COVID

[yoderjac]

You totally miss the point and prove my point all at the same time

Bill,

I'm not missing your point. If you look at one of my earlier posts, I'm done trying to convince anyone to change their minds. I believe we are at the point in the pandemic where changing locked in positions will have little impact. I believe that over time, short of a more lethal variant (which is still possible), COVID will mutate into a more transmissible but less deadly form. In time, herd immunity will bring things into balance and it will be in the same class as the common flu in lethality. Like the flue, folks will decided on an individual basis if the risk is worth the reward.

The discussion on decision bias was aimed more at understanding why obviously intelligent folks of good conscience can have such radically different views locked in. It wasn't aimed at your arguments.

If I were to challenge you argument on athletes, it would on the basis of correlation versus causation. But as I said, I'm done with trying to change folks minds. I think we would do well just to keep supporting each other as the need arises.

I certainly appreciate all the support I received on this thread, and am looking forward to popping my head out of the groundhog hole on Thursday!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I am not anti vax, I got my tetanus shot last summer, I have taken the flu shot 2 times, and got sick 2 times the next few days after the shot. I have only had the flu bad one time, so why make my self sick from getting a shot? When they warn you before the COVID shot that you can get sick, I would rather just take my chances of getting sick without the shot

The so-called "getting sick" from a shot - whatever kind - is the body's immune system reaction to the vaccine, stimulating it to produce antibodies. That immune response can cause fever, some aches, soreness at the injection site, etc. But you don't have the actual disease. The "sick" feeling you get is your body's immune system ramping up making antibodies - which is what the shot is supposed to do.

Measles is a disease we didn't hear about for years while people got their kids vaccinated against it. But in recent years, some people have concluded that all vaccines are bad, and haven't gotten their kids measles shots. Now there are measles outbreaks in areas where "never-vaxxers" refuse to follow protocols that virtually stopped measles for years.

For those skeptical of "the push" ....

As for the push to get people vaccinated - if the medical infectious disease experts took a "no big deal" approach to what science & testing suggested should be an urgent response, the public would have been b#######g that the medical community & the government failed them. Can't win either way. If anyone doesn't trust those who spend their entire lives trying to improve the health of our citizens ....... then don't get ANY vaccinations. Skip the tetanus, flu, pneumonia, shingles, and smallpox vaccines - and for Pete's sake - don't let your kids and grandkids get those awful shots for measles, mumps, diphtheria, smallpox, flu, or tetanus either. Despite decades-long proven success with those vaccines, it's far safer to listen to a talking head on the radio or TV that have monetized getting people stirred-up, and to not trust ANYTHING. Bravo.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Despite all the bluster - I hope you're feeling better Jack.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Well I also would not take advice from a bunch of yahoo's on a habitat forum regarding my health

I got my advice from ALL of my doctors. Every one advised getting the vaccine. I'm only posting what advice / points they made to my wife and me. I make no claim to medical expertise.

 

[Lucky_P]

So... the 'new' 'bivalent' COVID 'vaccine' from Pfizer is directed against the original (Alpha) form of SARS-CoV2, and the Omicron variant... both of which are essentially extinct/nonexistent today.
Kind of like taking a flu shot from 2 years ago and expecting it to be effective. I'm not doing it.

I've posted this info previously, but will bring it up again... I'm a lot more trustful that immunity from a series of MMR II vaccinations I took in Fall of 2020 will provide protection against severe COVID disease and hospitalization than I am that the mRNA shots will.

Analysis of Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) Titers of Recovered COVID-19 Patients - PMC

COVID-19 has presented various paradoxes that, if understood better, may provide clues to controlling the pandemic, even before a COVID-19 vaccine is widely available. First, young children are largely spared from severe disease. Second, numerous ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[yoderjac]

Despite all the bluster - I hope you're feeling better Jack.

I'm actually feeling much better than before the infection now. I have had some kind of reactive arthritis since my early 30s. Tested positive and then inconclusive for Lyme disease back then, but there are other possible pathogens. They basically said it is some kind of reactive arthritis. I don't know if it is the Paxlovid or Amoxicillin or what, but my joint inflammation is way down and I'm moving much better. Not sure if it will last or is just temporary.

