Corn

[S.T.Fanatic]

Anybody mess around with open pollinated or any of the heirloom seeds? I have an isolated food plot that I am considering planting with an open pollinated corn variety. There are many things about them that intrigue me but not sure it is worth the expense or hassle.

Id like to up my cover game in a couple of my plots and see If I cant move away from herbicides anyway. I am limited to tillage and broadcasting seed or TNM so not sure if moving away from herbicides will work or not when it comes to corn and beans. Sure wish a no till drill was in the cards.

 

[MRBB]

I think you can plant corn and beans just fine without a drill, and just discing the seeds in, but the issue will still be seeds competing with the seeds for nutrients, many weeds just grow at faster rates

I have down a LOT of mixed plots of beans and corn, just disc'd into things and then come back a few weeks later hit with round up(all seeds are RR) and its made tons of corn and beans for me, deer however tend to eat all the beans FAST and then corn lasts a LOT longer
I personally don't see a major reason to get off round up, I know its a chemical and all, but I haven't seen enough issue's to stop using it, over its pro's
the time and money to plant corn/beans, why rish a weed crop over what you really want?
just my 2 cents here no offence meant!

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

My issue is attraction. It is a proven fact that deer (or any animal) will choose non gmo over gmo when given the choice. Any corn that is standing during or after hunting season is gmo corn. I would like to attempt to give the deer a reason to feed more on my side. I'm not overly concerned with weeds and would be satisfied with 100 bu/acre corn. If I had a no till drill i'd do it in a heartbeat with the corn but not without. (planting with traditional tillage will just give me weeds and the need for chemical)

I am considering sacrificing one of my plots to a TNM bean plot just to see how it turns out. I will be using RR seed this year and if i need to can always spray it. If the winter rye creates enough ground cover to shade out a good amount of the weeds and I can hold beans into late December I might go non gmo next year.

Chances are it'll grow up in weeds but I have enough plots and a low number of deer that I'm willing to find out.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

It's certainly worth a shot. I'm guessing if the deer draw for heirloom seeds was unbelievable there would be quite a market for them so we would hear about it. If cover is your main goal, then having a bunch of weeds in the field might be a good thing. If you need food to last through the rut into the late season weed control would help dramatically increase the yields.

 

[Catscratch]

It is a proven fact that deer (or any animal) will choose non gmo over gmo when given the choice.

I am considering sacrificing one of my plots to a TNM bean plot just to see how it turns out. I will be using RR seed this year and if i need to can always spray it. If the winter rye creates enough ground cover to shade out a good amount of the weeds and I can hold beans into late December I might go non gmo next year.

Chances are it'll grow up in weeds but I have enough plots and a low number of deer that I'm willing to find out.

Interesting... I've never heard that before.

I've done TNM beans before with success. It takes good rains for the first couple of weeks and good thatch cover to retain moisture, but it is very doable.

I just planted some floury corn yesterday. It's an experiment as I've never messed with it before. I didn't do TNM. I just took the skid steer and pointed the teeth on the bucket down so that it scraped out rows, then broadcast, and then ran the bucket over it flat to cover. I'll know in a few weeks how it works.

 

[j-bird]

All I will say is that without some means of weed control, chemical or otherwise, I fear your corn crop may have difficulties. Corn simply hates competition from ANYTHING....even corn. Beans are far more forgiving. I also think that the security cover near the plot is going to have far more to do with the deer using the plot than if it is GMO or non-GMO corn....just my personal opinion. Corn can be great, but man it has it's limitations and it's a picky PITA at times as well......and that's even when your trying to control the weeds with chemicals. Good luck. If you do this I would like to see GMO vs non-GMO side by side.....I have never heard the deer cared. Everything in my area is GMO so they don;t really have a choice!

 

[MRBB]

well you must have some great soil in your neck of the woods, in my area PRO farmers struggle to get a 250 bushel an acre corn, but our soils here are NOT that great
Good luck, but how long any food source lasts IMO is based on how much draw it has and how many critters eat it
better foods will pull more game to eat it, I have lost 3 acres of corn in late season(fenced off till late season, and seen it get eaten down to NOTHING in about 4 weeks, but have a crap load of deer and other wildlife feeding on it HARD come winter time, NOTHING to count a 100+ deer and turkey at once in fields yr round, come winter I pull deer from FAR away , plant 16 acres of food plots just for wildlife there and NEVER had to mow anything LOL

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Do a side by side with a trail camera. Most open pollinated corn will be 20% higher in protein and much more digestible


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[S.T.Fanatic]

Do a side by side with a trail camera. Most open pollinated corn will be 20% higher in protein and much more digestible


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This also goes for all organic crops



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[BobinCt]

MRBB- that’s insane!!

