Brassicas and clover planted together

[omicron1792]

Will clover come back after sprayed with a gly/2,4-D combo? I thought it killed the clover dead?
I have heard of guys trying to "set back" clover with gly but I think using 2 4-D is the kiss of death for clovers?

It will.

I think Foggy wants annual clover production and will replant some every year. He, like others, is tired of trying to get brassicas and such to grow in thick perennial clover.

 

[Wild Thing]

Will clover come back after sprayed with a gly/2,4-D combo? I thought it killed the clover dead?
I have heard of guys trying to "set back" clover with gly but I think using 2 4-D is the kiss of death for clovers?

Yes - 2-4,D will nuke the clovers. 2-4,D does have a residual effect though after application so you may have to wait a while before planting, depending upon what you are planting and the rate at which you apply the 2-4,D. Check the label.

 

[Foggy47]

^, ^^, Yep and yep. We have a thread......"My clover outcompetes my attempts to grow brassica".....or something to that effect. I've had troubles trying to mow or scalp or use a "light" dose of glyphosate to "set back" my clover long enough to get the brassica well established. For me....scalping the clover only makes it come back with a vengeance! Grin.

Thus.....terminating (killing) the clover is the best choice for many of us in this same boat. When we terminate the clover, also collect the many fertilizer benefits at termination. I feel certain I can get the equilent of 100 lbs of nitrogen when terminating the clover and rye I have. Also in spring the clover not only will feed my starving deer......but will crowd out weeds due to its competitive nature. Same goes for rye....it too will scavage nitrogen and supply fertilizer and mulch benefits upon termination. It's less cost to grow your own fertilizer and mulch than to buy them....plus you get weed control and food value to boot. What's not to like?

There seems to be little harm in going to a relatively strong glyphosate application.....but doing so with 24-d could be problematic. I'm going to stay with 1 pint / acre on the 24-d (mixed with the gly) for that reason......and plan to plant about a week or more after applying the chemicals.....just in case some residual effects would still be present. Meanwhile I still have other adjacent clover plots to feed deer. Win / win.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

OK Great! The Welter brassica mix sounds like a great combo for your brassicas and I am sure they will do well. Now...not knowing anything about your deer density or environment I can only tell you how planting just that mix would work out here on my dirt. My deer will have devoured every last morsel of that mix by probably December at the latest - sometimes even sooner, and all I would have left until next planting season would be bare dirt.

If you look at my "Recipe" on the post at the top of this page you can see that I plant a very similar brassica mix as what you will be planting. The difference is that I don't want to be left with bare dirt in the spring. I want to keep my soil covered, I want a diversity of living roots in my soil for as many days per year as possible, I want to continue feeding my deer - especially following snow melt when forage is pretty lean in the north woods, and I want to have at least somewhat of a cover crop to plant into the following summer. I accomplish all of this by planting what you see in my mix above, and by following that July planting by broadcasting cereal rye into the brassica mix 4-5 weeks later after the brassicas have become well-established.

Plant a few pounds/acre of whatever clovers you prefer at the same time you plant your brassica mix - you can mix it right in with the brassica seed and plant it at the same time - no sense in walking any further than you have to to plant. The brassicas won't even know the clovers are there as they will shoot up after the first rainfall and soon canopy over the tiny clovers, keeping them suppressed until spring. Same thing with the rye. If you broadcast rye into already established brassicas, the rye will have zero negative effects on your brassicas but it will be a tremendous boost for your deer in the spring and it will help build Organic Matter (most of which is built by roots under the surface), provide a carbon boost for your soil, suppress weed growth in your plot, keep your soil covered, provide fawning cover until you plant again....and probably lots of other benefits as well.

Believe me, you are not going to experience any "crowding" out of your brassicas by planting this way. There are many, many benefits to this method and few, if any negatives IMO.

THANKS WT!!! This gives me a confidence boost. Our camp has no AG-educated folks / actual farmers, and I wasn't sure about which crops play nice together. I've read stories of seed mixes where several varieties didn't fare so well with the other things they were planted with. Timing has also been a question for us, - when to overseed into what. Your post helps greatly for a plot timing schedule / seed mix.