Unfortunately, they are calling for cold rain and sleet all day, so I'll be stuck inside.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bill]

people on the other side anti-vaxxers (again not my term)

We now “identify” as purebloods, there is less negative connotation to it.
Hesitant, resistant and anti triggers me.

 

[yoderjac]

So... the 'new' 'bivalent' COVID 'vaccine' from Pfizer is directed against the original (Alpha) form of SARS-CoV2, and the Omicron variant... both of which are essentially extinct/nonexistent today.
Kind of like taking a flu shot from 2 years ago and expecting it to be effective. I'm not doing it.

I've posted this info previously, but will bring it up again... I'm a lot more trustful that immunity from a series of MMR II vaccinations I took in Fall of 2020 will provide protection against severe COVID disease and hospitalization than I am that the mRNA shots will.

Analysis of Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) Titers of Recovered COVID-19 Patients - PMC

COVID-19 has presented various paradoxes that, if understood better, may provide clues to controlling the pandemic, even before a COVID-19 vaccine is widely available. First, young children are largely spared from severe disease. Second, numerous ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Pretty tiny study to draw any significant conclusions from, but it looks like a well done study. It certainly provides a basis for a larger group study. If the inverse correlation is confirmed, it looks like an interesting area for causal hypotheses and testing.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[jsasker007]

The so-called "getting sick" from a shot - whatever kind - is the body's immune system reaction to the vaccine, stimulating it to produce antibodies. That immune response can cause fever, some aches, soreness at the injection site, etc. But you don't have the actual disease. The "sick" feeling you get is your body's immune system ramping up making antibodies - which is what the shot is supposed to do.

Measles is a disease we didn't hear about for years while people got their kids vaccinated against it. But in recent years, some people have concluded that all vaccines are bad, and haven't gotten their kids measles shots. Now there are measles outbreaks in areas where "never-vaxxers" refuse to follow protocols that virtually stopped measles for years.

For those skeptical of "the push" ....

As for the push to get people vaccinated - if the medical infectious disease experts took a "no big deal" approach to what science & testing suggested should be an urgent response, the public would have been b#######g that the medical community & the government failed them. Can't win either way. If anyone doesn't trust those who spend their entire lives trying to improve the health of our citizens ....... then don't get ANY vaccinations. Skip the tetanus, flu, pneumonia, shingles, and smallpox vaccines - and for Pete's sake - don't let your kids and grandkids get those awful shots for measles, mumps, diphtheria, smallpox, flu, or tetanus either. Despite decades-long proven success with those vaccines, it's far safer to listen to a talking head on the radio or TV that have monetized getting people stirred-up, and to not trust ANYTHING. Bravo.

You really do have a way of twisting people's words to fit the narrative you create from thin air. Have not heard one person say they won't take PROVEN vaccines. Now you are accusing someone of not giving children the proper vaccines?

 

[bwoods11]

The argument about polio vaccine, measles, smallpox, vaccinations for kids that this compares is crazy . It’s not the same .

This was rushed, and people are dying young from the shot . Myocarditis is common. …7% have reported side effects

This is not apples for apples. Pfizer earned mega billions from the vaccine, yet the stock is down . Investors see the problems long term.

We are in the first inning of this. I will guarantee you, the effectiveness and safety of this vaccine will be one of the biggest medical stories in world history .

How many need to die before people wake up ? When someone dies suddenly which is daily now, multiple … why do they refuse to disclose the vaccination status ?

 

[Bill Loser]

Jack, I get it you say you aren't trying to change any minds. But while not trying to, you still pass off any other views as simple bias, you aren't the only one nor the worst one, but you do it.

Bows, those really aren't the same things. Literally every other vax has the side effects listed and the dangers are well known and discussed. With these "vaccines" they are not allowed to be brought up or discussed. Why? Add to that how they are constantly pushed on everyone 24/7 and it leads to questions by many people. Add to that the fact that we were lied to literally every step of the way in every aspect of this "pandemic" and then lied to more about every aspect of the "vaccines" and it raises even more questions.
To say anyone who questions these "vaccines" as anti or non vaxxers is disingenuous at best. Its just another way to try to discredit anyone who disagrees.