 

[MRBB]

MRBB- that’s insane!!

tell me about it, after almost 20 yrs of trying to reduce numbers and get buck to doe ratio's in check, I gave up on this one farm, was just too hard to keep anything working, for a great hunting property/farm
having close to 2,000 acres of NO legal hunting land next to it, and a private housing development near by that also had NO hunting, and a ton of folks feeding deer, deer numbers were off the chart , no matter how many deer I killed(some yrs over 50 L:EGALLY done) the following yr seemed like I never had one killed,
was like deer would just travel in the winter time to the standing corn and food, and then NEVER leave taking the place of all that were killed
add in the constant flow of trespassers, due to everyone in the area knew there were tons of deer , it was a never ending loosing battle, I gave it my all, and in the end, gave up LOL
if trespassing and illegal killing of deer didn;t happen the place would have been a gold mine, it was for yrs, but never could get a handle on management due to high numbers
and I sure thank God for the NWTF< for getting me discounted seeds over the yrs, I'm sure a lot of local critters there appreciated it too

 

[JFK52]

I do not have any problem growing RR ready crops for the deer. The eradication of the weeds gives me much better yields. A lot of my food plots are to ensure that the deer can survive Wisconsin winters. The more I can grow the better for the deer and turkeys.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I don't have a problem with RR either. The deer eat it they just would rather eat non gmo when given a choice. My deer numbers are low enough that yield isn't important to me. My 1/4-1/2 acre bean plots make it till Christmas and beyond. My sugar beets didnt get hit til mid Feb. and same goes for my turnips and radishes. I would just like to be able to compete with the neighbors corn through the hunting season. I won't be out more than one plot and if its a bust ill TNM into it in the fall. May do that anyway because deer eat corn off the ground better than off the stalk too.

 

[eclipseman]

My issue is attraction. It is a proven fact that deer (or any animal) will choose non gmo over gmo when given the choice. Any corn that is standing during or after hunting season is gmo corn. I would like to attempt to give the deer a reason to feed more on my side. I'm not overly concerned with weeds and would be satisfied with 100 bu/acre corn. If I had a no till drill i'd do it in a heartbeat with the corn but not without. (planting with traditional tillage will just give me weeds and the need for chemical)

I am considering sacrificing one of my plots to a TNM bean plot just to see how it turns out. I will be using RR seed this year and if i need to can always spray it. If the winter rye creates enough ground cover to shade out a good amount of the weeds and I can hold beans into late December I might go non gmo next year.

Chances are it'll grow up in weeds but I have enough plots and a low number of deer that I'm willing to find out.

I would like to see the "proof" you are talking about. I am very new to food plots but not new to plants/GMO discussion/ and animals (I have a biology degree). There are studies which show both sides. GMO stands for genetically modified organism as an FYI. Round up Ready Corn has been out for a very long time and there has been no ultimate conclusion that GMO is bad for people OR the environment (even though there are many activists who speak against it...just like the vaccine debate). It has also not been proven that wild life prefer one thing over another. Really think about it...how many times do you hear about people saying deer in their area will not touch brassica until a frost while in other regions people claim they hit brassicas weeks before frost sets in or how deer prefer white oak nuts over red but in many regions deer do just fine on reds? Do you taste a difference in GMO corn versus non? I highly doubt it. If you taste any difference it is much more likely one corn was more ripe than the other. The fact is deer can be picky about what they eat and depends on the situation. The deer hammered oats at my house and yet left the wheat standing...however just 8 miles down the road they tore apart the wheat and let the oats stand. I think you are reading into it too much. If deer look like they are preferring one area of corn over the other...it is more likely due to what the soil is like in those areas (pH/Nutrients) which will lead to different tasting corn. Just my two cents on the subject.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Again I'm not against RR crops. I don't think that they are needed though. We already produce way more corn than what is needed. (more of a hybrid issue than GMO but....)

It has been proven that non GMO crops are more nutrient rich. Animals could care less about taste, they are going to eat the feed that benefits them most (when given an option) I dont know how they know, but they do. This has been experimented with in domesticated animals and deer are no different.

I'm not saying it's going to be a game changer. I was simply asking others experiences and figured it would be worth a shot. I'm going to have corn left in my plot weather it's 100 BU/A or 200+ (which is not un common in my area). No matter how good or bad it tastes deer are going to eat it and it will be a small percent of their overall diet anyway.

One way to test usage (it has been done) is by planting some of the heirloom colored corns that are more of a novelty. Upon harvest open the rumen up to see what is in it. In one experiment a deers rumen was full of red corn even when it had other traditional corn to choose from in the area.

