Conspiracy theorys, where do you stand?

[Foggy47]

If the government "nationalizes" the tooling or the process does it take away the incentive of the manufacturers to innovate and try to make things better, cheaper, more reliable.....etc.? And if they do, do they have to turn the intellectual property over to the government?

You got it. It's hard to put this into a few paragraphs on a website.....but you get the gist of what I am saying here. There are many books written on this out there. I likely should read one. I assume many economists have spent decades figuring out their system. It works......for them. It's socialism and Communism.....and desperation. Not the way I want to live. Still...they are smart folks.

I can remember some asian companies having booths at the SHOT show that I attended each year. Their sole purpose was for American companies to show them their products and get a price quote on the asian source to make the goods. So.....your into scope rings......just provide a sample and they would get you a price in a few weeks. The government would then decide how much they were willing to invest int the techoology to make the item.....and generally they would be far less than you could do it here in 'Merica.

I hated seeing this. One f the big ones was called "Leapers". They made and still make lots of gun accessories and cleaning supplies. Heard of them? Google is your friend.

EDIT:

Leapers Leapers, Inc. - Hunting/Shooting, Sporting Goods and Security Gear

Leapers was established in 1992. In the first 15 years, we focused on horizontal integration to bring multiple product lines into one umbrella for a one-stop firearm accessory shopping experience. In the second 15 years, we strove to achieve vertical integration, ensuring that our products, from...

www.leapers.com

 

[Westwind]

It's complicated....and not sure any of us fully understand they way the Chinese prime the pump for their economy.......but basically, Industry comes up with an idea or product (often times a copy of an American design) .....and somebody there in China.....decides the government should make tooling or a process to make this idea happen. The government funds the big tooling or project expenses to make the primary "widget" or metal shape or "function" and allows many business operators to attain these parts. (not sure how....but likely through some bidding process?). Anyway....the part is now widely available and numerous suppliers can provide the item to their customers.....whom are normally American importers.....like WalMart or Cabelas, etc.

Meanwhile factories here in the USA cannot compete with the cost of tooling the product or the low labor rates of the asian source. We go out of biz (or invest in their economy) and they flourish. Stoopid.

It IS complicated. And I wish more people understood how “not simple” this is. Theft of our intellectual property is a bigger problem than we realize. From manufacturing to seed corn to tech. Thats what they are best at- stealing our ideas. We have something their engineers don’t have- imagination and creative problem solving.

 

[Foggy47]

You got it. It's hard to put this into a few paragraphs on a website.....but you get the gist of what I am saying here. There are many books written on this out there. I likely should read one. I assume many economists have spent decades figuring out their system. It works......for them. It's socialism and Communism.....and desperation. Not the way I want to live. Still...they are smart folks.

I can remember some asian companies having booths at the SHOT show that I attended each year. Their sole purpose was for American companies to show them their products and get a price quote on the asian source to make the goods. So.....your into scope rings......just provide a sample and they would get you a price in a few weeks. The government would then decide how much they were willing to invest int the techoology to make the item.....and generally they would be far less than you could do it here in 'Merica.

I hated seeing this. One f the big ones was called "Leapers". They made and still make lots of gun accessories and cleaning supplies. Heard of them? Google is your friend. They are what is widely known as a "knock off" company.

I can well remember the buyer from Wal Mart telling me that he was willing to pay me $XX for my Steady Stix product and not a penny more. He told me that if I did not sell him at that price, he could have it made in Tiawan for that amount (or less) and he saw my products hanging on the wall at some suppliers he used at his last trip overseas.

I told him fine.....if he was willing to do that.....I'm glad it is him. Because, I have a patent, and his company has plenty of money.....and I would then sue you for what I could get. He said why would I do that? I told him that he would ruin the business Had built with my dealer base as he would undercut their prices and he would switch switch from me to a still cheaper source at the drop of a hat. Fortunately, I had more biz than he could offer me at that point in time......and he provided NOTHING that I needed and in my opinion he was poison for me. I am so glad I took that position today. I saw many, many companies go bankrupt from doing biz with the Mart / Mart. Sad. My 2 cents.

EDIT:

Leapers Leapers, Inc. - Hunting/Shooting, Sporting Goods and Security Gear

Leapers was established in 1992. In the first 15 years, we focused on horizontal integration to bring multiple product lines into one umbrella for a one-stop firearm accessory shopping experience. In the second 15 years, we strove to achieve vertical integration, ensuring that our products, from...

www.leapers.com

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

I remember reading in the WSJ back in 2005 how a Korean firm was making knock off of the famed Nesco roaster. The owner of the company was at a trade show trying t do business when an acquaintance told him to take a walk to booth #xxx. At that booth was a Korean company selling the knock off. They had copied it so well that they even had the wear marks in the roaster pan that were there from the worn dies at the American plant.

The owner determines that he can't compete with the price of the Korean product so he jumps in bed with them to manufacture the roasters and he'll market them. Fast forward a few years and now there's a Chinese company selling the knock offs. Owner can't compete with them either, so now they're made in China.

