Conifers & Ground Cover Fabric?

[Tree Spud]

I have consistently had problems with weeds & grasses over taking seedlings I have planted. Able to deal with that for trees with tubes.

The issues I have not found a good solution for is conifers. I always prep the ground by spraying Glysophate to kill all vegetation. The problem is that I cannot always follow-up later on in the summer with additional spraying.

Does anyone have experience with growing confers through landscape fabric or lumite type ground covers?

If so, what are the issues & survival rate?

 

[West Branch]

I think most conifers have a low to none anaerobic tolerance. Which has something to do with air flow getting to their roots. So you have to make sure it is a fabric that can "breathe". So some sort of woven fabric should work.

Check out the ninebark here. The tolerance is none so woven fabric is recommended.
http://www.bigrocktrees.com/Ninebark_p_57.html

Weeping willow has a high tolerance so you can use black plastic:
http://www.bigrocktrees.com/Wisconsin-Weeping-Willow_p_63.html

I have never used any, but I think it was brushpile that experimented a lot with these different ground coverings for all types of trees. And probably John W as well.

 

[Tree Spud]

what about something like oust?

As I stated, I cannot always follow-up with additional spraying into the summer.

 

[wiscwhip]

As I stated, I cannot always follow-up with additional spraying into the summer.

Oust XP is residual. Google it, the DuPont pdf has specific info just for conifers.

 

[Tree Spud]

What about a pre-emergent herbicide that I could apply to the ground this spring?

I do not have a chemical license so it would need to over the counter.

 

[John-W-WI]

Fabric will do the trick. It's kind of expensive, and a lot of work. But it will retain moisture and keep the weeds down.

November is right, you'll still get a few weeds. Mostly cosmetic, there won't be enough to slow the trees down.

If you are planting them individually, a 6' square with a hole in the middle will do.

If you are planting rows or blocks, I would consider running a 3' wide piece of fabric down both sides of the trees. Overlap it in the middle.

Woven fabric will breath enough for the evergreens. NEVER use plastic. They will die in the 1st season.

Hope that helps a little.

-John

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I wouldn't worry about fabric or continuous spraying for conifers. Spray the area prior to planting if you can and plant the trees and call it good. We've had 90%+ survival by doing just that and often times we don't spray prior to planting. This is on sandy loam soil in Rusk County WI. The weeds will take over initially, but in my experience I think it helped since they shaded the conifers. The conifers grow an inch or two the first few years, but once they're 4, you'll get 1-2 feet of growth per year. Sometimes you'll have some runt trees that you counted off as dead years ago just pop up and take off after 5 or 6 years.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

True. ^^^^^ Good advice. Don't give up on the spruce if the top gets eaten by deer. Most times they will sprout new growth but lag behind the ones that didn't get nipped. Slow growth the first 3 yrs. or so, then boom. Speed up the process by sprinkling some 10-10-10 or 15-15-15 around the trees in year 2 ( lightly ) and spread a little heavier the next 5 yrs. That program has worked well for me.

 

[Buckly]

What about a pre-emergent herbicide that I could apply to the ground this spring?

I do not have a chemical license so it would need to over the counter.

Oust xp, prowl H2O and Simazine . If you look up old Lickcreek threads on tree plantings he has all the info you need on how to keep weeds out of conifers.

 

[sandbur]

I wouldn't worry about fabric or continuous spraying for conifers. Spray the area prior to planting if you can and plant the trees and call it good. We've had 90%+ survival by doing just that and often times we don't spray prior to planting. This is on sandy loam soil in Rusk County WI. The weeds will take over initially, but in my experience I think it helped since they shaded the conifers. The conifers grow an inch or two the first few years, but once they're 4, you'll get 1-2 feet of growth per year. Sometimes you'll have some runt trees that you counted off as dead years ago just pop up and take off after 5 or 6 years.

I like a few weeds around them to protect them from hot summer suns and from winter burn.

