Brassicas and clover planted together

[Nightvision]

When you leave the Rye standing, doesn’t it keep the deer from feeding in the clover as heavily? I thought I saw where Grant Woods leaves his Rye standing for a while to protect his young beans.

 

[Wild Thing]

That's an impressive rotation Wild Thing. Sounds like you could split a plot in half. Each year you would only have to plant one half of and mow the other half. One side would be the planted brassicas with young clover and rye. The other half would be the established clover and volunteer rye after mowing.

Exactly. This way you pretty much get 2 years worth of forage for one planting and one mowing, except that you only get the brassicas for the first year and pretty much only the clovers and cereal grains the second year. This is good for crop rotation (minimizing disease issues) and it also fits perfectly into the realm of "Regenerative Agriculture". It feeds your wildlife and your soil at the same time.

 

[Wild Thing]

When you leave the Rye standing, doesn’t it keep the deer from feeding in the clover as heavily? I thought I saw where Grant Woods leaves his Rye standing for a while to protect his young beans.

Not really Nightvision. You can see from the photos I posted on the first page that the deer are foraging on the clovers amid the standing rye.

Here is another pic of a standing cover crop before it was mowed. This is one of many trails where the deer just walk through it foraging as they go. They can easily nibble on the clovers without much interference from the rye.



The other side of that coin is that is doesn't really matter how much they forage in the cover crop as there is always plenty of other clover available. I plant a clover strip around the outside edge of all of my food plots. That way I can divide a plot into 2 or 3 other sections for other crops and there is still always a clover component in every plot. Many times if the food plots are carved out of the woods, a lot of annuals don't really do all that well on the outside edges anyway because trees are robbing the soil of moisture and, in many cases, sunlight as well. Clovers still grow pretty well in these conditions and they are easy to maintain with an annual spraying in May.



This 3.5 acre destination plot has a section of alfalfa/clover mix, brassicas, a cover crop and it is surrounded by a strip of perennial clovers. I can maintain this diversity very easily with annual rotations and if the deer want clovers they can find it in 3 out of 4 of those strips.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Great looking plots!!!

 

[White Birch Farm]

Brassicas drilled into standing clover.

 

[Maddog66]

I don’t have a drill, but rather one of the “all in one” type of planters. Great discussion for me!

This coming late summer I’m planting 4 one acre clover plots on my new property. The following year, I want to do strips and chunks of annuals on rotation exactly like some of you show so well above. (Zone 4)

But for this coming fall, tell me what you think about the following seed mixture as a starting point for my plots? Kind of a mix and match exercise to see what grows on my ground. Most importantly, am I over or under seeding at those rates?

The constant in all of them will be a full rate seeding of 4 different clovers I want to test.

75#/acre cereal grain (WW and WR and oats)
10#/acre clover (4 different types I’ve selected)
2# / acre additional perennial (likely chicory and alfalfa)
2# / acre brassica (rape, turnip, etc)
1# / acre radish

My apologies if this seems like a hijack!! Certainly Not intended to be!

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Brassicas drilled into standing clover. View attachment 40815View attachment 40814

That looks great! Did you suppress the clover at all before drilling? Just wondering how this might work with broadcasting the brassicas before a good rain or if I would have to mow/suppress the clover with a light herbicide application first (would prefer just to mow but my brassicas have gotten hammered so I think the more of them I have the better).

 

[westonwhitetail]

I don’t have a drill, but rather one of the “all in one” type of planters. Great discussion for me!

This coming late summer I’m planting 4 one acre clover plots on my new property. The following year, I want to do strips and chunks of annuals on rotation exactly like some of you show so well above. (Zone 4)

But for this coming fall, tell me what you think about the following seed mixture as a starting point for my plots? Kind of a mix and match exercise to see what grows on my ground. Most importantly, am I over or under seeding at those rates?

The constant in all of them will be a full rate seeding of 4 different clovers I want to test.

75#/acre cereal grain (WW and WR and oats)
10#/acre clover (4 different types I’ve selected)
2# / acre additional perennial (likely chicory and alfalfa)
2# / acre brassica (rape, turnip, etc)
1# / acre radish

My apologies if this seems like a hijack!! Certainly Not intended to be!

I'm not sure if this is your plan but would recommend you plant the turnips and clover mid summer, then over seed the rye and oats around labor day like others have stated here. (depending on your location too). You could increase the brassica and radish seed rate a bit if you wanted. Also, this is just my experience but I usually seed radish heavier then the other brassicas because deer browse the radish greens in September and October here, while they don't touch the other stuff until later in the year.