 

[Bill Loser]

The argument about polio vaccine, measles, smallpox, vaccinations for kids that this compares is crazy . It’s not the same .

This was rushed, and people are dying young from the shot . Myocarditis is common. …7% have reported side effects

This is not apples for apples. Pfizer earned mega billions from the vaccine, yet the stock is down . Investors see the problems long term.

We are in the first inning of this. I will guarantee you, the effectiveness and safety of this vaccine will be one of the biggest medical stories in world history .

How many need to die before people wake up ? When someone dies suddenly which is daily now, multiple … why do they refuse to disclose the vaccination status ?

Those are the same questions I have. Seems like every day someone drops dead with no real explanation of what happened. Kinda weird that the biggest cause of death in adults is sudden adult death syndrome isn't it?

 

[bwoods11]

These people pushing this are the same ones that believe….
*Russian collusion is real
*Trump is a Russian agent
*Trump should be impeached for questioning Ukraine/Hunter Biden deal
*Trump has classified documents and should be in jail
Trump stole the nuclear codes
*Ray Epps is nobody
*Democrats won’t ban guns
*you should eat crickets, no more beef
* The Coronavirus came from eating a bat
*Bike to work, while I fly to Davos on a private plane
*The glaciers will be gone (predicted to be by 2016)
*Theres no inflation
*Skyrocketing oil prices was not Biden’s fault
* We have a strong economy
* Sending 50 billion to Ukraine makes sense
* Nothing to see here (Epstein)
*FTX Crypto owner is a good person who is changing the world !
*The malfunction of the Arizona voting machines was not planned
* It’s normal to have a huge lead in the election then massive vote dumps at 3 am the day after the election suddenly change it to Biden ??

I mean cmon, after everything that’s happened in the past 3 years, people still trust our current government ?? Insanity.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

You really do have a way of twisting people's words to fit the narrative you create from thin air. Have not heard one person say they won't take PROVEN vaccines. Now you are accusing someone of not giving children the proper vaccines?

Let me preface by saying - I'm not angry or pounding on the table, foaming at the mouth, etc. I have nothing against anyone on here!!

I'm only repeating what the "anti-vaxxers" have said on TV interviews. I've heard PLENTY of people in real life, on TV, and in written articles say they don't trust ANY vaccines now. I have them in my family. Some of them didn't fare well with Covid. Is THAT smart??? I take vaccines on the advice of several doctors I go to. My wife and I got our kids vaccinated for all the usual things - and they didn't get those diseases.
As for "proving" the Covid vaccines - how many years should people have waited to see if the vaccine was working?? How many would have died that are now still alive?? Some folks within hours of their deaths - on TV - told people to get the vaccine. If an athlete, or ANY person for that matter, that has gotten the vaccine in 2020 dies - of anything - right away the talking heads are plucking "the vaccine" out of thin air as the culprit. How's THAT for arbitrary?? But some people will believe an arbitrary guess / "stab" like that by a talk-show host rather than real doctors. By stirring the pot of "doubt and rage", they jack their ratings, and pour more money in their pockets. Controversy and "rage" make them money. I'd be REAL curious to know how many of the talking heads or their family members actually got their shots.

My point is this - because of talking heads on TV and radio, MANY people today don't trust ANY medical advice and they refuse vaccines to their kids for things that HAVE been proven. That's NOT the fault of the medical community - but rather falls on the money / ratings-grabbing spewers of HS just to keep the pot stirred ..... to their monetary advantage. Why anyone would buy into the crap of a talk-show host, and blot out the advice of the medical community as a whole is beyond me. But ............ some people buy "commemorative coins" with .00067" gold plating on them thinking they're valuable too.

