Baiting, I know this has been discussed and discussed this is just my rant....LOL

[Howboutthemdawgs]

How do you know it didn't? Would you have killed those bucks if does hadn't concentrated activity around those, or the bucks wouldn't have them on their core ranges?

I’ve killed one buck there so I’d do it hasn’t been super effective. I’ll find out this year cause I’m not going through the effort. I’ll put some out for inventory but not run it all season long.

 

[Mortenson]

I’ve killed one buck there so I’d do it hasn’t been super effective. I’ll find out this year cause I’m not going through the effort. I’ll put some out for inventory but not run it all season long.

Don't forget you passed up a stud shooter this past season!

 

[BenA]

I’ve killed one buck there so I’d do it hasn’t been super effective. I’ll find out this year cause I’m not going through the effort. I’ll put some out for inventory but not run it all season long.

I'm going in the reverse direction. Well, maybe. Yet to be determined. I've run bait for cameras in Kentucky, but not all season, and neither of the bucks we've killed have been close to bait. I'm going to have, most probably, a lot of summer food planted this year. If cameras show bachelor groups of mature bucks, regularly using my property, I won't bait, and try to kill one early season. If not, I'm going to bait all season.

 

[Ikeman]

Zero chance to ever verify this but what percent of mature bucks shot in a bait state would you think are over bait? I don’t mean head down in a corn pile but they are in the stand and there’s bait view.
My guess is 80%. Not to say some of those bucks wouldn’t get killed otherwise obviously but I truly believe it’s a huge crutch where legal (and not). I just don’t know or hardly anyone in my sphere of friends, acquaintances, second hand stories who didn’t have bait in the picture. I know of one single person in ky that doesn’t bait besides me. ONE
So I’m not arguing the ethics of it; I’ll die on my hill that a mature buck is much more likely to be killed over bait than not.

I grew up hunting west Texas in mesquite tree country. Tallest tree you could find was maybe 20 feet to the tops. (other than narrow strips (2-3 trees wide) of cottonwoods in the river bottom)

We had brushed in archery boxes at the best feeders, and rifle boxes 150 or so yards away. In some boxes, you could see 300 yards in all directions.

Most mature bucks killed on the property were using the bait like you would expect them to use a community scrape or heavy doe bedding area…. Getting where they could see/smell the area, checking for does, maybe pick a fight with a rival… and then move on. It was just part of their circuit, rather than a food destination for them.

The only two times of year the mature bucks were consistently on the feeders in daylight were beginning of archery season and late winter.

I hunt almost exclusively public land now, and if I locate a feeder nearby on public, I assume the deer use it the same way. It has given me some good encounters over the years to hunt well away from someone else’s feeder knowing bucks will swing downwind to scent check it.


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[SwampCat]

Zero chance to ever verify this but what percent of mature bucks shot in a bait state would you think are over bait? I don’t mean head down in a corn pile but they are in the stand and there’s bait view.
My guess is 80%. Not to say some of those bucks wouldn’t get killed otherwise obviously but I truly believe it’s a huge crutch where legal (and not). I just don’t know or hardly anyone in my sphere of friends, acquaintances, second hand stories who didn’t have bait in the picture. I know of one single person in ky that doesn’t bait besides me. ONE
So I’m not arguing the ethics of it; I’ll die on my hill that a mature buck is much more likely to be killed over bait than not.

From our experience - I would say about 30% bait killed and 70% non bait killed for mature bucks. We killed the majority of ours either during rut or in a food plot - but we hunt with rifles a fair bit. This year was an odd year - we did not kill a mature buck early over bait, even though we hunted pretty hard early. We killed four mature bucks chasing does in food plots this year and that is all we killed

Now, a lot of the southern third of the state where the leases are predominately commercial timberland piney woods with very little oak timber, the numbers would be somewhat higher. West and north possibly somewhat lower because of almost four million acres of heavily hunted public land where baiting is not allowed

I have eleven mature bucks mounted and one came from a bait pile. The majority of the rest of them came from a food plot during rut and a couple bow kills on public under an oak tree.

My half dozen small landowning baiting neighbors have killed two mature bucks that I know of in the last two years. Typically, these folks using spin feeders are not killing mature bucks. We have never killed a mature buck off a spin feeder.

My buddy who hunts the 1100 acres kills a mature buck with his bow every year over bait. First year this year in 20 years he did not

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Don't forget you passed up a stud shooter this past season!

