Crab apple thicket

[chummer]

I had an idea to take an area 100'x100' and fill it with crab apple seedlings. I was thinking 5' spacing and just let them grow into a tangled mess. I figured the first ten years they would be great browse while somewhat protecting each other from over browsing. After that I could start removing the less desirable trees if needed. At what age do think they would start choking each other out? I figured with the population way down this may be a good time to try an experiment. I think the grouse would love it as well.

 

[SD51555]

I say go for it. As long as you're prepared for the chance it doesn't work out, I'd let it ride. I figured that'd be about 400 trees. If you up it to 500 and get one of the plug seedling crabs from Itasca, you could pull of that experiment for a around $250. We did the same thing on our place this year with RO Dogwood. Ironic thing is after we planted, we discovered we had a very small amount of dogwood already growing on our property. Clearly not enough to spread enough seed to populate our cut over areas. What is there, and I could count a few dozen struggling stems, they were already browsed again this fall. Hoping the 250-300 we put down can jump ahead.

 

[sandbur]

I have about 4 of those in place and there have been crab apples in one of them for two years. I used 150 feet roll of cement wire for the two b ggest ones and about 1 roll split between the other two.

There are probably pictures in the sandbox thread, and definitely in the sandbox on the dark side.

I grew these apples from seed. One area has plums on one end and crabs on the other. Second area has plums in the middle and crabs on the outside.

Maybe consider buying some apple rootstock and planting a variety of it. Seedling dolgo rootstock are cheap!

 

[chummer]

I have about 4 of those in place and there have been crab apples in one of them for two years. I used 150 feet roll of cement wire for the two b ggest ones and about 1 roll split between the other two.

There are probably pictures in the sandbox thread, and definitely in the sandbox on the dark side.

I grew these apples from seed. One area has plums on one end and crabs on the other. Second area has plums in the middle and crabs on the outside.

Maybe consider buying some apple rootstock and planting a variety of it. Seedling dolgo rootstock are cheap!

I remember those pics. I think I am going to fill in a portion of one of my plots. I am bored with food plots, and mad they didn't get consumed. I had .5 acre of beautiful clover that was still 6" high when the snow covered it. Seems like a waste of space. It obviously didn't draw in deer from miles away like the bag promised me. The only year I have seen "a lot" of deer was last year with the huge apple crop. I think I have to realize the deer in my area travel a lot and I am not going to be able to keep them on my place. I think my new plan is to load up on apples and wait for years with a good crop to have good hunting. I will have 40 caged trees after this year and I will start filling in crabs everywhere else.

 

[ruskbucks]

I had an idea to take an area 100'x100' and fill it with crab apple seedlings. I was thinking 5' spacing and just let them grow into a tangled mess. I figured the first ten years they would be great browse while somewhat protecting each other from over browsing. After that I could start removing the less desirable trees if needed. At what age do think they would start choking each other out? I figured with the population way down this may be a good time to try an experiment. I think the grouse would love it as well.

I like it, go for it. If you look around in fence lines, you see all kind of crabs, cherry, plums, etc growing in dense thickets. They might not put as much fruit on if they were in the open, but the one I see are doing pretty well.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Chummer - Just a thought about your clover. Ours wasn't getting hit this fall like last year. Big acorn crop this year kept deer away from our plots. Now that snow has covered our area and the acorns are decaying and harder to find, the deer are hitting our clover, rye, W. wheat, and brassica. To our dismay, they're coming to the plots way after dark so we had a lousy season seeing deer in shooting light. Tracks tell the story of where & what they're eating, so the green fields are just now becoming buffet #1. Tracks also show the deer are coming from a ways off - not just deer on our property. How they find our plots from far away is unclear. But they DO find them !!

As far as crabapples go, I don't think you can go wrong planting them. Every type we have at my camp is a draw for deer, grouse, turkeys. We have a variety of crabs - around 12 kinds - and will be planting more this spring. Less chance of disease or weather wipe-out that way. If you're gonna fence-in an area for the crabs, throw in a hawthorn or 2 with them. Fence will keep the deer off both kinds of trees until they get past browse-kill size. 2 food & cover trees in the same enclosure. You won't be sorry.

 

[chummer]

Chummer - Just a thought about your clover. Ours wasn't getting hit this fall like last year. Big acorn crop this year kept deer away from our plots. Now that snow has covered our area and the acorns are decaying and harder to find, the deer are hitting our clover, rye, W. wheat, and brassica. To our dismay, they're coming to the plots way after dark so we had a lousy season seeing deer in shooting light. Tracks tell the story of where & what they're eating, so the green fields are just now becoming buffet #1. Tracks also show the deer are coming from a ways off - not just deer on our property. How they find our plots from far away is unclear. But they DO find them !!

