Coronavirus

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I have a question, if you'd be willing to help...

Now that there is a new strain in the UK, will there need to be another vaccine for the new strain? Or do we ride it out and hope for the best?
To my understanding, the UK variant has 23 individual mutations that result in 17 changes to the amino acid sequence in the spike protein- the part that allows the virus to bind to its target and enter cells - but their individual or collective impact on vaccine efficacy is thought to be small. This is because when you're vaccinated, and the mRNA makes a piece of viral protein that stimulates an immune response, your system makes many different antibodies to the target protein. It is highly likely that some of these antibodies will still be effective.

However, it is possible that there is a particular region of the spike protein that, when targeted, allows for a really strong immune reaction and better viral clearance. If that piece is mutated, then the repertoire of kick-a$$ antibodies your body makes might be diminished. In other words, the virus got rid of its Achilles heel. But remember, the spike protein has to maintain certain characteristics to function, so it can't just mutate into something that is unrecognizable.

Still, it's never good to know that your enemy is adaptable.
 
Copy and paste....
 
To my understanding, the UK variant has 23 individual mutations that result in 17 changes to the amino acid sequence in the spike protein- the part that allows the virus to bind to its target and enter cells - but their individual or collective impact on vaccine efficacy is thought to be small. This is because when you're vaccinated, and the mRNA makes a piece of viral protein that stimulates an immune response, your system makes many different antibodies to the target protein. It is highly likely that some of these antibodies will still be effective.

However, it is possible that there is a particular region of the spike protein that, when targeted, allows for a really strong immune reaction and better viral clearance. If that piece is mutated, then the repertoire of kick-a$$ antibodies your body makes might be diminished. In other words, the virus got rid of its Achilles heel. But remember, the spike protein has to maintain certain characteristics to function, so it can't just mutate into something that is unrecognizable.

Still, it's never good to know that your enemy is adaptable.
I’m pretty sure that is how X-men started.
 
I think i counted 18 changes to the amino acid which means we now have a sasquatch virus
 
Still, it's never good to know that your enemy is adaptable.
Isn't that the same deal with all corona viruses? They readily and easily mutate? Kinda like the common cold?
 
Hmmmmmm.....
 
With only 7 days left you can make a projection just like they do in an election. When you have 99% of the year done,. you can make a reasonable call on the remaining 1%.

There are plenty of facts in the article,.. It is not meant to be scary,.. it is an article on the facts of the death rate in the USA this year.

Sorry the AP is a reputable news organization. It is neither left nor right leaning, and has been that way for a long time.

You can check out its reputation media bias and leanings here


I guess enough people have said it already but, AP not biased? Hahahahahahahahaha
 
Isn't that the same deal with all corona viruses? They readily and easily mutate? Kinda like the common cold?
Yeah, most viruses can mutate...just like most animals, people, etc. One of the experiments we do in the lab is to "force" evolution in bacteria, which have a doubling time of 20 minutes. The rapid propagation rate allows for beneficial mutations to accumulate in the population in a time frame we can easily assess. If we challenge them with stress, they mutate to accommodate it. Not in a thinking way, but in a way that random mutations are self selecting under pressure. It's also why we thaw a new vial of our chosen model organism C. elegans every six months - we need to make sure that we are working with a "clean", fixed genetic background when we pursue new genetic approaches. Otherwise we can't address cause and effect.

I think that coronavirus's mutation rate is middle of the road in the viral repertoire. And I don't know about X-men or Sasquatch, but I'm fairly certain about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
 
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Not the one with whom you are arguing... but... you might need to be slower to throw stones, Knehrke.

Original case fatality rate estimates back in the March - April time frame ran the gamut between 3% to 6%... BUT... what these rates did not factor in were the tremendously high number of asymptomatic cases among the young and relatively healthy.

There actually are numerous peer-reviewed studies now pointing to infectious fatality rates of approximately 0.2% to 0.3%. These studies have come from multiple countries / locations where instead of merely calculating infectious death rates based on CASES reported, much more widespread testing was done with the result of identifying extremely high numbers of people who had contracted coronavirus without even realizing they had it / without suffering ANY noticeable ill effects.