I HAVE read that the root systems of various crops are where the bulk of OM comes from, and also help with soil compaction. GHR drills holes (and we've noticed that at camp with past plantings), but I recently read that grain rye puts down deep roots, too - but much finer. We'll be planting crazies shortly, in late July to around Labor Day. I'll pass this info to other camp members. Thanks again, WT!!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Thus.....terminating (killing) the clover is the best choice for many of us in this same boat. When we terminate the clover, also collect the many fertilizer benefits at termination. I feel certain I can get the equilent of 100 lbs of nitrogen when terminating the clover and rye I have. Also in spring the clover not only will feed my starving deer......but will crowd out weeds due to its competitive nature. Same goes for rye....it too will scavage nitrogen and supply fertilizer and mulch benefits upon termination. It's less cost to grow your own fertilizer and mulch than to buy them....plus you get weed control and food value to boot. What's not to like?

Thanks, Foggy for this info. The idea of growing our own fertilizer will be a hit at our camp. Saving money "R" us.

 

[omicron1792]

WT and Foggy are two gooders to listen to on here. If we could just get WT stop bragging about his drill….

 

[Bowsnbucks]

If we could just get WT stop bragging about his drill….

 

[Foggy47]

I spent the entire day today getting my drill configured for my needs and weighting and mixing my seeds to get ready to plant. Ran the drill a few hundred yards in my driveway and a bit in my clover plot. Man....in spite of a drought.....I got some FANTASTIC clover here. Gonna be a bit hard to terminate this stuff.....but it's gonna provide in spades. I had a devil of a time getting that drive chain to operate correctly on my 3P500. I reset the drive wheel to a lower hole to provide mostly shallow running - which is what I mostly need. Seems just a bit of change made the drive chain want to bind up and that chain is a sucker to adjust. Two hours and a bit of cussing later.....and I got 'er done.

Calibrated my mixes and all went pretty smooth after a bit of a learning curve. I'm measured, calibrated, mixed and ready to drill when the time is right. Hard to hold back.......feel like a kid in a candy store.

Check out this clover....it's now about 18" high and thick as a DQ Blizzard. Weeds have no room to grow in much of my plot areas......and we have been in a DROUGHT!!!

 

[omicron1792]

I spent the entire day today getting my drill configured for my needs and weighting and mixing my seeds to get ready to plant. Ran the drill a few hundred yards in my driveway and a bit in my clover plot. Man....in spite of a drought.....I got some FANTASTIC clover here. Gonna be a bit hard to terminate this stuff.....but it's gonna provide in spades. I had a devil of a time getting that drive chain to operate correctly on my 3P500. I reset the drive wheel to a lower hole to provide mostly shallow running - which is what I mostly need. Seems just a bit of change made the drive chain want to bind up and that chain is a sucker to adjust. Two hours and a bit of cussing later.....and I got 'er done.

Calibrated my mixes and all went pretty smooth after a bit of a learning curve. I'm measured, calibrated, mixed and ready to drill when the time is right. Hard to hold back.......feel like a kid in a candy store.

Check out this clover....it's now about 18" high and thick as a DQ Blizzard. Weeds have no room to grow in much of my plot areas......and we have been in a DROUGHT!!!View attachment 53605View attachment 53606
View attachment 53602View attachment 53603View attachment 53604

Looks so good Foggy!

 

[Wild Thing]

Looking good Foggy. Nice to know you have everything calibrated and ready to go. Will be getting my seed in order soon.

 

[omicron1792]

I spent the entire day today getting my drill configured for my needs and weighting and mixing my seeds to get ready to plant. Ran the drill a few hundred yards in my driveway and a bit in my clover plot. Man....in spite of a drought.....I got some FANTASTIC clover here. Gonna be a bit hard to terminate this stuff.....but it's gonna provide in spades. I had a devil of a time getting that drive chain to operate correctly on my 3P500. I reset the drive wheel to a lower hole to provide mostly shallow running - which is what I mostly need. Seems just a bit of change made the drive chain want to bind up and that chain is a sucker to adjust. Two hours and a bit of cussing later.....and I got 'er done.

Calibrated my mixes and all went pretty smooth after a bit of a learning curve. I'm measured, calibrated, mixed and ready to drill when the time is right. Hard to hold back.......feel like a kid in a candy store.

