Baiting, I know this has been discussed and discussed this is just my rant....LOL

[PatinPA]

My dad and I belong to a hunting club in WV. Approximately 20,000 acre lease and about 4000 members. We bait because it's all big woods. There are no crop fields or food plots allowed. No TSI other than the square miles of clear cuts the timber company did. If you tried to just hunt sign, you might not see a deer. That being said, hunting over bait on very pressured property is not easy. Shooting even a 2 year old buck is a challenge with a bow anyways. Now their rifle season is during the rut so that makes that different but even then we've had people from our group go down and not see much. Any buck that lives to be 2 is pretty smart down there and 3 and 4 year olds are ghosts.

 

[Mortenson]

Oof, 1 member per 5 acres. Deer actually live there?

 

[PatinPA]

Oof, 1 member per 5 acres. Deer actually live there?

Most of the members are rifle hunters only. It's crowded but not near as bad in archery season. My dad and his friends have been going down there for almost 50 years now. They said back in the 90's they would drive deer when it was all "public" land. They said most people would stop counting at 100 deer seen a day. When they started baiting it wasn't uncommon to see 30-40 a night. In the early 2000's they had a crazy winter that they got around 10 feet of snow for the winter and had as much as 7 feet on the ground at once. I swear the herd never recovered from that. Tons of coyotes and bear. A lot of years I see more buck than doe. But a good year anymore I'll see 20 deer in a week. I think this year I only saw 10 or 12 although it was shortened by the 15 inches of snow we got on the first day we were there.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Oof, 1 member per 5 acres. Deer actually live there

Sounds like the last thing they need is bait. Need to let the herd not face extinction

 

[Mortenson]

Sounds like the last thing they need is bait. Need to let the herd not face extinction

Yeah might be beneficial to cease hunting for a year or 2, collectively.

 

[SwampCat]

A season worth of ducks in a week. So now 42 ducks is a season worth? We used to average 120 ducks apiece in a season on public in SW AR. That is how far duck hunting has fallen in AR when you kill a limit everyday for a week during almost record cold - a true anomaly - and probably left your pumps running to keep your water open. Now we rejoice about a week?

Yes, I am against flooding any “hot crops”. Corn, rice, beans, millet. Hunt over normal farming practice all day long - leaving unharvested crops in the field and flooding it is not anymore a normal farming practice than spreading corn, rice, millet, etc. Or, hunt over native grown smartweeds, millets, coffee bean, panicum, etc moist soil management - fine.

Below is pic of latest duck distribution across AR during latest aerial survey

 

[BenA]

I actually agree. I don’t think from a deer herd health perspective, baiting is decimating a herd. Does it concentrate, maybe enough of it but no different than another hot food source. Cwd has spread just fine where you can’t bait and EHD has no relevance to bait.
I applaud the guys trying to find the health and wellbeing angle to outlaw it but I’m not sure that will ever work. Where I find issue is it’s not fair chase to me. Like thermals and using a drone to stalk a deer I find no distinction in killing a deer over a bait. But everyone has their own line they won’t cross and that’s mine, not the health angle, it just hasn’t proven out.

I can see how you believe that baiting is not fair chase given your experiences. But, I have decades of experience baiting in places where deer won't hardly come into food plots or ag fields during the day, much less a bait site. These are places where you don't hardly see them from the road. But, the deer are there, and some very mature ones at that. There's no amount of convincing me that baiting is not fair chase in the circumstances I hunted. That's a good part of why I bought land, and shifted my hunting to Kentucky. The deer are much easier to see and kill there.

 

[PatinPA]

Yeah might be beneficial to cease hunting for a year or 2, collectively.

There's a meeting every year where they vote on new club rules. People have gotten no doe hunting passed but someone (usually a local) will just bring a bunch of people to change it the following year. You have to be present to vote which is stupid since only about 100 people attend them. Tried to get 3 points on a side passed too. Gets voted down every time. Shockingly there are some really nice buck there for the lack of natural food. They're just impossible to kill in a week.

 

[Turkish]

Thanks, I will listen to it. One problem with feeding corn (or any grain) is that every scientist I know thinks it is a bad idea and presents data to back up their hypothesis.
Corn may may be perfectly free of fungus and contain zero aflatoxins when initially purchased but then put that in a field in Alabama with high humidity and frequent rain and the situation changes rapidly. Mold grows quickly. Also Dr Will Gulsby (Auburn, Turkey science professor) presented data in a course I took showing that 75% of corn used in feeders was Not eaten by deer. Rats, raccoons, pigs, possums, are eating a lot of feed and they are not the animals I want to “supplement”. Deer congregation in an unnatural way promotes CWD. Turkeys are at increased risk of being eaten on the way to and from the feeder and they get aflatoxin poisoning (liver damage, immune dysfunction, death) from fungus growth on corn & grain. Nest predictors are eating a lot of corn from feeders.
Anyway, I don’t think it’s a conspiracy theory. I think their are plenty of smart people who advise against it including: Dr Craig Harper, Dr Marcus Lashley, Dr Will Gulsby and others.
Sorry to perseverate.

But if we don’t subsidize predator populations with free and abundant corn served in mud, we may not be able to trap as many predators to pretend we’re helping ground nesting birds! I jest!

