Coronavirus

[Troubles Trees]

Not going to argue your points, since I don't have any answers or even reasonable opinions beyond what you can find with a simple Google search. But I would like to clarify that the COVID/flu test detects each independently at the same time. You don't simply get a positive and flip a coin to see which disease caused it. You get a positive or negative for COVID and a positive or negative for Influenza. That having been said, I also have concerns regarding the lack of positive flu numbers. It doesn't make sense to me. But I have not had time to dig deeper into the data. However, my interpretation of this is that there is more to be learned.

I simply ask questions to answers I cannot find myself bud. I don't slander people for their opinions or beliefs, I simply state the data I have found and am astounded that nobody talks about this stuff more openly considering the consequences we have all faced throughout all this crazy. If anyone in this day and age thinks our government isn't anything but a corrupt self serving board of "trusted people" they are simply ignorant of the facts. Man Made Climate Change is a great example, science screams "the ice is melting and our oceans are rising" but they surely must be aware that at least twice in Earths history has the Earth been Ice free, or mostly ice free, and it was before humans were even present. "Co2 is rising at alarming levels" but historically the Earth has had much higher levels and much warmer temperatures without humans being present. I come off as brash in text but really I am just firmly asking for proof either way and people get upset by asking. I am thankful you aren't that way Knehrke. Science is only as honest as the people painting the picture and data can easily be manipulated to extract a favorable narrative... until it is put under scrutiny by others and then they just slander/silence those. There are literally thousands of scientists that debunk Man Made Climate Change but we give the microphone to the 139 at the Paris Accord. Michael Mann's Hockey Stick has been debunked in court years ago and shown he manipulated the data he used to form it, crickets since, but the narrative is still going strong today and heavily driven by fear by our own government.

As far as Covid goes, a majority of the lockdown measures taken made no sense, close all small businesses so everyone goes to Walmart to buy supplies? I thought the idea was to keep us spread out, not condensed. You can sit at a bar but you can't stand, and you MUST eat a meal but chicken wings aren't a meal. There is, and never was, any data to support that type of control. I won't even get into masks lol
You admit that something smells fishy but "just can't see there being a significant amount of false results" yet you are a science guy, you don't have data to back that up yet you wholeheartedly believe it? I have looked extensively for accuracy of the tests and there isn't any information available my friend. I can say "every asymptomatic Covid positive is a false positive test." I can't prove it because the CDC doesn't even talk about numbers with either one, BUT you can't prove me wrong either and as you say that is the basis of science "The first rule of science is that nothing can ever be proven, only disproven". Same thing goes for the flu numbers, can you or anyone else point to another time in our history where the flu simply disappeared? I have looked for the last couple of weeks and it hasn't happened anywhere that I have found. That is why I even bother to speak about it.

I am always open minded and understand science evolves as more accurate ways to discover become available. But every time something like this comes up there are so many red flags that go unexplained and a majority of people simply believe their TV because they have been the fact checkers historically. We are getting further and further away from a free society and that is why I choose to no longer stay silent with things I understand.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Social distancing measures CRUSHED influenza in MN this year. To bad they didn't work against coronahoax. I'm just excited comrade Xiden might let let me take my shirt sleeves off my face and sew them back onto my shirt by fourth of July. Hopefully when he wakes up after milk and cookies he can do something about the super spreader event at the southern border. Murders in the twin cities outpacing coronahoax deaths across the state. Thank God Walz extend his imperial powers to crush small business. My neighbor still cant run his bar past 11pm cause those are the hours corona spreads.

Just amazing to me that this graph for previous years looks just like the graph for coronahoax....

 

[Bill]

If I smoke two packs of cigarettes and down a bottle of whiskey in a single day, and don't die that day, does that then prove those things are safe?

spent some time as a lad testing this theory. You sir are correct, those are perfectly safe!

 

[Bill Loser]

spent some time as a lad testing this theory. You sir are correct, those are perfectly safe!