 

[yoderjac]

I heard of people planting a brassica blend with clover at the same time. The brassicas are the primary food source the first fall, then in spring the clover comes back for spring and summer. You could either maintain the clover plot into the future then or till it under for green manure and plant something else if preferred for the next fall.

I’m just curious if anyone has done this and what their experience is? Also wondering on seed rates to be successful. TIA

I use a cover crop for fall that consists of WR/PTT/CC. Crimson is an inexpensive annual clover. I've also done it with Medium Red which is a short-lived perennial. I would not do it with a long--lived perennial clover just because of the higher cost and I'm not getting the benefit of long-life clover. I shoot for between 80 and 100 lbs of WR. I keep the brassica component low, no more than 2 lbs/ac of PTT. I shoot for about 10 lbs/ac of Crimson Clover.

Here is how it works for me in zone 7A: The main attractant for earl fall is the Winter Rye. Deer love it when it is young and supple. The PTT generally gets little attention during fall. After the cold weather moves in, they start hitting the PTT tops. In February, the bulbs become important deer food. The WR continues to get use during our warm spells when it continues to grow a little. In the early spring the WR greens up before our native plants and gets hit. The Crimson comes on strong as the WR matures and becomes less attractive. The Crimson becomes the main food until it is time for my summer rotation. Here summer is probably a bit more of a stress period than most winters.

I've been planting a mix of Buckwheat and Sunn Hemp for summer. The Crimson is fixing N for the buckwheat. The Sunn Hemp is fixing N for the PTT and WR in the following fall plant. Using min-till and no-till methods, this rotation has worked quite well for me.

The concept holds pretty well in general, but you may need to adjust the specific crops in different locations.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

I use a cover crop for fall that consists of WR/PTT/CC. Crimson is an inexpensive annual clover. I've also done it with Medium Red which is a short-lived perennial. I would not do it with a long--lived perennial clover just because of the higher cost and I'm not getting the benefit of long-life clover. I shoot for between 80 and 100 lbs of WR. I keep the brassica component low, no more than 2 lbs/ac of PTT. I shoot for about 10 lbs/ac of Crimson Clover.

Here is how it works for me in zone 7A: The main attractant for earl fall is the Winter Rye. Deer love it when it is young and supple. The PTT generally gets little attention during fall. After the cold weather moves in, they start hitting the PTT tops. In February, the bulbs become important deer food. The WR continues to get use during our warm spells when it continues to grow a little. In the early spring the WR greens up before our native plants and gets hit. The Crimson comes on strong as the WR matures and becomes less attractive. The Crimson becomes the main food until it is time for my summer rotation. Here summer is probably a bit more of a stress period than most winters.

I've been planting a mix of Buckwheat and Sunn Hemp for summer. The Crimson is fixing N for the buckwheat. The Sunn Hemp is fixing N for the PTT and WR in the following fall plant. Using min-till and no-till methods, this rotation has worked quite well for me.

The concept holds pretty well in general, but you may need to adjust the specific crops in different locations.

Thanks,

Jack

That fall combo grows well for me in east texas

I substitute arrowleaf clover for PTT because my deer wont touch turnips

A regional preference,I suppose

bill

 

[White Birch Farm]

That looks great! Did you suppress the clover at all before drilling? Just wondering how this might work with broadcasting the brassicas before a good rain or if I would have to mow/suppress the clover with a light herbicide application first (would prefer just to mow but my brassicas have gotten hammered so I think the more of them I have the better).

I have done both. Mowed and then sprayed the clover with 1qt/acre gly and also just mowed. Similar results, although pros and cons to each.

 

[Foggy47]

As in the example above, I just drilled a new cover crop into the existing clovers/rye to continue feeding my soil and banking Nitrogen. Of course, I had other crops of brassicas and alfalfa/clovers in adjacent sections of the plots so the cover crop which came up with my brassicas (and broadcasted rye) became my cereal grain component.

The following year I will terminate the cover crop and drill a new brassica plot. This will be the first year that I will not be fertilizing my brassicas (or any other food plot crops, for that matter), but following 6 years of no-till planting and cover crops my soils are getting to be pretty close to where they are building their own nuturients and Nitrogen fixing...

Here is one of the 6 soil samples I took last year - they all looked pretty similar. Dr Grant Woods has not used any synthetic fertilizers in his food plots in 8 years now - I hope to be in the same boat. I will continue to monitor my soil nutrient levels but I am pretty confident that continued no-till practices and cover cropping will prove to be the end to purchasing tons of fertilizers.

View attachment 40802

Wild Thing.....This is likely the best two pages for a no-till guy.....ever. Especially for guys up in our short growing climate. I think I have read these two pages about 5 times......and what your doing has become my ambition too. I'm getting close.

