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Knehrke said:
None of the above. Like you, I want to believe (aka Fox Mulder lol). It's tough at times. But if my math demonstration was appropriate for a 7th grader, then why is it so hard to grasp? I'm a numbers guy. Like TreeDaddy, I know all the different ways to torture them. I call BS on bad science for a career. My point, which really shouldn't be contentious, is that it's better to have a 4% chance of dying than a 75% chance of dying, even if the "relative rate of increase" is greater in the 4% bracket over the past few months. This is what we call a ceiling effect (sorry if this is grade school, but it bears emphasizing). It is not a difficult concept, and I can't imagine anyone wanting to debate it. So, why the grief? I can only conclude because you can't let somebody else be right if it means you were wrong.

As for why misinformation is so prevalent on the internet and whether you contribute to it, only you would know. I have no idea who you are. But you can look me up anytime - my information is public. My only agenda is health care and the science of medicine.
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I won't presume to know your motives or emotional shortcomings. I accept your apology. Let's move on, because this keeps getting better and better for America. I can't wait to hear the excuse for this one.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Source: CDC <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Today, we discover that shutting down all health care and dangling a hefty bonus to hospitals for stamping covid on all death certificates with zero oversight lead to some number fudgery. We've previously discovered only 5% of deaths involved people under 75 with no-comorbidities. Now, over half of the total deaths had nothing to do with the deadly global coronavirus pandemic at all.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321128528398614528

 
It’s not just deaths either, it’s hospitalizations also. Cuomo has been badgering western NY about increasing hospitalizations. Going to take away funding and this and that. The Erie County executive who so far has been behind Cuomo explicitly finally had enough. He said people are going in for surgeries, having heart attacks, sprained ankles and everything else under the sun. Once in the hospital they are tested and if positive count as a Covid hospitalization. Skewing the numbers widely. These people are not in the hospital for Covid yet they are counted As such. I don’t mind believing in numbers but, the numbers involved anywhere about this Covid pandemic just can’t be believed It’s finally sinking in to enough people to see it for what it really is.
 
You guys,.. we all got it wrong,.. we did not have to wait till the end of the elections for Covid to disappear.

Covid is over NOW,.. it's been BEATEN! Like today !!!!

www.politico.com

White House science office takes credit for 'ending' pandemic as infections mount

It’s the latest inaccurate claim from the administration on the severity of the pandemic.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

Man that is awesome news,.. heading out to party now!
WHOOT!
 
The chevy dealer next door has it running through the entire place. They wear masks before they walk in the door and keep them on the entire day until after they walk out the door. Tell me why mask work again? This is ALL BS!!!
 
Knehrke said:
Are you not reading my posts? I just did.

There's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

And I am not a pro-panic guy by any means. In fact, I'm the voice of moderation in our medical community. It's only someone on an extreme who would think that way.
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I can appreciate a different point of view and always enjoy debating things (as adults) but the medical community/science isn't exactly as virtuous as they promote themselves to be, and neither is the pharmaceutical manufacturers. Maybe you recall the early fearmongering reports of testing surface contamination/spread of Covid? They said it can live on cardboard for 48 hours and stainless steel for up to 2 weeks, supposedly science came up with this answer but then they changed it to much much less time the virus survives on surfaces. Either they did the tests or they didn't, the science doesn't change here. You apply the virus to a surface, then test it in a timely fashion and record your results. The only possible argument here could be that the early tests weren't accurate, but then there would be a disclaimer for the inaccuracies of the tests which never surfaced.
Would you agree that money and greed corrupt everything it touches? If your answer is yes then I am fairly certain that you would agree that making Covid death or hospitalization 20% more profitable has corrupted the numbers themselves.
Do you agree that the media is opinion driven as opposed to fact driven in general? If you answer yes then I am fairly certain that you understand why there are people shot in the head counted as a Covid death. Initially George Floyd was counted as a Covid death, that didn't last long once the public heard about it.
NY is as corrupt as any other place in the US, I can safely say that being a NY'er, corruption is everywhere. Cuomo started an "Anti-corruption Taskforce" to investigate any corruption here in NY. It was effective and working right up until Sheldon Silvers was arrested and it was getting to close to Cuomo and he disband the taskforce. Look it up, it is no joke, I am not putting you on here. Nursing home deaths in NY dropped significantly right after Cuomo changed his Executive Order (because of sudden public scrutiny) back in June (if memory serves), it went from sending positive Covid patients to Nursing homes to recover - to - not sending any outsiders to nursing homes (including family to visit) when anyone with Covid is declining in health in a nursing home they get shipped to a hospital. On the surface it appears to be the right move (and really it is) but within the writing of this it includes changing the way nursing home deaths are counted. Before a resident of a nursing home died it was accurately counted as a nursing home death, now it is counted as a death in the hospital, it also credits the hospitalization number to the hospital, not the nursing home as it was prior.

Most of these points are so you understand how the numbers are manipulated to tell a story as opposed to representing the facts. You just aren't much of a skeptic friend, you feel media accurately reports everything, it doesn't. The Hunter Biden laptop is a solid example, there are articles stating why each news source isn't reporting because the story lacks merit. Yet Tony Bobulinski confirmed enough to start reporting it but they still refuse or report it as "Russian disinformation". What was actually was Russian disinformation was the Steele Dossier, all those refusing to cover Hunters Laptop today happily covered the Russian hoax for almost 3 years using "anonymous sources" the whole way while suggesting (without any facts) the whole time that Trump colluded with Russia to win in 2016, that was all a lie yet they reported it every day.

When you control the information, you control what people think and how they feel. Gosh that was way longer than intended but it flowed so I am posting it lol
 
I went back to work this Monday after the third separate instance of being quarantined over this.