 

[jsasker007]

I got my advice from ALL of my doctors. Every one advised getting the vaccine. I'm only posting what advice / points they made to my wife and me. I make no claim to medical expertis

These people pushing this are the same ones that believe….
*Russian collusion is real
*Trump is a Russian agent
*Trump should be impeached for questioning Ukraine/Hunter Biden deal
*Trump has classified documents and should be in jail
Trump stole the nuclear codes
*Ray Epps is nobody
*Democrats won’t ban guns
*you should eat crickets, no more beef
* The Coronavirus came from eating a bat
*Bike to work, while I fly to Davos on a private plane
*The glaciers will be gone (predicted to be by 2016)
*Theres no inflation
*Skyrocketing oil prices was not Biden’s fault
* We have a strong economy
* Sending 50 billion to Ukraine makes sense
* Nothing to see here (Epstein)
*FTX Crypto owner is a good person who is changing the world !
*The malfunction of the Arizona voting machines was not planned
* It’s normal to have a huge lead in the election then massive vote dumps at 3 am the day after the election suddenly change it to Biden ??

I mean cmon, after everything that’s happened in the past 3 years, people still trust our current government ?? Insanity.

My vote for post of the month right here.

 

[Bill Loser]

Who gives a rats ass what ant talking head says? I look around. I lived COVID. I can tell you with a good level of certainty,if they had allowed the early treatments that many drs were saying work many many 1000s of people would be alive. Instead they catered to the get rich quick crowd of fauchi, the pharmaceuticals, and the Biden bunch and outlawed all the stuff that works in favor of the high priced stuff that doesn't.. and in most cases kills you.
I look at the ap report that says 1500 athletes dropped dead last year ,up from an average of 29 a year and think to myself what's up with that?
I look at all the celebrities that are dying, a lot very young. Very few have any real cause of death and wonder wtf is going on?
I watch the Damar Hamlin thing happen and how quick they jumped in to say a vaccine had nothing to do with it and wonder why were they so quick?
This and so so much more.
The Dr just miles from me who has a form of paralysis that started days after his shot. He tried to talk about it and his concerns and the hospital shut him down hard. Now you hear nothing from him.
An ex packers wife had severe reaction to it. They started a group to support others. They are regularly bashed and discredited. Why?
But you are right. I only listen to the heads on TV and radio...

 

[omicron1792]

You totally miss the point and prove my point all at the same time

I don’t think your points are not valid. I agree on masks, distancing, vaccines for kids, the governments hypocrisy and inefficiency on the issue.

The bias comes in where you lump “vaccines” in with the other issues. It’s perfectly reasonable, and likely that all the things you/I said above are wrong, AND vaccines saved a lot of lives and were a success.

Balls and strikes my man. Balls and strikes.

 

[Bill Loser]

What other issues are you talking about?

 

[omicron1792]

Who gives a rats ass what ant talking head says? I look around. I lived COVID. I can tell you with a good level of certainty,if they had allowed the early treatments that many drs were saying work many many 1000s of people would be alive. Instead they catered to the get rich quick crowd of fauchi, the pharmaceuticals, and the Biden bunch and outlawed all the stuff that works in favor of the high priced stuff that doesn't.. and in most cases kills you.
I look at the ap report that says 1500 athletes dropped dead last year ,up from an average of 29 a year and think to myself what's up with that?
I look at all the celebrities that are dying, a lot very young. Very few have any real cause of death and wonder wtf is going on?
I watch the Damar Hamlin thing happen and how quick they jumped in to say a vaccine had nothing to do with it and wonder why were they so quick?
This and so so much more.
The Dr just miles from me who has a form of paralysis that started days after his shot. He tried to talk about it and his concerns and the hospital shut him down hard. Now you hear nothing from him.
An ex packers wife had severe reaction to it. They started a group to support others. They are regularly bashed and discredited. Why?
But you are right. I only listen to the heads on TV and radio...

Transverse myelitis is a rare but real side effect of vaccines. Always has been. This is the first time in our lifetime 200 million adults were vaccinated all in a short period of time. Would have had the same effects with any vaccine given to that many adults in short period.

 

[omicron1792]

What other issues are you talking about?

I agree on masks, distancing, vaccines for kids, the governments hypocrisy and inefficiency on the issue.

These.