Good grief! I've been feeding deer for over 25 years in one of the wettest states in the country and have never seen knee deep mud and feces under a feeder . I'm talking deer not cows.
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Baiting, I know this has been discussed and discussed this is just my rant....LOL
- Thread starter Turkey Creek
- Start date
I’m sure you realize that everyone’s farm doesn’t look like yours.
To be clear, you don’t think any research has documented higher disease prevalence at bait sites?
BenA
5 year old buck +
I've not seen a bait site like that unless it was flooded. But, I've also seen that happen to other food when flooded as well. The thought that congregation of deer that raises the risk of disease transmission only happens at bait sites is just not true. And, food plots can raise that risk too.
From Dr Demarais at the Deer Lab (just a quick one I found):
“The relative risk comparison showed that almost three times more deer visited sample areas around feeders than equivalent areas within food plots. The more deer that frequent a small area, the greater the risk for CWD to spread through direct and indirect contact between those deer,” Demarais said. “The conclusion is that deer at feeders are more at risk for catching CWD from other infected deer than at food plots.”
Nobody wants to talk about predator population subsidization or aflatoxin?
BenA
5 year old buck +
So food plots do raise the risk factor of CWD spread.
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
I would say that’s one interpretation….two deer in the same 30 acre cornfield raise the risk factor also..just a pinch above 0…but with food plots being designed to shoot into and across with a bow that smaller area in and of itself would lend itself to more risk..
Double Creek
5 year old buck +
The pro baiting crowd never does....
It's always about making killing a deer easier, whether you are talking about Texas mesquite country or Alabama pine plantations. You know, it would be impossible to kill them in those environments without it... It' really a miracle they even existed for a million years before Moultrie was born.
And let me preface those comments above to exclude people like Baker. He obviously is extremely passionate about wildlife and puts a ton of time, money and effort into those passions. I have zero doubt that he feeds for the benefit of wildlife. From his videos and posts, it's obvious that he doesn't half ass anything. If he's feeding/baiting, you can rest assured it's the most optimal way it can be done.
The issue I have is that for every Baker, you have 100 Bubbas that are piling up corn, fruit, sweet potatoes, rotten beans, rotten cotton seeds, hell, anything you can imagine, in order to attract a deer. It's disgusting and I've seen it firsthand. I really don't think a lot of the people of this forum know what's going outside of their bubble. Spend a little time looking into what is happening in pro baiting states by the types that aren't really interested in spending their time on a habitat forum.
Its bed time, but...
Shockingly I have lots of thoughts about predators. And I am happy to share a personal experience I have regarding feeders and predators. The ONLY predator I have ever had a problem with is mountain lions. In our Mexico property lions have learned they can hang out near a feeder and a deer becomes an easy target. We have learned it is best to have a rather large area...50 yardsx50 yards at least...open to give the deer better escape. Beyond that, lions are the only predator I have ever worked to control. Not the least worried about coyotes, bob cats etc.
Aflatoxin...I brought it up as a problem for turkeys and quail in Ann earlier post. That said we have one of the best quail populations in North America in heavily fed country.
in the morning...
Just to be open minded, which many arent - standing corn with corn still in the husk can develop aflatoxin, particularly when exposed to warm, humid conditions in the field or during storage, like we have in the south and mid south.
My feeder locations are a great aid in reducing nest predator abundance - making it possible to trap feeder locations and eliminate most nest predators over a fairly large area with little effort. I have been successful, with a ten day concentrated trapping effort within 300 ft of a feeder, removing so many coons and possums i typically go about three months before getting a picture of another one.
For the last two years, I have started putting up a corn feeder adjacent to my orchard a month or so before fruit starts getting ripe. The feeder helps to attract the coons and possums, making removal much less effortless - allowing me to harvest enough fruit last year to actually can and freeze some - which I have never been able to do before. Going to be part of my fruit tree management program until things change
The free handouts quickly makes the deer start feeling entitled and creates a culture of dependence. Its well documented that by the end of the first season 90% of the herd is registered democrats, and by the 2rd season of baiting they're democratic socialists and by year 3 they're communists.
