Conspiracy theorys, where do you stand?

[Foggy47]

If the government "nationalizes" the tooling or the process does it take away the incentive of the manufacturers to innovate and try to make things better, cheaper, more reliable.....etc.? And if they do, do they have to turn the intellectual property over to the government?

You got it. It's hard to put this into a few paragraphs on a website.....but you get the gist of what I am saying here. There are many books written on this out there. I likely should read one. I assume many economists have spent decades figuring out their system. It works......for them. It's socialism and Communism.....and desperation. Not the way I want to live. Still...they are smart folks.

I can remember some asian companies having booths at the SHOT show that I attended each year. Their sole purpose was for American companies to show them their products and get a price quote on the asian source to make the goods. So.....your into scope rings......just provide a sample and they would get you a price in a few weeks. The government would then decide how much they were willing to invest int the techoology to make the item.....and generally they would be far less than you could do it here in 'Merica.

I hated seeing this. One f the big ones was called "Leapers". They made and still make lots of gun accessories and cleaning supplies. Heard of them? Google is your friend.

EDIT:

Leapers Leapers, Inc. - Hunting/Shooting, Sporting Goods and Security Gear

Leapers was established in 1992. In the first 15 years, we focused on horizontal integration to bring multiple product lines into one umbrella for a one-stop firearm accessory shopping experience. In the second 15 years, we strove to achieve vertical integration, ensuring that our products, from...

www.leapers.com

 

[Westwind]

It's complicated....and not sure any of us fully understand they way the Chinese prime the pump for their economy.......but basically, Industry comes up with an idea or product (often times a copy of an American design) .....and somebody there in China.....decides the government should make tooling or a process to make this idea happen. The government funds the big tooling or project expenses to make the primary "widget" or metal shape or "function" and allows many business operators to attain these parts. (not sure how....but likely through some bidding process?). Anyway....the part is now widely available and numerous suppliers can provide the item to their customers.....whom are normally American importers.....like WalMart or Cabelas, etc.

Meanwhile factories here in the USA cannot compete with the cost of tooling the product or the low labor rates of the asian source. We go out of biz (or invest in their economy) and they flourish. Stoopid.

It IS complicated. And I wish more people understood how “not simple” this is. Theft of our intellectual property is a bigger problem than we realize. From manufacturing to seed corn to tech. Thats what they are best at- stealing our ideas. We have something their engineers don’t have- imagination and creative problem solving.

 

[Foggy47]

You got it. It's hard to put this into a few paragraphs on a website.....but you get the gist of what I am saying here. There are many books written on this out there. I likely should read one. I assume many economists have spent decades figuring out their system. It works......for them. It's socialism and Communism.....and desperation. Not the way I want to live. Still...they are smart folks.

I can remember some asian companies having booths at the SHOT show that I attended each year. Their sole purpose was for American companies to show them their products and get a price quote on the asian source to make the goods. So.....your into scope rings......just provide a sample and they would get you a price in a few weeks. The government would then decide how much they were willing to invest int the techoology to make the item.....and generally they would be far less than you could do it here in 'Merica.

I hated seeing this. One f the big ones was called "Leapers". They made and still make lots of gun accessories and cleaning supplies. Heard of them? Google is your friend. They are what is widely known as a "knock off" company.

I can well remember the buyer from Wal Mart telling me that he was willing to pay me $XX for my Steady Stix product and not a penny more. He told me that if I did not sell him at that price, he could have it made in Tiawan for that amount (or less) and he saw my products hanging on the wall at some suppliers he used at his last trip overseas.

I told him fine.....if he was willing to do that.....I'm glad it is him. Because, I have a patent, and his company has plenty of money.....and I would then sue you for what I could get. He said why would I do that? I told him that he would ruin the business Had built with my dealer base as he would undercut their prices and he would switch switch from me to a still cheaper source at the drop of a hat. Fortunately, I had more biz than he could offer me at that point in time......and he provided NOTHING that I needed and in my opinion he was poison for me. I am so glad I took that position today. I saw many, many companies go bankrupt from doing biz with the Mart / Mart. Sad. My 2 cents.

