down here in this part of the country. A lot of those folks assume what they know applies to everywhere.

 

[SwampCat]

A lot of folks I know have been doing what they now basically call regenerative plotting for years. I was planting perrenial white clover and overseeding wheat or winter rye into it thirty years ago when I worked for the Feds. We did it as a time and cost savings method. Some plots went ten years without a disk touching it. We didnt know it had a designated name. Perennial clover by itself is a form of regenerative plotting. Most folks dont disk their perennial clover every year - we try to make it last as long as we can. Mowing the perennial clover a time or two a year keeps it going for years in some cases - and planting the grasses - wheat, oats, rye - uses the nitrogen generated by the clover. I know folks been doing that since 1985

 

[Bill]

Big bucks can be had any day of the year.

I’ve killed some very dandy bucks in September. But I’ve done it “Bartylla” style. Picking at the edge in the right wind, only in the afternoon. But my farm always hunts better in the afternoon.

When Steve was doing consults and writing books he always seemed to try and teach how to hunt smart along with the habitat stuff. Or maybe that’s what I keyed in on reading his stuff.

 

[rocksnstumps]

+1 on Higgins, he’s starting to get repetitive but he’s still among the best. My place is also a “doe factory” for much of the season… Except fall

Sturgis has been stealing Paul Knox’s concepts for years.. Paul used to take him to school on Mi Sportsman back in the day..

Yes back in the day when he went by the handle "NorthJeff" and before all his consulting and book career. Did note later on he claimed he did all sorts of innovative things before others....but forgot to mention he might have borrowed a page or two from Ed Spin...

 

[rocksnstumps]

A lot of folks I know have been doing what they now basically call regenerative plotting for years. I was planting perrenial white clover and overseeding wheat or winter rye into it thirty years ago when I worked for the Feds. We did it as a time and cost savings method. Some plots went ten years without a disk touching it. We didnt know it had a designated name. Perennial clover by itself is a form of regenerative plotting. Most folks dont disk their perennial clover every year - we try to make it last as long as we can. Mowing the perennial clover a time or two a year keeps it going for years in some cases - and planting the grasses - wheat, oats, rye - uses the nitrogen generated by the clover. I know folks been doing that since 1985

Very true Swamp. Lots of stuff been done and later "discovered" by others again. Sure they probably did just try it on their own without reading about it first but dont get cocky and all cause somebody else probably did it prior but maybe for different reasons even.

Does help if you describe with a catchy phrase though. Case in point, throw and mow, spray and pray, etc. First read about the basic method on a regional forum (ok Michigan Sportsman) about 2000 or 2001. But the guy described it as "only spot I got to plot is on a steep hill and gonna erode like a bitch if I disc so just gonna spray, kill stuff and throw out seed and see what happens". Was fairly successful too. But much too long a description and coming up with a word that rhymes with erode was maybe too hard so others get to be the "pioneers"

No doubt some have done a very nice job of recording ongoing results but best to remind ourselves lotta smart folks out there across our big nation.

 

[Brian662]

Yes back in the day when he went by the handle "NorthJeff" and before all his consulting and book career. Did note later on he claimed he did all sorts of innovative things before others....but forgot to mention he might have borrowed a page or two from Ed Spin...

That's funny. I watch a fair amount Sturgis' content and one of the only people he credits (quite often, to be honest) is Ed Spinnazola.

 

[rocksnstumps]

My comment was based on content he was putting out long before the youtube phenom. Haven't watched his videos to be honest. If he is now giving some credit to Ed that's good he is acknowledging that.

 

[LEWI B]

It certainly comes at a price when the “money” around you makes it a priority to constantly distort everyone’s view of your message and knowledge base so as to keep it from becoming relevant to the consumer. I get it though….its just the way the market works when there are goods and products that need sold and in a weird way its even understandable….you live and learn I guess…. though I’ll still never be the guy to knowingly pimp products over science. It’s just not the way I’m wired.



One of the biggest issues we have in wildlife management is that the truth always has to be blurred in order to fit all of the other special interests and agendas. After awhile it makes it really difficult for folks to be able to find realistic solutions to problems that make sense or even know what the actual problem may be in some cases. The science that get taught on how to manage wildlife or soil reaches a point of being irrelevant and it becomes more about marketing and economics. I suppose I have a much more realistic but very jaded view of the whole situation now. I still enjoy helping people but I’m through being that pioneer having all the arrows slung at him. The chips will just have to fall how they may concerning the bigger picture.

You definitely had many arrows shot in your direction........You did not back up
........I applaud that and the message you brought. Did not fit my situation perfectly but close enough to adapt.

Thank You Sir

 

[sandbur]

Very true Swamp. Lots of stuff been done and later "discovered" by others again. Sure they probably did just try it on their own without reading about it first but dont get cocky and all cause somebody else probably did it prior but maybe for different reasons even.

Does help if you describe with a catchy phrase though. Case in point, throw and mow, spray and pray, etc. First read about the basic method on a regional forum (ok Michigan Sportsman) about 2000 or 2001. But the guy described it as "only spot I got to plot is on a steep hill and gonna erode like a bitch if I disc so just gonna spray, kill stuff and throw out seed and see what happens". Was fairly successful too. But much too long a description and coming up with a word that rhymes with erode was maybe too hard so others get to be the "pioneers"

No doubt some have done a very nice job of recording ongoing results but best to remind ourselves lotta smart folks out there across our big nation.

As you say, a lot has been seen before and is not new.

How many on this thread were around during the QDMA forum days? I read and tried some things back then, but finally realized that what works in the south often doesn’t work here.


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