 

[farmlegend]

One of the things I very much dislike of baiting is it causes hunters to practice "defensive baiting", ie., having to put out bait to compete with the neighbors. And then to put out more to keep up with the neighbor's bigger piles of corn, carrots, and sugar beets.

A race to the bottom.

 

[SwampCat]

Most of the members are rifle hunters only. It's crowded but not near as bad in archery season. My dad and his friends have been going down there for almost 50 years now. They said back in the 90's they would drive deer when it was all "public" land. They said most people would stop counting at 100 deer seen a day. When they started baiting it wasn't uncommon to see 30-40 a night. In the early 2000's they had a crazy winter that they got around 10 feet of snow for the winter and had as much as 7 feet on the ground at once. I swear the herd never recovered from that. Tons of coyotes and bear. A lot of years I see more buck than doe. But a good year anymore I'll see 20 deer in a week. I think this year I only saw 10 or 12 although it was shortened by the 15 inches of snow we got on the first day we were there.

I bet back in the 90’s they had very few bears or coyotes. Deer populations in N GA are down significantly, largely due to bear and coyote numbers - that werent there 30 years ago.

 

[Turkish]

One of the things I very much dislike of baiting is it causes hunters to practice "defensive baiting", ie., having to put out bait to compete with the neighbors. And then to put out more to keep up with the neighbor's bigger piles of corn, carrots, and sugar beets.

A race to the bottom.

 

[SwampCat]

One of the things I very much dislike of baiting is it causes hunters to practice "defensive baiting", ie., having to put out bait to compete with the neighbors. And then to put out more to keep up with the neighbor's bigger piles of corn, carrots, and sugar beets.

A race to the bottom.

Agree 100%. My life would be so much easier, my bank account bigger, and my deer hunting better - if they would outlaw ALL baiting - and enforce it

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I can see how you believe that baiting is not fair chase given your experiences. But, I have decades of experience baiting in places where deer won't hardly come into food plots or ag fields during the day, much less a bait site. These are places where you don't hardly see them from the road. But, the deer are there, and some very mature ones at that. There's no amount of convincing me that baiting is not fair chase in the circumstances I hunted. That's a good part of why I bought land, and shifted my hunting to Kentucky. The deer are much easier to see and kill there.

So needing bait is a crutch for not being able to kill them otherwise? That’s kind of how I’m interpreting the need for bait. Sometimes the deer wins. That’s ok in my opinion.

 

[BenA]

So needing bait is a crutch for not being able to kill them otherwise? That’s kind of how I’m interpreting the need for bait. Sometimes the deer wins. That’s ok in my opinion.

No. In fact, baiting made it harder to kill them if hunting directly on it.

 

[Tangler]

One of the things I very much dislike of baiting is it causes hunters to practice "defensive baiting", ie., having to put out bait to compete with the neighbors. And then to put out more to keep up with the neighbor's bigger piles of corn, carrots, and sugar beets.

A race to the bottom.

Yes, agree. Also think the science is clear that it seriously hurts Turkeys. I hear uou folks say: “the deer heard is larger and healthier because of baiting” but that’s not what I have heard from Dr Craig Harper and other scientists. Maybe you are right. I am still learning, and I certainly don’t know everything and I am often wrong. I haven’t seen any scientific data that suggests I should be doing it, but maybe it is out there and I just haven’t seen it. It doesn’t seem right and I would not be surprised at all if it is helping spread CWD, killing turkeys with aflatoxins and feeding nest predators .
Regardless I know one thing for sure:
I’m not doing it.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Yes, agree. Also think the science is clear that it seriously hurts Turkeys. I hear uou folks say: “the deer heard is larger and healthier because of baiting” but that’s not what I have heard from Dr Craig Harper and other scientists. Maybe you are right. I am still learning, and I certainly don’t know everything and I am often wrong. I haven’t seen any scientific data that suggests I should be doing it, but maybe it is out there and I just haven’t seen it. It doesn’t seem right and I would not be surprised at all if it is helping spread CWD, killing turkeys with aflatoxins and feeding nest predators .
Regardless I know one thing for sure:
I’m not doing it.

I do agree I think it’s absolutely part of the turkey decline.

 

[Turkish]

No. In fact, baiting made it harder to kill them if hunting directly on it.

Then why is everyone doing it?

Its ubiquity is the best gauge of its effectiveness.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Then why is everyone doing it?

Its ubiquity is the best gauge of its effectiveness.

Thats always my favorite. Guys will tell me bucks won’t come to bait yet they won’t dare sit without it.
Remember when charcoal activated clothing was all the rage? Forget the wind just hunt. Well hunters learned pretty quickly that was bs and those products faded in obscurity. Bait on the otherhand has expanded in popularity. Why? Cause it works.

 

[Turkish]

Thats always my favorite. Guys will tell me bucks won’t come to bait yet they won’t dare sit without out.
Remember when charcoal activated clothing was all the rage? Forget the wind just hunt. Well hunters learned pretty quickly that was bs and those products faded in obscurity. Bait on the otherhand has expanded in popularity. Why? Cause it works.

There’s a guy on social media I’ve seen killing bucks with a spear. Bait pile at the base of his tree. Multiple kills every fall. It freaking WORKS!