Brassicas and clover planted together

[westonwhitetail]

I heard of people planting a brassica blend with clover at the same time. The brassicas are the primary food source the first fall, then in spring the clover comes back for spring and summer. You could either maintain the clover plot into the future then or till it under for green manure and plant something else if preferred for the next fall.

I’m just curious if anyone has done this and what their experience is? Also wondering on seed rates to be successful. TIA

 

[Wild Thing]

Yes. I have done this. I mixed in 2# each of Medium Red and Crimson clovers with the brassica mix in early-mid-July. In late August I broadcasted cereal rye into the standing brassicas. Had lots of great forage in the spring/summer.

Watching NFC Championship game tonight. Can post some pics tomorrow.

 

[SWIFFY]

I have done the same. Worked very well. Had a great fall plot and then in the spring the rye came back great with the clover, mowed in late June and then the clover just came in like gangbusters.

 

[ruskbucks]

Not sure if you seen my post earlier, but I'm battling white clover in my brassicas plot. It is such a thick mat that it will not allow anything else to grow. Gly doesn't kill it. I don't plow anymore, just lightly disc. That didn't seem to do anything to it. NW WI I like to have late season food for the deer thru the winter. So if you ask me, don't do it. Plowing will probably keep it under control. Otherwise I would only plant a annual clover.

 

[Bill]

I always add clover to my brassicas at planting. Then I come back in the early fall and add winter rye.
The rye doesn't compete with the brassicas that way. But then it acts as a nurse crop in the spring. I keep the clover until the following year then rotate back.

Ruskbucks, throw some 2,4-D at that white clover.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I always add clover to my brassicas at planting. Then I come back in the early fall and add winter rye.
The rye doesn't compete with the brassicas that way. But then it acts as a nurse crop in the spring. I keep the clover until the following year then rotate back.

Ruskbucks, throw some 2,4-D at that white clover.

Do the clovers not compete well with the brassicas when planted at the same time? I like the sounds of this rotation.

 

[westonwhitetail]

Thanks all. If you were not to overseed with rye later in the fall, would you seed the clover at a 100% rate so in the spring the plot would be filled completely? For example maybe 6 lbs ladino with 6 lbs of a brassica mix? I suppose if I had thin areas I could overseed the rye, but I just was thinking about having a one time plant and done sort of thing for this plot.

 

[Wild Thing]

Here are some pics:

Here is a small plot of brassicas (with clovers mixed in) which I planted around July 8th or 9th (Zone 4b). I am broadcasting cereal rye into the standing brassicas here on August 21.
The clovers you see here are just the clover strips which I plant around the outside edge of all of my food plots. You can not see any clovers in with the brassicas.



The following June 16th - brassicas are gone but rye and clover have been feeding my deer since the snow melted...



as evidenced by the browsed clovers...



I buy bulk seed and mix my own...



In larger plots I spot some pails of rye seed around the plot so I don't have to backtrack so much when seeding...



Here is the other end of the plot - August 21...



the following June 16th...



Before I started mixing clovers and rye into my brassicas, all I would have left in the spring would be bare dirt. Adding the clovers with the brassicas keeps my soil covered, keeps living roots in my soil nearly year round, keeps weeds at bay, and fixes Nitrogen which can be used by the following crop. Lots of pluses for not much additional input.

 

[westonwhitetail]

Do the clovers not compete well with the brassicas when planted at the same time? I like the sounds of this rotation.

I believe the idea is clover can be slow to establish the first summer. So this way the clover gets its roots established the first fall and maybe fill in between the brassicas some but the second year clover takes over. Brassicas and the rye keep weed competition down as well. Another benefit is the clover adds nitrogen back that was utilized by the brassicas.

 

[Wild Thing]

Do the clovers not compete well with the brassicas when planted at the same time? I like the sounds of this rotation.

Not at all Wind Gypsy - Looking at the August photos I posted above you would never know there was any clover seed planted with the brassicas. The roots of the clovers grow down before they grow up and by the time the clovers start growing up the brassicas have canopied over top of them and they pretty much just exist there until the brassicas are browsed off. Then they start to shine on their own.