Reminds me of a guy i used to work with.dingleberry used to drink mountain dew by the 2 liter bottle probably 2 to 3 a day, at the same time he smoked at least a pack a day and he chewed the whole time he did all the rest. Everyday at lunch hed say " i just dont understand why i dont feel good"
Dumb ass. Lol

 

[OakSeeds]

Since I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't choose to run with (think support) either of the big dogs in this tussle (my beliefs are my own) ... I probably should take my pup and remain on the porch.
However, data accuracy and data sources should always be verified ... in the interest of good social science manifested as lucid and transparent discussions/debates. The only time-point-of-reference in post #3965 above is the last 5 yrs; I used that time period to examine the veracity of three statements central to the arguments being made. Since the CDC was mentioned repeatedly, I choose the CDC as my data source.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
Statements 1 & 2
"Does anyone else find it odd that the number of people that got Covid (28 million) is ironically close to the same number of flu cases the US gets on average every year (32.6 million)?"
"We average 32.6 million cases of the flu every year here in the US over the last 5 years"

Statements 1 & 2 are related. Using CDC data, the total number of cases of flu over the past 5 years is 172M or 34.4M average per year; therefore, the 32.6M cases mentioned in statement 2 is 1.8M lower than CDC estimates by 22.9% (34.4-32.6 = 1.8 divided by 32.6). I'll leave it to each individual to decide if that is "ironically close" from a statistical standpoint.

"I didn't suggest anywhere that this is a hoax although I am not convinced Covid is as deadly as it has been portrayed..."

Over the past 5 years, the flu has claimed the lives of 178K individuals or roughly 35,600 per year (likely would have been much higher without a flu vaccine).
Covid19, on the other hand, has laid waste to over 530,000 folks in essentially a single year (more deaths than WW1, WW2, and Vietnam combined). If even half the reported covid 19 deaths are bogus reports, the remaining 265,000 covid 19 deaths in a single year is 7+ times greater than the average annual flu death.
How one might look at this fact depends on whether one considers it in an absolute sense or relative to other diseases (e.g., flu virus or herpes/shingles virus).

Carry on gentlemen

 

[Barndog56]

Not going to argue your points, since I don't have any answers or even reasonable opinions beyond what you can find with a simple Google search. But I would like to clarify that the COVID/flu test detects each independently at the same time. You don't simply get a positive and flip a coin to see which disease caused it. You get a positive or negative for COVID and a positive or negative for Influenza. That having been said, I also have concerns regarding the lack of positive flu numbers. It doesn't make sense to me. But I have not had time to dig deeper into the data. However, my interpretation of this is that there is more to be learned.

This is complete bullshit. No one has been told they tested negative for Rona, but positive for flu.

 

[chummer]

Since I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't choose to run with (think support) either of the big dogs in this tussle (my beliefs are my own) ... I probably should take my pup and remain on the porch.
However, data accuracy and data sources should always be verified ... in the interest of good social science manifested as lucid and transparent discussions/debates. The only time-point-of-reference in post #3965 above is the last 5 yrs; I used that time period to examine the veracity of three statements central to the arguments being made. Since the CDC was mentioned repeatedly, I choose the CDC as my data source.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
Statements 1 & 2
"Does anyone else find it odd that the number of people that got Covid (28 million) is ironically close to the same number of flu cases the US gets on average every year (32.6 million)?"
"We average 32.6 million cases of the flu every year here in the US over the last 5 years"

Statements 1 & 2 are related. Using CDC data, the total number of cases of flu over the past 5 years is 172M or 34.4M average per year; therefore, the 32.6M cases mentioned in statement 2 is 1.8M lower than CDC estimates by 22.9% (34.4-32.6 = 1.8 divided by 32.6). I'll leave it to each individual to decide if that is "ironically close" from a statistical standpoint.

"I didn't suggest anywhere that this is a hoax although I am not convinced Covid is as deadly as it has been portrayed..."

Over the past 5 years, the flu has claimed the lives of 178K individuals or roughly 35,600 per year (likely would have been much higher without a flu vaccine).
Covid19, on the other hand, has laid waste to over 530,000 folks in essentially a single year (more deaths than WW1, WW2, and Vietnam combined). If even half the reported covid 19 deaths are bogus reports, the remaining 265,000 covid 19 deaths in a single year is 7+ times greater than the average annual flu death.
How one might look at this fact depends on whether one considers it in an absolute sense or relative to other diseases (e.g., flu virus or herpes/shingles virus).