Lol. The perpetual predator machine.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
I would bet that any grain or fruit you grow or place outdoors will increase the raccoon population. If you trap, it can also help reduce the population.
I had raccoons eating my bear bait years ago. At that one site, I was able to trap 10 raccoons from several hundred acres of wilderness. It blew my mind that there were so many, and that they would come from so far away to eat the bait. And some of them were huge. The biggest was a 35 lb boar with canines worn down to nubs.
A year or two later, Ontario took away permission to hunt bears without a guide, so I quit baiting them. The sudden loss of food along with the relatively intense trapping seems to still have an effect on the population. The past few years, I have seen fewer raccoons and more grouse than ever before. This all coincided with Covid, so I can't say for sure that the change was because of me, but it sure seems so. We've also seen an increase in frogs, turtles, and snakes in the last few years.
I am just trying to provide a different non biased viewpoint. As long as it is legal to bait, people are going to bait. From what a lot of folks on this forum say, even in areas where it is illegal to bait, people are going to bait. My point is - since baiting is going to happen, make as much positive out of it as possible.
Do I bait - yes. Do I wish it was illegal - yes. Is whining and crying about it on this forum going to make it illegal - no.
We had never killed a deer over 200 lbs on our place. 183 lbs on the hoof. Five years after we started baiting, we still hadnt. After I refined what I was doing, we have killed four bucks over 200 - including a 232 lb six or seven yr old, and a couple others in the upper 190’s. Does are heavier also. That said, I cant say I have seen bigger antlers, but I believe a food source that adds weight to deer through our hot summer stress period is a positive for bucks, does, and fawns alike. My deer population has doubled - I dont attribute all of that to baiting, but it has helped.
I envy Dawgs and his 700 acres with him being the only one hunting. Very few of us are in that position. The rest of us with smaller properties and more hunters using our property have a more difficult path.
I am just trying to make the best of a bad situation.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
Protein, minerals, and water during the hot summer months should help with antler growth. I would save the high-calorie stuff for after the rut.
Maybe Baker could chime in on that.
My summer feed is 18% protien. I see more, larger antlered deer - but we have more bucks. I cant say I see an improvement at top end. It is much easier to quantify weight than antlers
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
Don’t envy me! You’ve been more successful despite having it to myself. And I think that the crux of my argument. I don’t know the environmental impacts of baiting. But I do know it makes a guy with 20 acres, which provides very little to habitat, the possibility to destroy the ability for others to manage in a way that actually benefits the species.I am just trying to provide a different non biased viewpoint. As long as it is legal to bait, people are going to bait. From what a lot of folks on this forum say, even in areas where it is illegal to bait, people are going to bait. My point is - since baiting is going to happen, make as much positive out of it as possible.
Do I bait - yes. Do I wish it was illegal - yes. Is whining and crying about it on this forum going to make it illegal - no.
We had never killed a deer over 200 lbs on our place. 183 lbs on the hoof. Five years after we started baiting, we still hadnt. After I refined what I was doing, we have killed four bucks over 200 - including a 232 lb six or seven yr old, and a couple others in the upper 190’s. Does are heavier also. That said, I cant say I have seen bigger antlers, but I believe a food source that adds weight to deer through our hot summer stress period is a positive for bucks, does, and fawns alike. My deer population has doubled - I dont attribute all of that to baiting, but it has helped.
I envy Dawgs and his 700 acres with him being the only one hunting. Very few of us are in that position. The rest of us with smaller properties and more hunters using our property have a more difficult path.
I am just trying to make the best of a bad situation.
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100% truth. I have a bunch of those guys with 20 acres and less - and no habitat - and they kill more deer than we do on 400 acres. I didnt start baiting to kill bigger bucks - I started baiting to try to keep deer that spent most of their time on my land, from going to my neighbors land. I dont like anything about it. Baiting is expensive, it takes a lot of time like I do it, no doubt the potential for increased disease transmission is there.
But I could not just sit by and watch half a dozen neighbors kill deer coming of my place - and even though I got pissed, I wasnt going to quit hunting
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Dropping a maple is waaaaay easier than filling a feeder with corn. I’ve done both many times and it’s not even debatable.