One such location is Iceland where between 40% to 50% of those found to have antibodies in widespread testing (whether sick or not) were found to have been asymptomatic after contracting COVID 19.

To put the 0.3% infectious fatality rate into perspective, annual influenza infection fatality rates average around 0.1%, so overall covid appears to be 2 to 3 times as deadly as the typical flu versus original estimates of being 30 to 60 times more deadly. Worth noting, multiple studies now show covid is actually LESS lethal than standard flu strains to those between the age of 0 and 50. To the contrary, however, the fatality rates are higher and grow statistically much more significantly higher with the combination of advanced age and additional comorbidities.

If you wish, Knehrke, I'll share links to these updated study numbers -- most have been released within the past two months, so anyone reading / pointing to aged data between March and the summer months are speaking to extremely flawed data biased by severe cases that did NOT include calculations for those asymptomatic and / or with very mild cases.

Now for some local data from my area both on a micro-level (admittedly anecdotal) and with a bit more statistical significance. First, the smaller scale personal note -- within our small medical practice 6 of 16 employees have had covid. 3 of the 6 cases the employees never ran fevers or had any symptoms beyond briefly losing their sense of taste -- that was their ONLY symptom. 2 of the employees had symptoms I would classify the equivalent of a mild cold. Finally, the 6th employee only had a severe headache -- that was her ONLY symptom. If not for awareness of covid, had it been a prior year I can tell you with relative confidence that these employees all would have opted to continue working except the one with the day-long severe headache (while her only symptom, she said it was the worst headache she could remember). I should stress that the age of these employees was relatively young -- between early 20s and early 40s.

Now for more statistically significant data -- I live just outside Leon County / Florida's capital city of Tallahassee. In a county with a population of 300,000 there have been 171 deaths out of 17,800 confirmed cases with the emphasis that unlike Iceland our area has NOT pushed for testing of ALL our citizens / those asymptomatic, but instead have strongly steered limited testing capacity to those actually having symptoms. If I'm doing my math right, that's a known case fatality rate of a single percent, so NOT a big stretch to believe that with the inclusion of all those who have been asymptomatic and uncounted that our rate would ABSOLUTELY fall well under 1 percent / at most likely be half a percent.

And not trying to be anti-science nor anti-vax with that data share, but do I believe it worth crippling an economy for a supposed scary pandemic that's only managed to kill 1 in 1,000 for my area over the course of nearly an entire year, with half the deaths among those very old and / or already sick -- ABSOLUTELY not. And does it also make me question the validity of pushing vaccines on those who already have antibodies / those who are young and face less risk of the disease than from the flu / etc --- ABSOLUTELY so. Finally, do I find it extremely reasonable that those who are over the age of 50 to 60 and especially those with serious comorbidities to opt (of their own choosing) to receive vaccination -- ABSOLUTELY so.

Believe I'm sharing flawed data, can't back it up with up-to-date scientific journals just let me know.

I haven’t read much of this long thread, but was thinking of your data from Iceland.

For my county, I took the number of positive tests and divided it into the population and came up with 8% have had a confirmed infection.

Then I saw a report by Dr ScottJensen who is a state senator and an experienced medical doctor in family practice. He says the Minnesota Drpartment of Health feels 4-6 times as many people have been infected as there are positive tests.

Take 6 times our counties 8% positive tests and you have 48% which is close to natural herd immunity.

I feel this herd immunity and weather changes have started to reduce cases in our county and probably our state and adjacent states.

On a very local basis, nearly every family has had a positive case and others in the family have shown some signs with negative or no tests.


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I have seen corona in cattle for years. It spreads more with damp weather, with crowding, and with ‘ closed window’ season.

There are cattle vaccines for corona with lots of claims about different strains and which vaccine strain is best for which strain.

Bottom line, we should have expected a peak this fall and it happened. Peaks will be different in other states with different climates, and humidity... and any reason to close windows.