I also read that when American companies first turned to China for manufacturing they would turn over all the prints and assembly information for their products, even if the Chinese were making only one component. Once they had all the intellectual property they would just start making the product and selling it cheaper than it could be made here.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

And these stories are why tariffs are a great idea

 

[Foggy47]

I remember reading in the WSJ back in 2005 how a Korean firm was making knock off of the famed Nesco roaster. The owner of the company was at a trade show trying t do business when an acquaintance told him to take a walk to booth #xxx. At that booth was a Korean company selling the knock off. They had copied it so well that they even had the wear marks in the roaster pan that were there from the worn dies at the American plant.

The owner determines that he can't compete with the price of the Korean product so he jumps in bed with them to manufacture the roasters and he'll market them. Fast forward a few years and now there's a Chinese company selling the knock offs. Owner can't compete with them either, so now they're made in China.

I also read that when American companies first turned to China for manufacturing they would turn over all the prints and assembly information for their products, even if the Chinese were making only one component. Once they had all the intellectual property they would just start making the product and selling it cheaper than it could be made here.

I cannot tell you how many of my products were knocked off by the "copy cat" guys here in the USA....they would simply take your designs to their foreign manufaturers get a price and get into biz with a new label. At one point.....I was getting into a dispute at nearly every show I'd attend. I made many companies take their products off their display floor....as they were infringing my patents. Some well known names too,

It was not always this way....but in the 90's and especially in the 2000's their were many oportunist importers that would try to knock off your product at lower prices and almost all of them were by foreigner sources.....but with a USA "entrupeuer" (opportunist) that was willing to steal your ideas.....if you let them.

I had over 25 patents on some kinda unique stuff.....and could feel the pressure from many areas. I could not afford to defend all this "intellectual property" at this point in time.....so I had to pick and choose what was worth my time and money.

A good example of this....was that I made some of the first (and finest) bore guides for cleaning rifles. I really had a good, but small knish at that point in time.......and I had a fairly good patent on this....but should have spent more to patent some of the improvements to this product which I made over time. Meanwhile I was fighting a big battle on my shooting stix as others were copying my bore guides. Had to make a decision what to fight for. Right / wrong or otherwise. It's hard to fight a battle on all fronts.

Today.....those bore guides are offered by many....as if you do not defend your patent....you will lose the patent to others as it becomes common practice. Sad....but true.

I could simply not afford.....or find the time to do battle with so many frauds and imposters. It became a huge waste of time and energy....and if your not careful you will flame out. (ask me how I know about flaming out....not even easy to admit today).

I survived.....and should not complain.....but this world can be ruthless. Just saying.

 

[Westwind]

Foggy, thank you for sharing this info. It’s really interesting to me to hear the real world perspective as opposed to someone trying to tell someone else’s story.

Can you say if from your point of view would the tariffs have helped your situation? Or would that not have applied?

Off topic: How did you know when you had a good idea and where did that come from? Were you always solving or engineering a solution to an existing problem or did the idea ever come first and then you figured out what the idea/solution applied to?

 

[Foggy47]

Foggy, thank you for sharing this info. It’s really interesting to me to hear the real world perspective as opposed to someone trying to tell someone else’s story.

Can you say if from your point of view would the tariffs have helped your situation? Or would that not have applied?

Off topic: How did you know when you had a good idea and where did that come from? Were you always solving or engineering a solution to an existing problem or did the idea ever come first and then you figured out what the idea/solution applied to?

I've been solving mechanical issues since I was a kid.....and my dad was a farm machinery dealer and manufacturing company from back in the 40's. I had some of the best guys to learn form anyone could imagine. They welded ships in WWII and repaired tanks and more. I suppose I was lucky....but I grew up around some great mentors.....and yet by today's standards they were mere peon's. Sadly

anyway......I have always had an ability to design stuff....and it manifested itself in my old hot rod days.....and further with tractors, trucks and machines in general. Then I sold lots of custom metal parts to various industry.....and learned I was good at design.....and soon my customers asked me to solve various design problems with them.....and how I sold allot of metal. Much more than most any other 3 guys working for my company.....lol. Anyway.....I kinda learned I had a talent for design that many others did not possess. Not saying I am Elon Musk or anything....but I am pretty good at solving problems....when I want to.

Thus began my need to go into my own biz....as the company I worked for was not providing for what I wanted.....and required allot of travel.

Before I quit my job....at the Aluminum Extrusion company.....I had converted many of the boat dock and hoist company's from steel to aluminum members.....and many trailer companies from steel products to aluminum products due to lighter weight, corrosion issues, and better values. Fun. I really liked that job....and I wish they would have paid me better. I suppose I sold more metal than any three other people they had....yet they refused to pay me more....or wanted me to take a management position....whichh would have been the kiss of death to me.

Anyway.....It was time for me to go.....tho that was my best "calling" for me.......and I still liked that job better than any other to this day. They should have paid me more....and it took three salesmen to replace me....and they lost he best account they ever had after I left (whom I would have never left slip away....and I remain the best of friends today) . Shame on them.