EDIT:

Leapers Leapers, Inc. - Hunting/Shooting, Sporting Goods and Security Gear

Leapers was established in 1992. In the first 15 years, we focused on horizontal integration to bring multiple product lines into one umbrella for a one-stop firearm accessory shopping experience. In the second 15 years, we strove to achieve vertical integration, ensuring that our products, from...

www.leapers.com

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

I remember reading in the WSJ back in 2005 how a Korean firm was making knock off of the famed Nesco roaster. The owner of the company was at a trade show trying t do business when an acquaintance told him to take a walk to booth #xxx. At that booth was a Korean company selling the knock off. They had copied it so well that they even had the wear marks in the roaster pan that were there from the worn dies at the American plant.

The owner determines that he can't compete with the price of the Korean product so he jumps in bed with them to manufacture the roasters and he'll market them. Fast forward a few years and now there's a Chinese company selling the knock offs. Owner can't compete with them either, so now they're made in China.

I also read that when American companies first turned to China for manufacturing they would turn over all the prints and assembly information for their products, even if the Chinese were making only one component. Once they had all the intellectual property they would just start making the product and selling it cheaper than it could be made here.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

And these stories are why tariffs are a great idea

 

[Foggy47]

I remember reading in the WSJ back in 2005 how a Korean firm was making knock off of the famed Nesco roaster. The owner of the company was at a trade show trying t do business when an acquaintance told him to take a walk to booth #xxx. At that booth was a Korean company selling the knock off. They had copied it so well that they even had the wear marks in the roaster pan that were there from the worn dies at the American plant.

The owner determines that he can't compete with the price of the Korean product so he jumps in bed with them to manufacture the roasters and he'll market them. Fast forward a few years and now there's a Chinese company selling the knock offs. Owner can't compete with them either, so now they're made in China.

I also read that when American companies first turned to China for manufacturing they would turn over all the prints and assembly information for their products, even if the Chinese were making only one component. Once they had all the intellectual property they would just start making the product and selling it cheaper than it could be made here.

I cannot tell you how many of my products were knocked off by the "copy cat" guys here in the USA....they would simply take your designs to their foreign manufaturers get a price and get into biz with a new label. At one point.....I was getting into a dispute at nearly every show I'd attend. I made many companies take their products off their display floor....as they were infringing my patents. Some well known names too,

It was not always this way....but in the 90's and especially in the 2000's their were many oportunist importers that would try to knock off your product at lower prices and almost all of them were by foreigner sources.....but with a USA "entrupeuer" (opportunist) that was willing to steal your ideas.....if you let them.

I had over 25 patents on some kinda unique stuff.....and could feel the pressure from many areas. I could not afford to defend all this "intellectual property" at this point in time.....so I had to pick and choose what was worth my time and money.

A good example of this....was that I made some of the first (and finest) bore guides for cleaning rifles. I really had a good, but small knish at that point in time.......and I had a fairly good patent on this....but should have spent more to patent some of the improvements to this product which I made over time. Meanwhile I was fighting a big battle on my shooting stix as others were copying my bore guides. Had to make a decision what to fight for. Right / wrong or otherwise. It's hard to fight a battle on all fronts.

Today.....those bore guides are offered by many....as if you do not defend your patent....you will lose the patent to others as it becomes common practice. Sad....but true.

I could simply not afford.....or find the time to do battle with so many frauds and imposters. It became a huge waste of time and energy....and if your not careful you will flame out. (ask me how I know about flaming out....not even easy to admit today).

I survived.....and should not complain.....but this world can be ruthless. Just saying.

 

[Westwind]

Foggy, thank you for sharing this info. It’s really interesting to me to hear the real world perspective as opposed to someone trying to tell someone else’s story.

Can you say if from your point of view would the tariffs have helped your situation? Or would that not have applied?

Off topic: How did you know when you had a good idea and where did that come from? Were you always solving or engineering a solution to an existing problem or did the idea ever come first and then you figured out what the idea/solution applied to?

 

[Foggy47]

Foggy, thank you for sharing this info. It’s really interesting to me to hear the real world perspective as opposed to someone trying to tell someone else’s story.

Can you say if from your point of view would the tariffs have helped your situation? Or would that not have applied?

Off topic: How did you know when you had a good idea and where did that come from? Were you always solving or engineering a solution to an existing problem or did the idea ever come first and then you figured out what the idea/solution applied to?

I've been solving mechanical issues since I was a kid.....and my dad was a farm machinery dealer and manufacturing company from back in the 40's. I had some of the best guys to learn form anyone could imagine. They welded ships in WWII and repaired tanks and more. I suppose I was lucky....but I grew up around some great mentors.