 

[westonwhitetail]

Here are some pics:

Here is a small plot of brassicas (with clovers mixed in) which I planted around July 8th or 9th (Zone 4b). I am broadcasting cereal rye into the standing brassicas here on August 21.

View attachment 40781

The following June 16th - brassicas are gone but rye and clover have been feeding my deer since the snow melted...

View attachment 40782

as evidenced by the browsed clovers...

View attachment 40785

I buy bulk seed and mix my own...

View attachment 40783

In larger plots I spot some pails of rye seed around the plot so I don't have to backtrack so much when seeding...

View attachment 40784

Here is the other end of the plot - August 21...

View attachment 40786

the following June 16th...

View attachment 40787

Before I started mixing clovers and rye into my brassicas, all I would have left in the spring would be bare dirt. Adding the clovers with the brassicas keeps my soil covered, keeps living roots in my soil nearly year round, and fixes Nitrogen which can be used by the following crop. Lots of pluses for not much additional input.

Those plots look amazing! Was adding 2# of medium red and crimson for a full acre of less than that? I'm just curious because I thought those were seeded at about 20#'s per acre for a monoculture stand, so that seed rate seemed light if it was for a whole acre? I was planning on seeding the clover at the full seed rate, but don't want to seed mine too heavy if it's not necessary.

 

[Bill]

Do the clovers not compete well with the brassicas when planted at the same time? I like the sounds of this rotation.

as mentioned above the clover doesn't do much until spring. If you're worried about it you could over seed the clover later in the year. even at the same time you seed the rye.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Not at all Wind Gypsy - Looking at the August photos I posted above you would never know there was any clover seed planted with the brassicas. The roots of the clovers grow down before they grow up and by the time the clovers start growing up the brassicas have canopied over top of them and they pretty much just exist there until the brassicas are browsed off. Then they start to shine on their own.

I love it, those plots look great. What kind of clovers do seed with brassicas?

If a guy wanted to plant into the clover/rye the following july/august with brassicas or oats/peas/ww mix, would a spray/throw/cultipack planting work alright or would the clovers hamper germination? I'll have to read up on when rye would need to be terminated too if I dont want volunteer rye competing with brassicas.

 

[Wild Thing]

Those plots look amazing! Was adding 2# of medium red and crimson for a full acre of less than that? I'm just curious because I thought those were seeded at about 20#'s per acre for a monoculture stand, so that seed rate seemed light if it was for a whole acre? I was planning on seeding the clover at the full seed rate, but don't want to seed mine too heavy if it's not necessary.

That is my brassica mix per acre WestonWhitetail. Here are my notes:

I drill my seed so I am getting close to 100% germination, but even when planting on July 9th, I had a great crop of clovers the following spring:

 

[SD51555]

Here are some pics:

Here is a small plot of brassicas (with clovers mixed in) which I planted around July 8th or 9th (Zone 4b). I am broadcasting cereal rye into the standing brassicas here on August 21.
The clovers you see here are just the clover strips which I plant around the outside edge of all of my food plots. You can not see any clovers in with the brassicas.

View attachment 40781

The following June 16th - brassicas are gone but rye and clover have been feeding my deer since the snow melted...

View attachment 40782

as evidenced by the browsed clovers...

View attachment 40785

I buy bulk seed and mix my own...

View attachment 40783

In larger plots I spot some pails of rye seed around the plot so I don't have to backtrack so much when seeding...

View attachment 40784

Here is the other end of the plot - August 21...

View attachment 40786

the following June 16th...

Before I started mixing clovers and rye into my brassicas, all I would have left in the spring would be bare dirt. Adding the clovers with the brassicas keeps my soil covered, keeps living roots in my soil nearly year round, keeps weeds at bay, and fixes Nitrogen which can be used by the following crop. Lots of pluses for not much additional input.

Do you leave your plot in clover/rye after that first brassica year, or do you find a way to keep putting brassicas back into those spots in subsequent years?

 

[Wild Thing]

I love it, those plots look great. What kind of clovers do seed with brassicas?

If a guy wanted to plant into the clover/rye the following july/august with brassicas or oats/peas/ww mix, would a spray/throw/cultipack planting work alright or would the clovers hamper germination? I'll have to read up on when rye would need to be terminated too if I dont want volunteer rye competing with brassicas.