Carry on gentlemen

I noticed you used cnn‘s favorite comparison of Covid deaths to war deaths. I really hate that comparison. The men that died in those wars did so for their country and in unspeakable conditions. You are comparing their sacrifice to people who died from a virus, mostly very old. The only comparison between them is that some of the seniors died at the orders of their governors as soldiers died from governments orders. How about from now on we compare Covid to cancer. Then maybe we can focus on the millions that get cancer every year. I wish Trump would have ran on being pro cancer. Just a hot bottom for me, carry on. F-cancer

 

[SD51555]

The right kind. The first rule of science is that nothing can ever be proven, only disproven. This is basic, man, basic, dating back to Karl Popper's falsification theory from the early 1900s - to be considered scientific a hypothesis must be able to be tested and conceivably proven false. I am sorry for your misunderstanding. How's bold instead of capitals work for you?

And having two words in caps isn't yelling, it's emphasizing, as you well know. But please, keep piling on in response to simple observations. It really makes your point of view seem so much more reasonable lol.

You're avoiding the question.

Why?

When have you or anyone involved in protecting state science admitted you were wrong about a single bit of this?

You're the man of superior character and intelligence to all of us that don't understand how real science works, so please help us. Name one thing you, any government scientist, any media, or any quasi-gov health agency have admitted they got wrong. You are the smartest one here. Please help us get in line and be safe. There are lives at stake here.

 

[Mortenson]

Reminds me of a guy i used to work with.dingleberry used to drink mountain dew by the 2 liter bottle probably 2 to 3 a day, at the same time he smoked at least a pack a day and he chewed the whole time he did all the rest. Everyday at lunch hed say " i just dont understand why i dont feel good"
Dumb ass. Lol

Yep. Eat less. Sweat more. Science knows that most the deaths were significantly overweight and/or old and compromised. Still sad, but definitely an agenda.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Since I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't choose to run with (think support) either of the big dogs in this tussle (my beliefs are my own) ... I probably should take my pup and remain on the porch.
However, data accuracy and data sources should always be verified ... in the interest of good social science manifested as lucid and transparent discussions/debates. The only time-point-of-reference in post #3965 above is the last 5 yrs; I used that time period to examine the veracity of three statements central to the arguments being made. Since the CDC was mentioned repeatedly, I choose the CDC as my data source.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
Statements 1 & 2
"Does anyone else find it odd that the number of people that got Covid (28 million) is ironically close to the same number of flu cases the US gets on average every year (32.6 million)?"
"We average 32.6 million cases of the flu every year here in the US over the last 5 years"

Statements 1 & 2 are related. Using CDC data, the total number of cases of flu over the past 5 years is 172M or 34.4M average per year; therefore, the 32.6M cases mentioned in statement 2 is 1.8M lower than CDC estimates by 22.9% (34.4-32.6 = 1.8 divided by 32.6). I'll leave it to each individual to decide if that is "ironically close" from a statistical standpoint.

"I didn't suggest anywhere that this is a hoax although I am not convinced Covid is as deadly as it has been portrayed..."

Over the past 5 years, the flu has claimed the lives of 178K individuals or roughly 35,600 per year (likely would have been much higher without a flu vaccine).
Covid19, on the other hand, has laid waste to over 530,000 folks in essentially a single year (more deaths than WW1, WW2, and Vietnam combined). If even half the reported covid 19 deaths are bogus reports, the remaining 265,000 covid 19 deaths in a single year is 7+ times greater than the average annual flu death.
How one might look at this fact depends on whether one considers it in an absolute sense or relative to other diseases (e.g., flu virus or herpes/shingles virus).

Carry on gentlemen

The problem with the statistics is what is left out of them. There just so happens to be a disproportionate amount of “older” people in this country. A number that twenty years ago were in their “golden” age. We all have a shelf life. I see it every day in my line of work.