 

[Mortenson]

Breaking: Wisconsin StopBogusBallots Team Challenges Over 150,000 Addresses including 4,900 Addresses in Milwaukee | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

Guest post by Jay Valentine at StopBogusBallots In Milwaukee, a robust street-fighting group of activists, using data our StopBogusBallots.com team provided, challenged 4,900 addresses in the City of Milwaukee today.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[Mortenson]

Kentucky Touch Screen Repeatedly Won't Allow Voter To Select Trump - Election Officials Deny Malfunction -- Then 4 Hours Later Admit Issue With Ballot Marking Device [VIDEO] | The Gateway Pundit | by Patty McMurray

A voter in Kentucky sent out a warning on social media this afternoon after a touchscreen voting machine would not let him select Donald J.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[Foggy47]

It IS complicated. And I wish more people understood how “not simple” this is. Theft of our intellectual property is a bigger problem than we realize. From manufacturing to seed corn to tech. Thats what they are best at- stealing our ideas. We have something their engineers don’t have- imagination and creative problem solving.

The big thing that the USA has, is that many people here can afford to buy a product. When you go into much of the world there is simply no money to buy a needed product....and in many cases folks dont even have anything they can afford and no hobbies, etc......and no money to spend. Here in the USA we consume all kinds of things and are a nation of lots of excess. So, if you can develop a better mousetrap....there are folks that will buy it. Not much for sport hunting (for example) in most of the world.....thus no market for such toys.

 

[Westwind]

I've been solving mechanical issues since I was a kid.....and my dad was a farm machinery dealer and manufacturing company from back in the 40's. I had some of the best guys to learn form anyone could imagine. They welded ships in WWII and repaired tanks and more. I suppose I was lucky....but I grew up around some great mentors.

I love this. My dad had a very close childhood friend who built some of the very first welded aluminum boats on the market. This was the 70’s and 80’s. He was the product of his dad and uncles that built wood boats but he liked to weld. He was a wonderful guy and I think a genius in the shop. I wish I had been older and could have learned how to build things from him.

 

[bwoods11]

Breaking: Wisconsin StopBogusBallots Team Challenges Over 150,000 Addresses including 4,900 Addresses in Milwaukee | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

Guest post by Jay Valentine at StopBogusBallots In Milwaukee, a robust street-fighting group of activists, using data our StopBogusBallots.com team provided, challenged 4,900 addresses in the City of Milwaukee today.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

This is how they do it . Had a good conversation with an election worker in California. Her son played football with my son and we had dinner after the game .

She said they sent letters out to the voters in a small precinct in California and 5000 came back as undeliverable. She said 1 in 4 were made up addresses. Nobody would do anything about it . They moved to Tennessee, got sick of the politics in California!

 

[Bill]

And these stories are why tariffs are a great idea

Here's another. In the early 2000's my family ran a company that manufactured electronic connectors and cable assemblies. A large company that was building automation equipment for the food processing industry approached us to solve a problem they were having with a data cable. Without too much useless detail the cable was in the system that ran the product line. A tech would plug it into his laptop to make adjustments if something was out of tolerance. The cable was failing because of electrical interference. The customers design was failing because the toroid (used to shield a data cable from interference) was wrong and the tin case it was housed in was being crushed by the pressure caused by overmolding it and rendering the toroid useless. Overmolding is when a connector is cased in rubber or a nylon product. Think about the small connector on the end of an extension cord. That plug is overmolded and sees a lot of pressure when the rubber is being injected into the mold around it. Anyway we were promised orders for hundreds of thousands of cables if we could solve the problem.

We solved it by winding the toroid differently and replacing the tin box that housed it with a zinc die cast box that could withstand the molding pressure. We required an order large enough to cover our investment into the project. We received that order and did in fact ship it. After that no repeat orders worth a damn. They sent our cable to the company in China that screwed it up the first time. They reverse engineered it and got their product up to snuff at half the price. I say F@(k China and politicians that don't understand how business works.

 

[jsasker007]

We make products for another company and they sell grain handling equipment. They sell globally and we noticed at least 35 years ago that China would buy 1 part/product and that was it. They would buy it and reverse engineer it and copy the product from then on. Basically stealing intellectual property. BULLSHIT that there really wasn't much that could be done about it. We do all the R&D AND THEN WHEN THE PRODUCT WORKS THEY STEAL THE TECHNOLOGY.

 

[Westwind]

They won’t be able to claim late night votes for Harris this year because Republicans are leading the early vote count—unless they pull the ballot box thing again ? But if its 81-19 for Harris who will believe that ??