The first time was in the final week of March when my wife was sick with a fever, body aches, and shortness of breath. Back then they were only testing those admitted to the hospital, but told us just to assume she had it and self quarantine. She was sick for about 5 days.

The first weekend of October I duck hunted with my son in law, only to find out on Monday that his live in fiance tested positive. She caught it at work where everyone wears masks. The only symptom she had was loss of taste and smell. I got tested on Tuesday, with negative results on Friday.

Then on Saturday the 17th I got sick, with body aches, runny nose, sore throat. Called into work on Monday, they requested I get tested. Tested on Tuesday, negative results back on Friday. Under normal circumstances I would have been back to work on Wednesday.

We have to wear masks at work, and anywhere I go in public. How did I get sick with this flu or cold that I had??

Anyway, from early on we've known that Covid is only dangerous to the old and those with co-morbidities. Guidance should have been to tell those people how best to avoid catching it, and let the healthy people keep living their lives.
 
Luckily I've stayed away from most news broadcasts for couple months and don't miss any of it. You really can't escape staying up with the current political or Covid crap as it pops up on any internet site anyways.
But I have found the news agencies distortion of the information hilarious for decades no matter which side one is on.
They remind me of the days when Russian had two official soviet newspapers. The Pravda and the Izvestia. Now it was a running joke with any of us dealing with the Russians in those days as there was no "truth" in Pravda, and no "news" in Izvestia. If you know any Russian then you understand. We have become them, just different names.
Now go vote and slow the demise of this great nation. Covid or no Covid!!! This chit should've ran its path months ago, protecting the compromised. What a cluster. And yes I fit into the "risk" group. And quite capable of interpreting scientific misinformation without any translation for my ignorant mind. Sure been a fun thread tho. One can get tired of looking at another picture of my clover plot. Carry on.

"Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily". Napoleon
 
Barndog56 said:
I went back to work this Monday after the third separate instance of being quarantined over this.

The first time was in the final week of March when my wife was sick with a fever, body aches, and shortness of breath. Back then they were only testing those admitted to the hospital, but told us just to assume she had it and self quarantine. She was sick for about 5 days.

The first weekend of October I duck hunted with my son in law, only to find out on Monday that his live in fiance tested positive. She caught it at work where everyone wears masks. The only symptom she had was loss of taste and smell. I got tested on Tuesday, with negative results on Friday.

Then on Saturday the 17th I got sick, with body aches, runny nose, sore throat. Called into work on Monday, they requested I get tested. Tested on Tuesday, negative results back on Friday. Under normal circumstances I would have been back to work on Wednesday.

We have to wear masks at work, and anywhere I go in public. How did I get sick with this flu or cold that I had??

Anyway, from early on we've known that Covid is only dangerous to the old and those with co-morbidities. Guidance should have been to tell those people how best to avoid catching it, and let the healthy people keep living their lives.
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At least the testing people have become familiar with you. Lol. You just can’t win. I have been extremely careful in public also. Still got sick several times. Sore throat, cough and shortness of breath. How does it happen. I don’t know. Every time I say when I get better I’ll go get an antibody test. So far haven’t done it. Lol.
 
The long term effects that are unknown could be bad.I have had 2 friends get it and die.Yes they were older but in good health and worked every day until they got covid.My best friends 26 year old spent a week in ICU,no other conditions.
 
Where in the Country are you located?
 
BuckSutherland said:
I'm not a math guy by any means. Where are you grabbing 4% from?? 80-75 = 5.

View attachment 32405
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There's some arguments that can never be won, but this at least is easy to address.

I was wrong. I should have said 6.67%. and you are correct. That wasn't so hard! I should have grabbed a calculator lol!

My point about ceiling effects remains valid though. The higher the percentage, the less of a relative increase is possible (ie, the number I screwed up).

So much for my being a numbers guy...
 
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We just need to stay locked down until:

We have time to accumulate PPE for medical workers
15 days to slow the spread
We flatten the curve
We conduct 100,000 tests per day
Until we can develop treatments
Until we get a vaccine
?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321484035714125831
 
I'm positive this next goal will stick, and it will be safe for Carrie Underwood and Sasha Banks to start touring again.

Where to next science?
 
Science answers: read back to previous posts (if you have a spare 50 hours or so) - as a community, we have constantly preached that a vaccine is a long-shot, some viruses are susceptible, some are not. And that it would take time to validate both safety and efficacy. I'm fairly certain that it hasn't been scientists preaching that a vaccine will be available before the election (thanks, Donald, for setting us up).
 
Oh, for cricket's sake, you got me to reply. Do not engage. Repeat, do not engage. It only encourages them...
 
Knehrke said:
Science answers: read back to previous posts (if you have a spare 50 hours or so) - as a community, we have constantly preached that a vaccine is a long-shot, some viruses are susceptible, some are not. And that it would take time to validate both safety and efficacy. I'm fairly certain that it hasn't been scientists preaching that a vaccine will be available before the election (thanks, Donald, for setting us up).
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We do have vaccines available now already and it’s not even the election yet. 10s of thousands if not 100s of thousands of people around the world have taken these vaccines. So far nobody’s died and 2 cases of side effects have been investigated and not found to be related. So safety seems taken care of. In these late trials From Fauci up and down the spectrum they say all look very promising. I don’t think there’s anybody involved that has said oops they’ve failed. i don’t know if time is something we have to play with here. If it’s safe and these trials prove effective (very shortly). Let’s get it rolling. Warp speed ahead. Same as remdesivir. They stopped the trials because it was showing benefits. It was unethical to keep giving people a placebo when they could and should be given the actual drug.
 
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On a lighter note. Cuomo cancels Thanksgiving in NY.
 
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