The best answer for you might depend on what types of grasses are present in the specific area. Brome or timothy is one thing as compared to reed canary in my part of the country.
Most of my spruce and jack pine /norway pine were planted with a scalper and it worked great.

 

[NWWI]

I like a few weeds around them to protect them from hot summer suns and from winter burn.

The best answer for you might depend on what types of grasses are present in the specific area. Brome or timothy is one thing as compared to reed canary in my part of the country.
Most of my spruce and jack pine /norway pine were planted with a scalper and it worked great.

I don't mind leaving a little grass to hold in a little moisture as well. I used to knock down anything that was taller than the spruce with a hand trimmer. If you can do that for a couple years and they get above the grasses they will take off.

 

[John-W-WI]

My experience is mostly with Reed Canary (should have mentioned that)..... RCG laughs at herbicides. Oust lasts about 1/3 of a season. It's still 5' tall by fall.

Other weeds, not so much.

-John

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I like a few weeds around them to protect them from hot summer suns and from winter burn.

The best answer for you might depend on what types of grasses are present in the specific area. Brome or timothy is one thing as compared to reed canary in my part of the country.
Most of my spruce and jack pine /norway pine were planted with a scalper and it worked great.

Good point - my spruce and pine planting experiences did not involve reed canary grass. I don't know what kind of weeds and grasses I was dealing with but they only got a foot or two tall and they definitely weren't RCG.

I actually tried to control the weeds around a strip of new spruce and pines one year by mowing and weeding by hand and the survival rate was lower than I saw in the weedy sections. I also assumed it was because the dead or dying weeds that got toasted in the dry summer months helped shade the seedlings, but that's only a guess. Since that experiment I've just planted the trees and hoped for the best and it has worked really well with both spruce and pines.

 

[scott44]

Good point - my spruce and pine planting experiences did not involve reed canary grass. I don't know what kind of weeds and grasses I was dealing with but they only got a foot or two tall and they definitely weren't RCG.

I actually tried to control the weeds around a strip of new spruce and pines one year by mowing and weeding by hand and the survival rate was lower than I saw in the weedy sections. I also assumed it was because the dead or dying weeds that got toasted in the dry summer months helped shade the seedlings, but that's only a guess. Since that experiment I've just planted the trees and hoped for the best and it has worked really well with both spruce and pines.

I usually only spray the first year and at planting time and then they are on their own, my results are like what others have said here the first couple years they might be hard to find but then they start to take off and the weeds/grass are no problem.

 

[SD51555]

I've had mixed luck with fabric and conifers. It worked well for white pines. It burnt the austrian pines. I've had my best luck spraying roundup at the right time in May. I had mixed up a hand sprayer with roundup at 4oz/gallon and sprayed around my spruces. That knocked down the grass for 2 years, and beyond that, the grass has started to creep back in, but it's not even close to the root zone again. It doesn't last that long with canary grass, but the short thinner bladed grass on my clay hills went down like a sack of potatoes after getting sprayed.

 

[Tree Spud]

I must have bionic weeds & grasses. I will spray twice in the spring as everything is emerging. Then plant typically Norway spruce 3.0 seeding or 2.0 transplants.

This winter I am having a hard time finding half of them as the grass and weeds came up again and buried them.

 

[SD51555]

It'd probably help if I understood exactly what grass I had that died back and stayed back as long as it did. Even in my reed/canary I got a good year of control, but that crept back in as year 2 began. But that was often enough to get whatever tree I was spraying the surge forward it needed.

I've been pondering the idea of using a pvc pipe or stove pipe to cover new seedlings and spray right up to them in year 1 and 2.

 

[Tree Spud]

It'd probably help if I understood exactly what grass I had that died back and stayed back as long as it did. Even in my reed/canary I got a good year of control, but that crept back in as year 2 began. But that was often enough to get whatever tree I was spraying the surge forward it needed.

I've been pondering the idea of using a pvc pipe or stove pipe to cover new seedlings and spray right up to them in year 1 and 2.

If you could provide a good grass ID source or site, that would be helpful ... I haven't been able to locate one myself.

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