Plus Biden wasn’t the Dodgers, he barely campaigned. Voting is different than runs in baseball. He wasn’t popular at all, but somehow got more votes than Obama ?

He lost more counties that any President, but won ? They stuffed ballot boxes in the key areas to overcome the deficit. You can watch videos on the voting algorithms and it shows the impossible odds of leading by 4-5 the whole election and then going to a consistent 80/20 for Biden in the key swing states.

No offense but the argument I was responding to was “when I went to bed, my guy Trump was winning but when I woke up Biden was winning. How can that be?”

I remember being on a school bus sitting next to a kid that said “Carter went to bed thinking he still had a chance but in the morning Reagan had won”.

I’m certainly not going to re-argue 3 billion pages of facebook posts, tweets and forum posts. But since Trump didn’t win a single courtroom case on election fraud, including in front of judges he appointed, I’m going to have to go with that. I’m satisfied. It’s all I can do. We don’t fight back, we fight forward is the slogan that comes to mind. Yet Trump is doing exactly what he did last time. Starts to claim fraud before Election Day, will claim to have won on election night and then make claims of fraud whether it’s true or not.

If he is a dominant candidate, if he is winning right now, if it’s overwhelming, he is in the driver’s seat. He doesn’t need to make these claims. I think he and his staff think he is losing.

We had a win in 2016. The dems insisted on running a terrible candidate, she was completely beatable. 2020 was a mess. Yet Biden was a candidate that could be beat but we ran a leftover. 2024, Trump had to take over the RNC to keep himself in the driver’s seat and we fell for it. We are running against a candidate that shouldn’t be a presidential candidate and I don’t think Trump can beat her. Nikki Haley would mop the fricking floor with her. Nikki Haley would be touring the country talking about who the next Secretary of State is going to be. Desantis would probably be winning too.

Instead, we got this.

Are we going to just keep doing this? Are we going to start running candidates who can win? Who is up next? Or are we going to keep running dipshits like Vance? Elon? Y’know, Elon “we gotta break it to fix it?”

Don’t fight back, fight forward. Flush this whole bunch and start over. Because by Wednesday at lunch I fear even Fox News is going to call it for Harris and the claims of victory stolen will start again. I’m so over it.

 

[Westwind]

And yes, I know I’m about to be flamed. Sorry folks, I gotta say what I really think.

 

[H20fwler]

Or are we going to keep running dipshits like Vance?

Wait........what?

 

[Foggy47]

Here's another. In the early 2000's my family ran a company that manufactured electronic connectors and cable assemblies. A large company that was building automation equipment for the food processing industry approached us to solve a problem they were having with a data cable. Without too much useless detail the cable was in the system that ran the product line. A tech would plug it into his laptop to make adjustments if something was out of tolerance. The cable was failing because of electrical interference. The customers design was failing because the toroid (used to shield a data cable from interference) was wrong and the tin case it was housed in was being crushed by the pressure caused by overmolding it and rendering the toroid useless. Overmolding is when a connector is cased in rubber or a nylon product. Think about the small connector on the end of an extension cord. That plug is overmolded and sees a lot of pressure when the rubber is being injected into the mold around it. Anyway we were promised orders for hundreds of thousands of cables if we could solve the problem.

We solved it by winding the toroid differently and replacing the tin box that housed it with a zinc die cast box that could withstand the molding pressure. We required an order large enough to cover our investment into the project. We received that order and did in fact ship it. After that no repeat orders worth a damn. They sent our cable to the company in China that screwed it up the first time. They reverse engineered it and got their product up to snuff at half the price. I say F@(k China and politicians that don't understand how business works.

^This has happened to a whole lot of USA based companies. Sad. I can remember when the USA INVITED lots of Japanese businessmen into the country.......and we gave them tours of how we did things in our factories and offices all over the USA. This was in the 60's and early 70's. I was working for National Car Rental corporate office in Minneapolis at the time....and we showed them all about how the car rental biz worked. Open arms by all of us. Those guys took much of what they learned and brought it back to us in Spades. All of a sudden the streets were full of Toyota's, Datsun pickups and Honda motor scooters. Remember?

The Jap's at least had good products to offer and engineered their own products....and were not dead ringer knock-offs of USA products (for the most part). The Chinese on the other hand........not so much. The thing is....today's USA importers (lots of Americans involved) are some of the worst at "off-shoring" products aimed at beating their USA counterparts. Sad.

 

[jsasker007]

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