I plan on hunting and plotting for the remainder of my life so If I experiment with one of several plots I have once in a while not going to make or break anything. I will have plenty of opportunity to harvest deer if I have foodplots on the farm or not and so will the vast majority of you.

 

[eclipseman]

Again I'm not against RR crops. I don't think that they are needed though. We already produce way more corn than what is needed. (more of a hybrid issue than GMO but....)

It has been proven that non GMO crops are more nutrient rich. Animals could care less about taste, they are going to eat the feed that benefits them most (when given an option) I dont know how they know, but they do. This has been experimented with in domesticated animals and deer are no different.

I'm not saying it's going to be a game changer. I was simply asking others experiences and figured it would be worth a shot. I'm going to have corn left in my plot weather it's 100 BU/A or 200+ (which is not un common in my area). No matter how good or bad it tastes deer are going to eat it and it will be a small percent of their overall diet anyway.

One way to test usage (it has been done) is by planting some of the heirloom colored corns that are more of a novelty. Upon harvest open the rumen up to see what is in it. In one experiment a deers rumen was full of red corn even when it had other traditional corn to choose from in the area.

I plan on hunting and plotting for the remainder of my life so If I experiment with one of several plots I have once in a while not going to make or break anything. I will have plenty of opportunity to harvest deer if I have foodplots on the farm or not and so will the vast majority of you.

I understand where you are coming from but I believe you have been misinformed about your information. Animals do not necessarily eat what is good for them...hence overweight animals existing in many different situations. Bear are a good example of this. They will eat anything and everything in a dumpster regardless if it is good for them or not. How many animals are dying because they ate plastic...which is certainly also not good for them. Deer are no different, hence why even though a food plot of high protein source may be available to them...they still randomly eat bark on trees or briar bushes. They eat a variety of things. it has been proven that food plots should only account for 10-20% of a deer's diet with natural forages accounting for the other 80-90%. if they are eating more food plot than 10-20% of their diet then their natural browse needs to be managed and NOT the food plot. Sometimes this is not possible due to many factors such as what land you actually own that you can help manage. Again, no science has PROVEN that deer prefer non GMO to GMO nor has it proven that deer prefer what is HIGHLY nutritious for them. Again, rye grass is a great example. Deer will most certainly eat it and in many cases can be drawn to it and is the reason why it can be used as a nice secluded forest plot where nothing else will grow...however, it is certainly not optimal for deer and is actually only suggested for a kill plot type food plot in secluded areas where you cant amend the soil and nothing else will grow. If deer are not targeting one corn versus the other, it is most likely due to where that corn is growing causing it to be less palatable and unlikely about whether it is GMO or Non-GMO but to each their own I guess.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

You make some great points but.....

Deer choose to eat bark and twigs when other more nutrient rich offerings are available because they need the high fiber content of them to aid in digestion.

I'm also glad you mentioned the palatable aspect. Corn of past was more palatable than it is today. They have bred that out of it in search of traits that have greater standability. That is why it takes forever nowadays for corn stalks to decompose.

 

[Catscratch]

I can vouch for the "pickyness" of deer. I've planted many plots for side by side comparisons to help me decide what works best for my situation. If I were to go off the internet and what other's experience I would be missing out. My deer hate turnips, love radish tops, hardly touch winter rye and oats, hammer wheat like no tomorrow, and even have a soft spot for wheat heads in early summer. This all is pretty much the opposite of what is generally recommended on the forums, but is what my deer have shown me time and time again.

 

[j-bird]

So....the theory is pretty simple as I understand it. If all else is the same, deer would prefer non-RR corn vs RR corn????? Would be interesting..... I see nothing wrong with trying new things. I'm growing a garden inside an exclusion cage to target a single weekend of hunting.....so who am I to cast a stone? IF you can control the weeds.....I think it would be an interesting trial. IF it fails due to weeds, simply be prepared to nuke the entire plot and go to a fall annual plot as plan B so the deer have something to eat.

Please, please, please document and share your finding with us....with pictures!!!!

 

[JFK52]

When I first started growing corn for deer 27 years ago I used regular non GMO corn. First the field was disked and then rocks picked up on it. Then a regular 4 row planter put in the corn. The corn was actually cultivated to keep the weed growth down. The deer ate that corn then just as they eat my RR corn today.
With no till planting and spraying of 41% gly to control the weeds, there is a lot less disruption of the soil itself. This practice helps keep the organic material and moisture in my soil. I think that is a very important consideration as my land is in the "Central Sands" area of Wisconsin. It has minimum top soil and lots and lots of rocks.
With that said, please let us know how your experiment turns out.