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[Bill Loser]

Since I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't choose to run with (think support) either of the big dogs in this tussle (my beliefs are my own) ... I probably should take my pup and remain on the porch.
However, data accuracy and data sources should always be verified ... in the interest of good social science manifested as lucid and transparent discussions/debates. The only time-point-of-reference in post #3965 above is the last 5 yrs; I used that time period to examine the veracity of three statements central to the arguments being made. Since the CDC was mentioned repeatedly, I choose the CDC as my data source.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
Statements 1 & 2
"Does anyone else find it odd that the number of people that got Covid (28 million) is ironically close to the same number of flu cases the US gets on average every year (32.6 million)?"
"We average 32.6 million cases of the flu every year here in the US over the last 5 years"

Statements 1 & 2 are related. Using CDC data, the total number of cases of flu over the past 5 years is 172M or 34.4M average per year; therefore, the 32.6M cases mentioned in statement 2 is 1.8M lower than CDC estimates by 22.9% (34.4-32.6 = 1.8 divided by 32.6). I'll leave it to each individual to decide if that is "ironically close" from a statistical standpoint.

"I didn't suggest anywhere that this is a hoax although I am not convinced Covid is as deadly as it has been portrayed..."

Over the past 5 years, the flu has claimed the lives of 178K individuals or roughly 35,600 per year (likely would have been much higher without a flu vaccine).
Covid19, on the other hand, has laid waste to over 530,000 folks in essentially a single year (more deaths than WW1, WW2, and Vietnam combined). If even half the reported covid 19 deaths are bogus reports, the remaining 265,000 covid 19 deaths in a single year is 7+ times greater than the average annual flu death.
How one might look at this fact depends on whether one considers it in an absolute sense or relative to other diseases (e.g., flu virus or herpes/shingles virus).

Carry on gentlemen

I would bet the farm the actual number is nowhere near 1/2 of what is reported. Reports from all over about fraudulent claims of covid from carwrecks to cancer
Hell the tiny town im from there was 4 that i know of. Thats just what was caught.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

The dems know there time is limited. It has been nothing more than a big money grab from the word go.


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[BuckSutherland]

I would bet the farm the actual number is nowhere near 1/2 of what is reported. Reports from all over about fraudulent claims of covid from carwrecks to cancer
Hell the tiny town im from there was 4 that i know of. Thats just what was caught.

I roofed my first house of the season two weeks ago. The delivery guy from the lumberyard told me his dad died from a heart attack at home this winter. Never tested for coronahoax and never in the hospital. Died in his lazyboy. Death certificate said he died from the Rona.


Another local guy that I knew growing up died from leukemia. The local hospital put corona on his. Local radio station reported it that way as well, and even mentioned his name on air. The hospital and the radio station have now been sued.


Absolutely some people died from this shit, but nowhere near what they are saying.

 

[OakSeeds]

I noticed you used cnn‘s favorite comparison of Covid deaths to war deaths. I really hate that comparison. The men that died in those wars did so for their country and in unspeakable conditions. You are comparing their sacrifice to people who died from a virus, mostly very old. The only comparison between them is that some of the seniors died at the orders of their governors as soldiers died from governments orders. How about from now on we compare Covid to cancer. Then maybe we can focus on the millions that get cancer every year. I wish Trump would have ran on being pro cancer. Just a hot bottom for me, carry on. F-cancer

Your wish is my command ..... https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cancer-deaths-by-age?country=~USA Year 2017 ... last year for which I found data
Chum ...,. thanks for suggesting cancer for comparison purposes; I hadn't thought of it.

Age Group Number of Cancer Deaths
15-49 -- 34,717
50-69 -- 262,203
70+ -- 400,782

Just like Covid, cancer disproportionately impacts older persons. Many would argue - like the Covid argument (you don't die from, you die with) - that cancer does not kill you; it merely sets your body up for organ failure or some other catastrophe. According to the CDC, life expectancy in the U.S. is almost 79 years ... if we accept STF's assertion that current cancer victums ... "twenty years ago were in their “golden” age" ... that would be 79yrs-20yrs = 59yrs .... right in the middle of the age group 50-69 in the chart above. I doubt many of those 26K+ folks, or their loved ones, readily accepted that their "shelf-life" had expired in their golden years.
While I too detest the way cancer ravishes people, I'd bet you will find the distribution of cancer deaths - by age group - to be very similar to the distribution of covid deaths by age group. Two additional differences between the two conditions seem worthy of note. Almost all covid victums die alone (without family members to comfort them and often comforted by medical personnel) and the time to death -from the onset of the disease - is probably - on average - much shorter for covid victums. We should all pray that science will some day eliminate all forms of cancer.