I still feel we would have been better off with more people infected during the open window season in our climate.

Open windows might mean a lower exposed dose and less severe illness in those cases. Might. One of my fellow veterinarians in swine practice feels lower exposed doses often leads to less severe disease. He was speaking of viruses in general, not specifically corona.


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Supposedly, that's one of benefits of masks - not only do they slow (not stop, but slow) the spread of virus, they may reduce the viral load, resulting in less severe disease. I agree with you on the "might", but it seems like a reasonable thing.
 
Interesting viewpoint. You ever watch "Longmire"? One of the characters feels the same as you.

IMHO, one of the purposes of government is to govern...that is, to set rules that we all need to live by, based (hopefully) on the will of the people. This includes mandating, although mandates are again, IMHO, a necessary evil and should only be used in emergency situations.

What do you feel is the purpose of government? I'm truly interested, not being snarky at all.
 
Interesting viewpoint. You ever watch "Longmire"? One of the characters feels the same as you.

IMHO, one of the purposes of government is to govern...that is, to set rules that we all need to live by, based (hopefully) on the will of the people. This includes mandating, although mandates are again, IMHO, a necessary evil and should only be used in emergency situations.

What do you feel is the purpose of government? I'm truly interested, not being snarky at all.
There isn't a person on the grid that doesn't know there's a nasty bug going around. The difference is, we're suddenly legislating dictating safety with an iron fist. We've never done it with flu. We don't ban travel during snow storms. We haven't banned ice fishing. We still feed poor people junk food. We don't mandate safety gear for home chainsaw operation. Vehicles still operate if the driver isn't wearing a seat belt. The opportunistic government is selectively playing nanny with a population that doesn't need it.

People that want to live in a padded cell under the apron of a socialist, have at it. I'd rather live than stare at the wall and wonder if this is the end of freedom, socializing, the dollar, and live women's wrestling.

I bet a lot more people would have played ball had we been able to do this on our own vs dictators ramming BS special rules down our throats.
 
Your right the purpose is to govern. But legislatures are supposed to start the process, not the governor mandating. Same with federal. I don't like one person making the decision for all, it should be the elected representatives starting the process and the governor or president approving. I still might not like it but no one person should decide lockdowns, masks etc. That my friends, sets a very dangerous precedence. I don't care for executive orders even if I agree with them. Unfortunately this type of government is not meant to move quickly and there is a good reasong for that. It can be detrimental in a situation like this but that is the cost of freedom. I think what most on here are saying is that this is not enough of an emergency to make these mandates that are severely hurting people. The so called cure is worse that the virus.
 
Live women's wrestling is at risk?! Why didn't you lead with that? What kind of the horror show would ban live women's wrestling lol? GLOW is one of my favorite binge worthy shows. At last we have a common cause!

Seriously, though, keep it coming. I'm off for the next two days and want to dig deep into this. I think that it's as close to a fundamental difference of opinion as I've been able to think of. I may not agree, but I love the process.

The biggest difference that I see with all the activities that SD mentions above and the current COVID mandates is that the risk incurred by those activities is limited to the person taking the risk (with the possible exception of first responders and the idiots who challenge the ice gods), while risks with COVID put the major burden on the rest of society. I may be asymptomatic or have a slight sniffle, but the guy or gal I pass it to could die. That's a sobering thought for me. I think that a primary role of government is to mitigate an individual risk's impact on society-at-large.
 
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America is founded on civil liberty and freedom. Any liberties or freedoms easily given up by the public will be hard fought to regain from the government. Once its gone its gone they arent going to give it back.
And the mandates are to protect others not you argument is getting old. Never do we give up rights as we have been forced to for this overblown farce of a pandemic.

It actually makes me sad to see all these Americans living in fear because the government and the media tells them to.
 
Masks protect the person wearing it. When they turned it into a criminal offense to not wear a mask for the protection of others the writing was all over the wall. The more government is involved in controlling the people the more freedoms we will continue to lose.
 
And no i dont watch longmire. Never even heard of it.
 
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