Check out this clover....it's now about 18" high and thick as a DQ Blizzard. Weeds have no room to grow in much of my plot areas......and we have been in a DROUGHT!!!View attachment 53605View attachment 53606
View attachment 53602View attachment 53603View attachment 53604

Honestly foggy I think your rye didn’t do as well is because your clover is so dang thick. Seriously.

 

[Foggy47]

Honestly foggy I think your rye didn’t do as well is because your clover is so dang thick. Seriously.

I think you could be right about that. The rye is really quite thick in some of my plots.....which I did not take a pic. I do think the clover out-competes the rye as you say. With all those seed heads....I'm tempted to mow the clover. But this drought being what it is.....would likely make for problems. I got allot of deer. and a few fawns....and they are feeding at all times of the day.....due to the thick red and white cover I got. The deer are looking really healthy now too. In a months time.....they look so much better.

I am really stoked at how well this plan has worked for me. Not sure why I waited so long to get a drill.......or put away the tillage tools. This is the real Schmidt.

 

[Foggy47]

Looking good Foggy. Nice to know you have everything calibrated and ready to go. Will be getting my seed in order soon.

I referred to your drill setting quite a bit today. Made a copy of what you had done. It was significantly different on my drill.....but I did have a starting point. I am using drive 1 on the gear box.....to slow things down. That must make a difference on the small seed box too.....but the manual says it does not. Dunno......but I found the right settings for my seeds and drill. Most of it took me about 3 tries (for each seed box) to get it right. I tried to turn that crank with my impact wrench.....lol. Takes more effort than that and the impact shook things a bit much IMO. 42 turns doesn't sound like much.....but when you do it about six times while standing in the sun......you get a pretty good workout.

I mix enough seeds to do two acres at a filling. And I mixed enough for 4 acres of brassica and clovers.

 

[Foggy47]

Thanks, Foggy for this info. The idea of growing our own fertilizer will be a hit at our camp. Saving money "R" us.

FWIW.....the clover pictured in my posts above were all a result of last years seed efforts. I have not put a seed in the ground this year. The last seed I planted was in late August when I planted Winter Rye and a few clovers. Seems I am forever putting down clover......and now I plan to switch to some lower cost clovers.....and perhaps seed it a bit lighter. Having said that.....it's the cheapest nitrogen I could buy.......and my deer love it.

Not sure of your USDA growing zone......but that can make a huge difference in clover seed choices and the associated expense. I have done well with Ladino clover varieties and medium red clover. Now I am trying some Crimson Clover in hopes that it will over-winter here in MN. I have my doubts.....but it is worth a shot at 1/2 price. Medium red has become a staple for me. Lasts long enough....and provides the nitrogen I need for my "cash crops" (brassicas).

Fun.

 

[Wild Thing]

The small box has only the lever setting in the back of the drill and it works independently from the large box settings. You don't need to worry about any other settings for the small box:

This lever in the center of the back of the drill is the only control I have on my drill for the small seed box. Yours may be different??


One thing you probably should look for from time to time is to make sure you don't have a blockage in any of your small box tubes. This has happened to me twice in the 7 years I have been running my drill. Not sure if spiders get in there and make nests or what but your seed will be blocked from traveling down the tube to ground level. Take a look at the tube openings and you will know for sure if one of them is blocked:

The tube on the right here is blocked and no seed is getting to the ground except what may be overflowing from the gear box...


Only 42 cranks on the handle Foggy? That must be a piece of cake! It takes 102 cranks on my drill to measure 1/10th acre. I have been known to ask Elaine to crank if for me and she usually obliges.



Isn't it fun mixing your own seed?











Drive 1 is the slowest drive for the large seed box. The only time I can recall using it was when I was trying to calibrate down to plant only 2#/acre of RR Sugar Beet seed and it worked perfectly:



This is the full acre of sugar beets I planted with only 2# of seed:

 

[Foggy47]

FWIW.....the clover pictured in my posts above were all a result of last years seed efforts. I have not put a seed in the ground this year. The last seed I planted was in late August when I planted Winter Rye and a few clovers. Seems I am forever putting down clover......and now I plan to switch to some lower cost clovers (but not entirely).....and perhaps seed it a bit lighter. Having said that.....it's the cheapest nitrogen I could buy.......and my deer love it.