There are mitigation factors for avoiding both covid and cancer; but they differ in an important aspect. Covid is contagious while cancer is pretty much thought not to be contagious. Consequently, mitigation factors for covid are largely social in nature; isolation/non-congregant behavior, social distancing, avoid hand shakes, personal hygiene, mask wearing (in deference to strong feelings of some I almost excluded masks). Mitigation factors for cancer are largely personal in nature; avoid smoking or inhalation of toxic chemicals like asbestos or radon (don't stand downwind from a pile of burning seed bags that contained treated seeds), healthy diet, regular exercise and appropriate testing - for both men and women - at various stages in life.

Finally, I was NOT comparing the tragic-death-sacrifices of American soldiers with the death of older Americans in some disrespectful fashion; I was only drawing a comparison to illustrate the magnitude (numbers) of the covid deaths. I would also note a Commander-in-Chief who did a little Flag-wrapping when he declared himself as a "War President." fighting the covid scourge. Does that diminish the sacrifices of American Soldiers who fought in defense of the united States?

 

[Bill Loser]

I roofed my first house of the season two weeks ago. The delivery guy from the lumberyard told me his dad died from a heart attack at home this winter. Never tested for coronahoax and never in the hospital. Died in his lazyboy. Death certificate said he died from the Rona.


Another local guy that I knew growing up died from leukemia. The local hospital put corona on his. Local radio station reported it that way as well, and even mentioned his name on air. The hospital and the radio station have now been sued.


Absolutely some people died from this shit, but nowhere near what they are saying.

I know of one here that died in a car crash, the cause was rona. Heart attack? Rona, there was the motorcyclist in florida, crash? Nope rona.

 

[Bill Loser]

Your wish is my command ..... https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cancer-deaths-by-age?country=~USA Year 2017 ... last year for which I found data

Age Group Number of Cancer Deaths
15-49 -- 34,717
50-69 -- 262,203
70+ -- 400,782

Just like Covid, cancer disproportionately impacts older persons. Many would argue - like the Covid argument (you don't die from, you die with) - that cancer does not kill you; it merely sets your body up for organ failure or some other catastrophe. According to the CDC, life expectancy in the U.S. is almost 79 years ... if we accept STF's assertion that current cancer victums ... "twenty years ago were in their “golden” age" ... that would be 79yrs-20yrs = 59yrs .... right in the middle of the age group 50-69 in the chart above. I doubt many of those 26K+ folks, or their loved ones, readily accepted that their "shelf-life" had expired in their golden years.
While I too detest the way cancer ravishes people, I'd bet you will find the distribution of cancer deaths - by age group - to be very similar to the distribution of covid deaths by age group. Two additional differences between the two conditions seem worthy of note. Almost all covid victums die alone (without family members to comfort them and often comforted by medical personnel) and the time to death -from the onset of the disease - is probably - on average - much shorter for covid victums. We should all pray that science will some day eliminate all forms of cancer.

Finally, I was NOT comparing the tragic-death-sacrifices of American soldiers with the death of older Americans in some disrespectful fashion; I was only drawing a comparison to illustrate the magnitude (numbers) of the covid deaths. I would also note a Commander-in-Chief who did a little Flag-wrapping when he anointed himself as a "War President." fighting the covid scourge. Does that diminish the sacrifices of American Soldiers who fought in defense of the united States?