For sure. Would have shot it in hindsight if I’d have known it would have been shot over a feeder later in the year. Was hoping he would make it and be a giant next year

 

[SwampCat]

For sure. Would have shot it in hindsight if I’d have known it would have been shot over a feeder later in the year. Was hoping he would make it and be a giant next year

Would you have shot it if you had known it would be killed in a food plot later in the year?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Would you have shot it if you had known it would be killed in a food plot later in the year?

Obviously. I’m just saying had I known it would have been killed I would have shot. I just had an unrealistic hope he would make it

 

[SwampCat]

Obviously. I’m just saying had I known it would have been killed I would have shot. I just had an unrealistic hope he would make it
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They dont get bigger if they are not alive. About 75% of our harvest occurs Thanksgiving weekend or before. If I see a good deer I would think about passing, I usually dont do it unless it is after thanksgiving weekend. If much before - I dont - but That depends on where and what else I am hunting.

But to be honest, they dont get bigger in the freezer. Always a big chance to take.

 

[H20fwler]

I think here the majority of the “trophy” bucks are killed in early November every year. They may be close to feed but only because that’s where the does are.

As said earlier about some bucks seeming nocturnal, I’ve had the same here. A few year ago I had a really nice one only coming through during the night.

 

[Brian662]

I think there is a giant misconception in the hunting community about "nocturnal" bucks.

 

[SwampCat]

I think there is a giant misconception in the hunting community about "nocturnal" bucks.

I think a lot of folks, like myself, when speaking of nocturnal bucks are referring to a specific buck that is almost totally nocturnal when on the land you have access to. One of my properties is 62 acres. A specific buck may be 100% nocturnal on my land, but wander around in the daytime like a lost dog on other land where I do Not have access.

I do also expect there are some folks who believe when they get only nocturnal pictures of a buck, they also believe he is only nocturnal 100% of the time. I have read enough studies to know that is probably not true - but I wouldnt totally discount it.

 

[H20fwler]

I have had a couple bucks that only come through my property at night, they definitely are seen on others farms in daylight because they end up getting shot. The part of the loop they travel just usually hits nights for me.

 

[BenA]

I didn't believe many people believed in nocturnal deer anymore. With all the deer that have been gps collared and tracked, there has not been one documented case of a nocturnal deer.

What can happen, which I've witnessed, and has been scientifically documented, is deer can be conditioned to primarily nocturnal use of bait sites. They can be conditioned to using many habitat components or areas almost exclusively at night, avoiding those places during the day. I'm sure we've all witnessed that type of behavior adaptation.

 

[Native Hunter]

I've seen those night travelers change ranges and switch to daylight bucks during the rut. This is likely to happen if you have a good concentration of does and great cover for them to move about in during daylight. Bucks changing ranges during the rut is well documented through many studies.

 

[Telemark]

I think a lot of folks, like myself, when speaking of nocturnal bucks are referring to a specific buck that is almost totally nocturnal when on the land you have access to. One of my properties is 62 acres. A specific buck may be 100% nocturnal on my land, but wander around in the daytime like a lost dog on other land where I do Not have access.

I do also expect there are some folks who believe when they get only nocturnal pictures of a buck, they also believe he is only nocturnal 100% of the time. I have read enough studies to know that is probably not true - but I wouldnt totally discount it.

Exactly this.

 

[farmlegend]

I believe even the wariest buck will slip up now and then. The buck I have been hunting for four years now has been on one of my cameras in shooting light four times in four years. My buddy who hunts the next property over has him three of four times during daylight in the past two years. The cattle rancher who owns the property and is out everyday year round - has never seen the deer.

But that said, my buddy who bow hunts that 1100 acres by himself - commonly gets pictures of daytime bucks that I only get at night. But that property gets very little hunting pressure compared to mine. He has 9 adjacent property owners - most who allow hunting. I have 14 adjacent property to my 350 acres - all who allow hunting. No gun hunting on my neighbors property. A lot of gun hunting on my property.



The deer are like night and day depending on if they are on his property or mine. But that should not be new to anyone. A duck wont hardly land on my waterholes with duck food in them. He has ducks on all his farm ponds. Same ducks flying over his land that fly over mine - and my duck habitat is much better than his - as is my deer habitat.

People on the time on this forum are worried about being on their land when its not deer season - or even a chain rattling on a gate. That tells me folks at least think human activity affects deer behavior. We have a well used 400 yard rifle range on our property and probably shoot a 1000 or more clay pigeons n the course of the year. My neighbors live on their property, they all have dogs, cats, kids running wild and screaming. They are shooting possums and coons out of their yards every other night. My cattle ranching neighbor has no dogs, no kids, no rifle hunting - in fact, my buddy who hunts that place hunts three, five day periods in a year - and keeps bait out all fall. If a chain rattling on a gate worries a deer, then my family hunting every other week, with guns, dogs barking, kids screaming, guns shooting - I figure the deer can tell the difference.