 

[Wild Thing]

Wild Thing.....This is likely the best two pages for a no-till guy.....ever. Especially for guys up in our short growing climate. I think I have read these two pages about 5 times......and what your doing has become my ambition too. I'm getting close.

Thanks Foggy. It has been working well for me here in Upper Michigan so I am sure it will work just as well on your property.

Hopefully we will get a little rain to help out. Dry as a bone around here this year.

 

[Foggy47]

Thanks Foggy. It has been working well for me here in Upper Michigan so I am sure it will work just as well on your property.

Hopefully we will get a little rain to help out. Dry as a bone around here this year.

Crazy year. We were really dry for several weeks.....then got two little passing showers on Sunday and Tuesday .....both about 1/10" each. Then Sat nite got another 2/10"......which may save us for another week or so. Things are green at my place.....but barely hanging on. Good year to be no-til for sure.

Making plans now to terminate some clover and reseed with brassica and more clover. I think I will try to plant brassica (and new clover) in about 1/2 my plot area - 4 acres or so. Maybe leaving some clover will hedge my bet on the lack of rain this year.......and I can rotate next year.

 

[Foggy47]

I've been considering how to broadcast winter rye into my strips of brassica (PTT/ DER/ Collards/ GHR and clovers) which I intend to drill into my terminated clover and rye which I will plant in early / mid July.

So I have been considering mounting my Herd spin spreader on my loader. And after seeing the below pic on the "Dipper Thread" I am going to offset my spreader to one side as shown. BUT....I think I will rotate the mount 90 degrees so I can drive alongside the strip plot and broadcast my rye mostly to one side without having to drive over the established brassica.

I think I can sling the Rye out about 30 feet or so away from the tractor.....and could seed from one side or two......depending on the width of the brasica plot. I can also lift it as high (or low) as needed to somewhat control the distance (as well as using the rheostat which controls the spin speed). I have a rope and pulley system to open/close the seed gate.

Kinda liking this idea and will likely fab a mount in the next few days. This way I can load a bushel at a time and carry about four to six more bushels in the bucket as I drive around in a HVAC cab. Gotta like this idea.

 

[rusty1034]

Here are some pics:

Here is a small plot of brassicas (with clovers mixed in) which I planted around July 8th or 9th (Zone 4b). I am broadcasting cereal rye into the standing brassicas here on August 21.
The clovers you see here are just the clover strips which I plant around the outside edge of all of my food plots. You can not see any clovers in with the brassicas.

View attachment 40781

The following June 16th - brassicas are gone but rye and clover have been feeding my deer since the snow melted...

View attachment 40782

as evidenced by the browsed clovers...

View attachment 40785

I buy bulk seed and mix my own...

View attachment 40783

In larger plots I spot some pails of rye seed around the plot so I don't have to backtrack so much when seeding...

View attachment 40784

Here is the other end of the plot - August 21...

View attachment 40786

the following June 16th...

View attachment 40787

Before I started mixing clovers and rye into my brassicas, all I would have left in the spring would be bare dirt. Adding the clovers with the brassicas keeps my soil covered, keeps living roots in my soil nearly year round, keeps weeds at bay, and fixes Nitrogen which can be used by the following crop. Lots of pluses for not much additional input.

WT, what brand of over the shoulder spreader is that ? Looks pretty beefy ! Thanks

 

[Wild Thing]

WT, what brand of over the shoulder spreader is that ? Looks pretty beefy ! Thanks

It is very beefy Rusty. It is the Earthway Ev-N-Spred which I bought many years ago. I'm sure I have seeded well over 100 acres with it over the years. I have even spread fertilizer and pelletized lime with it. They also make a bag spreader which is very popular but I just prefer the plastic bucket spreader.

 

[rusty1034]

Thank you ! I’ve tried their bag spreader. The harness on this bucket model looks much more comfortable than the single strap on the bag.

 

[Foggy47]

Had to get my plan on paper so I follow through and get my seeds in order. Basically I am following a plan much like used by Wild Thing (THANKS WT!). We have similar climate and plans......so upon seeing his pics.......I'm gonna follow that lead. Been real tempted to put more seeds into this plan.....but refraining from doing so. Here is my plan. Suggestions appreciated!

 

[Wild Thing]

Had to get my plan on paper so I follow through and get my seeds in order. Basically I am following a plan much like used by Wild Thing (THANKS WT!). We have similar climate and plans......so upon seeing his pics.......I'm gonna follow that lead. Been real tempted to put more seeds into this plan.....but refraining from doing so. Here is my plan. Suggestions appreciated!
View attachment 53506

Looks like a great plan Foggy