The better comparison would be cold or flu, if either of those were reported the way the covihoax is we would never be allowed to leave the house.
Then there is the fact that when one dies of cancer , if you happened to have a cold at the time of death they dont report it as a cold death, but with the covid they do. They were trying to inflate the numbers and keep them inflated to scare the weakest of our society and use that fear to control them and then the rest of us.
And S.D., i would like to throw this in on the admitting when they are wrong question. They dont admit they were wrong for one reason, because they weren't wrong. They straight up knowingly lied. Lied about everyrhing from the start and continue to lie now. It started with the head "dr" Fauchi and how he pretended to not know what this was. Of course he knew what it was right from the start. He is the one who ran the group who developed this massively dangerous(lol) virus. He knew from the start what it was and how to handle it. But he used it to make more money.
On the fauchi note, i listened to an interveiw yesterday with the gentleman who invented the pcr (is that correct? Its early!) Test for influenza that they are using for covid. In his words, Fauchi knows nothing and is not qualified to be giving the advice he is giving.
So we have an unqualified, undisputable liar leading the combat of the common cold. What could go wrong?

 

[Knehrke]

You're avoiding the question.

Why?

When have you or anyone involved in protecting state science admitted you were wrong about a single bit of this?

You're the man of superior character and intelligence to all of us that don't understand how real science works, so please help us. Name one thing you, any government scientist, any media, or any quasi-gov health agency have admitted they got wrong. You are the smartest one here. Please help us get in line and be safe. There are lives at stake here.

How is it that even a straightforward answer is met with criticism and disdain? I'm not sure why I'd even bother, but since you asked directly, here you go. The two most obvious answers are first, the mask mandate and second, more recently, the 6 foot rule, as pertains to schooling.

There was originally uncertainty over whether masks protected against COVID. The guidance was not clear. When the top cheese issued a clear mandate, the country erupted. Lies! Waffling! Communism! Nope, just new facts that caused a change in position to better reflect the science. There are lots of internet rumors out there about various nefarious reasons that motivated the decision, but coincidentally, the mask mandates started soon after the major route of transmission was identified (and other routes were shown to be much less likely). But it seems easier to scream at your computer than to accept that maybe folks were mistaken and owned it.

You may also recall that the CDC is set to recommend 3 feet rather than 6 between kids at school - to help get them back, which is as I read it one of the principle concerns of many on here. If this isn't a "quasi-gov health agency" as you put it admitting they got it wrong, well then I guess we see the world through quite differently tinted glasses.

Alright, your turn to tear apart these simple, direct answers to your questions - low hanging fruit in a ripe orchard - as science is self-correcting by nature, and examples of being wrong on the way to better understanding abound. But I'm sure that your opinion is much more informed.

And thank you for your kind comments on my training and character. I'm sure that our president also appreciates your respect. I think I liked your snarky statements in Russian better. They made me laugh. So does this, but in a despairing way...

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I know we all have our own opinions, and we all look at the facts differently to see what we want to see. We all can look at the same charts and come up with completely opposite opinions of each other. Then we can fight over our opinions daily, but in the end the only fact that pisses me off is the government telling me what to do, and what not to do. If they want to put together charts and say what ever they want, good for them. But stop trying to run my life from your opinion of the facts. On a daily basis I take risks many times more dangerous then walking into a restaurant without a mask on, or standing 6 feet from someone. Let me do me, you do you. Kinda like if we lived in a free country, where the government doesn’t control our daily lives.

 

[Tap]

I know we all have our own opinions, and we all look at the facts differently to see what we want to see. We all can look at the same charts and come up with completely opposite opinions of each other. Then we can fight over our opinions daily, but in the end the only fact that pisses me off is the government telling me what to do, and what not to do. If they want to put together charts and say what ever they want, good for them. But stop trying to run my life from your opinion of the facts. On a daily basis I take risks many times more dangerous then walking into a restaurant without a mask on, or standing 6 feet from someone. Let me do me, you do you. Kinda like if we lived in a free country, where the government doesn’t control our daily lives.

What happened to "It's my body"? I guess that only applies to killing babies.

 

[Bill Loser]

What happened to "It's my body"? I guess that only applies to killing babies.

Its only your body if you conform to the lefts agenda.

On the bright side, IF we do everything we are told and dont question anything, ever, maybe, just maybe we will be allowed to have a SMALL 4th of July party. So please guys, dont f this up for the rest of us. Comrade Biden has degreed it, so it will be. WTF