If I have learned one thing in the world by owning two pieces of property 8 miles apart - game does not act the same everywhere

Excellent comment and I have observations quite similar.

Whitetails, at their core, are prey animals with highly evolved predator avoidance instincts. And they are good at what they do.

Pressure - its presence, the type of it, the lack of it - is everything.
They are very sensitive to pressure and sensing what sort of human activity is threatening or non-threatening to them. When I make rounds around my property doing chores, running tractors, UTV's, chainsaws or whatever, making plenty of noise, they're aware of it, move off, give me a wide berth, let me go about my business - and when I depart, they come right back to munch on buds from trees I've felled our feed or even bed in food plots I just traipsed across. Knowing where you're at, I believe, gives them a sense of prey-animal control of the situation.
But tip-toe silently into their bedroom and spook them...can freak them the F out right now and put them in a more cautionary, nocturnal mode, and even encourage them to relocate.
I've had older bucks on trailcams with nighttime pics only for years, that no one has ever seen in daylight.
An old lady down the road had a 90 acre parcel that she sold two years ago. In the 60+ years she lived there, no hunting or trespassing was allowed on it, right smack dab in an area with lotsa lotsa hunting pressure. Much of her property was park-effect woods that you could see right through. In spite of it being some of the poorest deer habitat in the neighborhood, you could literally drive by on the road which bounded it and see deer, even older bucks, walking around in the open timber throughout the day...during hunting season. She sold the land to guys that hunt and those same woods are now mostly devoid of deer.

In the deer world, pressure is a pretty big deal.

 

[SwampCat]

Forgive me if I don’t put all my faith in one study when I’m watching the opposite happen around me and from my lifetime of connections back in Georgia it’s the same there.
On the topic of pressure. Obviously these are estimates but it shows it’s pretty close per square mile and then once you takeaway how open ky is I’d put the edge to ky on pressure.
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You can deer hunt with a gun for 86 days in GA. It is kind of hard to tell about KY - maybe slightly less than 40 days including all youth seasons. At any rate, 86 days standard modern firearms season in GA. 16 days standard modern firearm season in KY?

 

[Mortenson]

Excellent comment and I have observations quite similar.

Whitetails, at their core, are prey animals with highly evolved predator avoidance instincts. And they are good at what they do.

Pressure - its presence, the type of it, the lack of it - is everything.
They are very sensitive to pressure and sensing what sort of human activity is threatening or non-threatening to them. When I make rounds around my property doing chores, running tractors, UTV's, chainsaws or whatever, making plenty of noise, they're aware of it, move off, give me a wide berth, let me go about my business - and when I depart, they come right back to munch on buds from trees I've felled our feed or even bed in food plots I just traipsed across. Knowing where you're at, I believe, gives them a sense of prey-animal control of the situation.
But tip-toe silently into their bedroom and spook them...can freak them the F out right now and put them in a more cautionary, nocturnal mode, and even encourage them to relocate.
I've had older bucks on trailcams with nighttime pics only for years, that no one has ever seen in daylight.
An old lady down the road had a 90 acre parcel that she sold two years ago. In the 60+ years she lived there, no hunting or trespassing was allowed on it, right smack dab in an area with lotsa lotsa hunting pressure. Much of her property was park-effect woods that you could see right through. In spite of it being some of the poorest deer habitat in the neighborhood, you could literally drive by on the road which bounded it and see deer, even older bucks, walking around in the open timber throughout the day...during hunting season. She sold the land to guys that hunt and those same woods are now mostly devoid of deer.

In the deer world, pressure is a pretty big deal.

This guy films a lot of unpressured deer.

 

[SwampCat]

I really think it's the same. Maybe, even smarter to bait the way you bait them. Draw deer to an area to make it a focal point for their core range, and then hunt around those areas.

One of my goals it to attract as many does to my property as possible. I try to do the exact opposite of what Jeff Sturgis recommends. I have three spin feeders with their own doe groups. While we dont hunt those feeders, I know the presence of the feeders increases my doe density. I believe the increased doe density increases my buck density and daytime buck movement.

My county is now in a cwd zone and we will no longer supplemental feed outside of deer season. I fully expect to see a decline in deer density.