As far as crabapples go, I don't think you can go wrong planting them. Every type we have at my camp is a draw for deer, grouse, turkeys. We have a variety of crabs - around 12 kinds - and will be planting more this spring. Less chance of disease or weather wipe-out that way. If you're gonna fence-in an area for the crabs, throw in a hawthorn or 2 with them. Fence will keep the deer off both kinds of trees until they get past browse-kill size. 2 food & cover trees in the same enclosure. You won't be sorry.

I am going to tube them or try a barb wire enclosure My problem anything under 6' they will just step over in the winter. I have hundreds of hawthorn, I am going to be moving some to start a thicket. The deer loved the clover plot, the problem is there were so few deer this year. I can always convert some of a hayfield to clover if the population ever grows.

 

[sandbur]

Chummer-could you use 5 foot cement wire and tall fence posts. Then elevate the cement wire by 18 inches or so?

Or cut tamarack for posts?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Bur has a good idea, Chummer. I use 5' cement mesh around my trees ( we don't get the depth of snow you get ) but if you raised it 18" or so like Bur suggested, wouldn't that be tall enough to keep deer out MOST of the time? I don't know the cost of barbed wire for comparing it to concrete mesh, so I can't help you there. I get 150' of c.-mesh for $100. It's 5' tall. I think Bur had something like that around his thickets if I remember his pix correctly.

Hopefully come spring you'll get some rebound in your deer numbers. Last winter WAS a brute for snow & cold.

 

[chummer]

Bur has a good idea, Chummer. I use 5' cement mesh around my trees ( we don't get the depth of snow you get ) but if you raised it 18" or so like Bur suggested, wouldn't that be tall enough to keep deer out MOST of the time? I don't know the cost of barbed wire for comparing it to concrete mesh, so I can't help you there. I get 150' of c.-mesh for $100. It's 5' tall. I think Bur had something like that around his thickets if I remember his pix correctly.

Hopefully come spring you'll get some rebound in your deer numbers. Last winter WAS a brute for snow & cold.

That would probably work most winters. Last winter it would not have. No matter what I do there are going to be holes in the system. I will be interested to see how my 6' welded wire works. I had a few trees to grow to the top last year which sets them up nice for next year. With the same growth next year they will be at 9-10'. I think if I can get them through 3 growing seasons I might be in the clear.

 

[sandbur]

Here are a couple of old pictures

.



I used some farm stead plums in the middle and it did not fill in as well as I would have liked. Wild plums or just crab apples would have been a better choice, Wild plums sucker more.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Chummer - are you planning on using the crab thicket for bow hunting? ( once they produce ) When we planted our crabs ( and apples ) we put them close enough to large pine, oak, maple or hemlock trees so we had stand trees within 30 yds. of the fruit trees. We have another " orchard " in the usual sense - but it's closer to the cabin - not used for close bow stands per se. Our HUNTING fruit trees are planted kind of randomly, near heavy cover with stand trees close. All of them get plenty of sunlight for blossom/fruit-set. The most we have is 3 trees together (pollination ). Do you have any possible stand trees located near your planned crab thicket?

 

[chummer]

Chummer - are you planning on using the crab thicket for bow hunting? ( once they produce ) When we planted our crabs ( and apples ) we put them close enough to large pine, oak, maple or hemlock trees so we had stand trees within 30 yds. of the fruit trees. We have another " orchard " in the usual sense - but it's closer to the cabin - not used for close bow stands per se. Our HUNTING fruit trees are planted kind of randomly, near heavy cover with stand trees close. All of them get plenty of sunlight for blossom/fruit-set. The most we have is 3 trees together (pollination ). Do you have any possible stand trees located near your planned crab thicket?

I have apple trees in two locations and I would like to put the thicket near one or both of them. They are only 150 yards apart. They are like a fork in the road where the deer come out of a grove of hemlocks that is close to .5 mile long. I went up couple weeks ago and picked a future stand sight. I hinged to make a trail from the hemlocks to each apple/plot area. My stand will be where the trail splits to go to each area. The best part is I can walk a stream bed from the road to the stand. Of the seven deer shot in 25 years, 6 have been in this area. I think it will be great for bow season after that all bets are off with the crazy pressure the area sees. I am trying to do things thinking 10 years down the road, and apples seem to be the way to go.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Hey Chummer - That sounds like a perfect set-up you've got going on there. That stream-bed approach is solid gold! The split - trail stand location covers travel in either direction. We're doing the same thing at my camp when it comes to planning for 5 to 20 yrs. down the road. Most of our apple / crab planting locations are where tree stands can easily be placed for bow hunting. From the sounds of the 6 previous kills in that area, it must be a natural travel zone for deer already. And you're making it better. Good job & keep at it !!