Not sure of your USDA growing zone......but that can make a huge difference in clover seed choices and the associated expense. I have done well with Ladino clover varieties and medium red clover. Now I am trying some Crimson Clover in hopes that it will over-winter here in MN. I have my doubts.....but it is worth a shot at 1/2 price. Medium red has become a staple for me. Lasts long enough....and provides the nitrogen I need for my "cash crops" (brassicas).

Fun.

 

[Wild Thing]

FWIW.....the clover pictured in my posts above were all a result of last years seed efforts. I have not put a seed in the ground this year. The last seed I planted was in late August when I planted Winter Rye and a few clovers. Seems I am forever putting down clover......and now I plan to switch to some lower cost clovers.....and perhaps seed it a bit lighter. Having said that.....it's the cheapest nitrogen I could buy.......and my deer love it.

Not sure of your USDA growing zone......but that can make a huge difference in clover seed choices and the associated expense. I have done well with Ladino clover varieties and medium red clover. Now I am trying some Crimson Clover in hopes that it will over-winter here in MN. I have my doubts.....but it is worth a shot at 1/2 price. Medium red has become a staple for me. Lasts long enough....and provides the nitrogen I need for my "cash crops" (brassicas).

Fun.

I will be planting some Medium Red in with my brassica mix again this year. Last year I left it out because I didn't want to have any issues trying to terminate it this year. Medium Red always comes up great here on my dirt in Upper Michigan and I have always used it except for last year. Unfortunately, the Crimson and Balsana Fixation I planted in lieu of the MR did not come in well at all this spring so my clovers are much thinner than I would like. I will still include them in with the mix this year but I will also include Medium Red again going forward.

 

[Foggy47]

^ Thanks WT. I read that about the only setting being the seed cup setting too.....and used drive 1 to get a bit more ability to regulate 6 lbs of radish in the "big box". I used "your" data on my small box on my first calibration to put out 13 lbs of clover and brassica. I was WAY off with my setting similar to yours......and cut the rate to 1/4 of what you had. That got me real close. Kinda why I wondered about that gear box drive setting. But I am on the same page as you in this regard.

I do wish Great Plains would put a spinning handle grip on that crank.......would make it so much easier for this old man. Grin. When I calibrate I use all the openers and can readily see if any are plugged by the output in my plastic tub set up. I calibrate based on 100 feet of travel for the full width of the drill....and use the math from that distance. Seems to work well for me. I did post my worksheet elsewhere. I do not like turning that crank.....but 42 turns I can live with. As I gain some feel for calibration.....I'm sure my efforts required will be less.

 

[Wild Thing]

Whatever works well for you is how you should do it Foggy. Initially I went strictly by the instruction manual, but as you have found, sometimes there are better ways of getting to the same point. I now have my method pretty well tuned and it works for me so that is how I do it.

Yes, our drills are not the same so there are going to be some differences in settings I am sure.

Keep on doing what you are doing. You are getting to know your drill and you can figure out what works best for you.

BTW - I could probably tinker around some and come up with a setting for Drive 1 when planting my radish as well. I tried Drive 2 and it worked OK for 6#/acre but looking at the Seed Rate Handle setting of only #1 tells me I could probably dial it in better if I used Drive 1 and a higher Seed Rate Handle setting.

 

[Foggy47]

Whatever works well for you is how you should do it Foggy. Initially I went strictly by the instruction manual, but as you have found, sometimes there are better ways of getting to the same point. I now have my method pretty well tuned and it works for me so that is how I do it.

Yes, our drills are not the same so there are going to be some differences in settings I am sure.

Keep on doing what you are doing. You are getting to know your drill and you can figure out what works best for you.

BTW - I could probably tinker around some and come up with a setting for Drive 1 when planting my radish as well. I tried Drive 2 and it worked OK for 6#/acre but looking at the Seed Rate Handle setting of only #1 tells me I could probably dial it in better if I used Drive 1 and a higher Seed Rate Handle setting.

Yep....drive 2 is about 2x the rate of drive 1 on my drill. That is why I decided it was more appropriate for my needs.....its a bit easier to "tune" at 1/2 the rate. Whatever works.