Here is something I did last year with a cover crop which was planted the previous fall. It was a 12 seed cover crop, but of course, a lot of it that wasn't completely browsed out by deer winter killed and was no longer included the following spring.

June 11th - All that remains is Crimson and Medium Red Clovers, Hairy Vetch, and cereal rye. Still feeding my soil as well as my deer...





July 15th - the rye is maturing and turning brown, but the seed isn't viable yet...





Late July - early August... The seed is getting hard and turning brown. The date when the seed becomes viable may vary from year to year but around late July - early August the seed here will become viable and will germinate if you mow it and scatter the seed. You can do a rag doll test to test for germination.



August 7th - I mowed it... In this case, I did not want to plant anything additional in this plot but I did want to maintain the clovers and rye. By just mowing it I knew the viable seed would germinate, and of course, the clovers continued to grow as well...





With some timely rain I had a new crop of free rye coming up to continue the cover crop. This is on August 16th - just 9 days after mowing.



August 30th, I've got a lush cover crop for the second year. All I did was mow it once - I didn't add any additional seed or fertilizer. All I did was mow it.
This year, I will terminate the cover crop and plant brassicas again.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I am in the beginning stages of this clover/brassica mix. I planted clover (Mammoth red, medium red, alsike) and brassicas (a 1/2 acre mix of 4 different varieties-Winfred, Barkant, hunter rape and Bayou Kale) in early August after burning down a 1/2 acre of an existing hayfield. I followed up 2-3 weeks later by broadcasting with WR and WW (~100 lbs each). Right now the plot is covered in snow and deer tracks. They attacked the brassicas once the cold and snow set in. My plan for the spring is to frost seed a few more perennial varieties of clover and then wait until May or so to cut the surviving WR and WW. Or should I wait till later in the summer so I get free fawning cover and rye seed?
8/14/21

9/9/21

10/10/21
11/25/21

12/24/21
1/24/22

 

[Wild Thing]

Do you leave your plot in clover/rye after that first brassica year, or do you find a way to keep putting brassicas back into those spots in subsequent years?

As in the example above, I just drilled a new cover crop into the existing clovers/rye to continue feeding my soil and banking Nitrogen. Of course, I had other crops of brassicas and alfalfa/clovers in adjacent sections of the plots so the cover crop which came up with my brassicas (and broadcasted rye) became my cereal grain component.

The following year I will terminate the cover crop and drill a new brassica plot. This will be the first year that I will not be fertilizing my brassicas (or any other food plot crops, for that matter), but following 6 years of no-till planting and cover crops my soils are getting to be pretty close to where they are building their own nuturients and Nitrogen fixing...

Here is one of the 6 soil samples I took last year - they all looked pretty similar. Dr Grant Woods has not used any synthetic fertilizers in his food plots in 8 years now - I hope to be in the same boat. I will continue to monitor my soil nutrient levels but I am pretty confident that continued no-till practices and cover cropping will prove to be the end to purchasing tons of fertilizers.

 

[Wild Thing]

I am in the beginning stages of this clover/brassica mix. I planted clover (Mammoth red, medium red, alsike) and brassicas (a 1/2 acre mix of 4 different varieties-Winfred, Barkant, hunter rape and Bayou Kale) in early August after burning down a 1/2 acre of an existing hayfield. I followed up 2-3 weeks later by broadcasting with WR and WW (~100 lbs each). Right now the plot is covered in snow and deer tracks. They attacked the brassicas once the cold and snow set in. My plan for the spring is to frost seed a few more perennial varieties of clover and then wait until May or so to cut the surviving WR and WW. Or should I wait till later in the summer so I get free fawning cover and rye seed?
9/9/21
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10/10/21View attachment 40799
11/25/21
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1/22/22View attachment 40801

Looks great Derek Reese - Nice job!

 

[westonwhitetail]

That's an impressive rotation Wild Thing. Sounds like you could split a plot in half. Each year you would only have to plant one half of and mow the other half. One side would be the planted brassicas with young clover and rye. The other half would be the established clover and volunteer rye after mowing.