Baiting, I know this has been discussed and discussed this is just my rant....LOL

[Turkey Creek]

Land and Legacy just had a 90 minute podcast on the subject. I found it so ironic and so blatantly obvious that they spent 90 minutes JUSTIFYING why they recommend baiting to their habitat customers. Really boils down to two reasons people use bait on their property. One they justify the fact that they "will never KILL a deer" because my neighbors all have bait out or they are making $$$ off the fact that they can get hunters to pay them to shoot deer off their property with guided "hunts". Their podcasts have become less and less about habitat work and more about how to kill a deer one way or the other. While not directly saying it ..... they hinted in every way possible on that podcast that even if you aren't in a state that legally allows baiting you should be doing it, because all your neighbors already are.

You can choose to use bait if you like, just don't bother trying to justify it to me. There is not a single valid reason other than the 2 I listed above for baiting. Baiting has absolutely no positive impact on wildlife populations. They made the comment in the podcast that if any biologist wanted to reach out to dispute what they were saying to please do so...... funny how they shut off the comments section for the audio podcast and the YouTube version of the podcast. What a joke these 2 have become. I won't bother to listen to or watch another thing they produce the rest of their existence and for the sake of wildlife I hope they decide to retire from pretending to be knowledgeable soon.

 

[BenA]

You can't "habitat" your way into keeping deer away from a neighbor who is consistently baiting. If they hunt the bait right, they can outdraw the best of habitat.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

You can't "habitat" your way into keeping deer away from a neighbor who is consistently baiting. If they hunt the bait right, they can outdraw the best of habitat.

That is so frustrating, but it is true. I think the fines for illegal baiting should be dramatically increased to provide a disincentive for that crap. Minnesota doesn't allow baiting, but it is crazy how many land listings show some type of feeder or bait pile in the background of big buck pictures.

 

[Maddog66]

You’re both right imo.

 

[Turkey Creek]

You can't "habitat" your way into keeping deer away from a neighbor who is consistently baiting. If they hunt the bait right, they can outdraw the best of habitat.

That is your opinion. Maybe so when there is nothing but pine trees for deer to eat other than a bait pile. My biggest gripe about the podcast is they claim to be stewards of the land and the resources, but when their true cards are on the table it boils down to how do I get my customers to routinely shoot big deer in ALL HABITAT types so that they will recommend me to the next guy and I can collect another pay check. As I said if you are baiting so you can kill a deer so be it. Just don't tout yourself as a habitat genius, then say, "Put your bait pile right over there.", and hold your hand out for the next check.

 

[BenA]

That is your opinion. Maybe so when there is nothing but pine trees for deer to eat other than a bait pile. My biggest gripe about the podcast is they claim to be stewards of the land and the resources, but when their true cards are on the table it boils down to how do I get my customers to routinely shoot big deer in ALL HABITAT types so that they will recommend me to the next guy and I can collect another pay check. As I said if you are baiting so you can kill a deer so be it. Just don't tout yourself as a habitat genius, then say, "Put your bait pile right over there.", and hold your hand out for the next check.

You can do baiting and habitat work at the same time. In some cases, you almost have to if you want to be in the game. Even in areas with plenty of agriculture, baiting can have an affect on deer movement.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

That is your opinion. Maybe so when there is nothing but pine trees for deer to eat other than a bait pile. My biggest gripe about the podcast is they claim to be stewards of the land and the resources, but when their true cards are on the table it boils down to how do I get my customers to routinely shoot big deer in ALL HABITAT types so that they will recommend me to the next guy and I can collect another pay check. As I said if you are baiting so you can kill a deer so be it. Just don't tout yourself as a habitat genius, then say, "Put your bait pile right over there.", and hold your hand out for the next check.

I've seen illegal and legal bait piles out compete superior habitat in Minnesota and Wisconsin, even when there is extremely productive ag and mast trees around. A pile of corn or apples next to a bedding area becomes an immediate staging area that can be very hard to compete with.

One of my neighbors laughed when he saw me planting apple trees. He would consistently shoot some of the biggest bucks around in a stand 20 yards from his mailbox next to a swamp using apples in his bait pile. He could bait that site every day without spooking deer and it simply worked better than I ever would have guessed.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Land and Legacy just had a 90 minute podcast on the subject. I found it so ironic and so blatantly obvious that they spent 90 minutes JUSTIFYING why they recommend baiting to their habitat customers. Really boils down to two reasons people use bait on their property. One they justify the fact that they "will never KILL a deer" because my neighbors all have bait out or they are making $$$ off the fact that they can get hunters to pay them to shoot deer off their property with guided "hunts". Their podcasts have become less and less about habitat work and more about how to kill a deer one way or the other. While not directly saying it ..... they hinted in every way possible on that podcast that even if you aren't in a state that legally allows baiting you should be doing it, because all your neighbors already are.

You can choose to use bait if you like, just don't bother trying to justify it to me. There is not a single valid reason other than the 2 I listed above for baiting. Baiting has absolutely no positive impact on wildlife populations. They made the comment in the podcast that if any biologist wanted to reach out to dispute what they were saying to please do so...... funny how they shut off the comments section for the audio podcast and the YouTube version of the podcast. What a joke these 2 have become. I won't bother to listen to or watch another thing they produce the rest of their existence and for the sake of wildlife I hope they decide to retire from pretending to be knowledgeable soon.

My thoughts on baiting are crystal clear. It’s not fair chase to me plain and simple no grey area. I’m more impressed if you kill a spike fair chase than a 200 over a corn pile.

But to your point above, those two have become unlistenable. They are oddly arrogant, and very annoying. Another point, they have no educational background in this or conduct any current research. They just parrot stuff that the actual experts study.

 

[Turkey Creek]

My thoughts on baiting are crystal clear. It’s not fair chase to me plain and simply no grey area. I’m more impressed if you kill a spike fair chase than a 200 over a corn pile.

But to your point above, those two have become unlistenable. They are oddly arrogant, and very annoying. Another point, they have no educational background in this or conduct any current research. They just parrot stuff that the actual experts study.

100% agree on your comments regarding them and their podcast. Unless like this baiting podcast, they try to downplay all the scientific research or say its "Contradicting" to again justify why they are recommending baiting. Talk about arrogant, if you look at their website they are the only "Tier 2 Consultants" all the "Tier 1 Consultants" (some of them who have far more work experience than them) must have their work reviewed by Tier 2 Consultants. They are even arrogant/ talk down to each other at times, which has made me chuckle........ a couple of times I thought we might even hear some fists fly. All their Tier 2 BS is because they paid QDMA for the certificate. We all know why we are here now and not on the QDMA Forum which no longer exists.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I tried listening to them when I was getting into habitat improvement and never found them to be particularly convincing on most topics.

That said, i see no reason why bait or supplemental feed cant be part of a plan in conjuction with habitat where doing so is legal. I dont like bait and i'm glad to hunt primarily in non-bait states but i dont fault people for doing it where legal and needed to level the playing field.

I find supplemental feed quite a bit easier to support.

 

[BenA]

I just listened to the podcast. The 3 of them each said they'd outlaw baiting and make huge fines if they could wave a magic wand. I don't see how that makes them pro-baiting. You can bait, but also be against baiting.

 

[bigboreblr]

Think it was 6 or 7 years ago. Started watching hunting TV shows a bit. A guy on the show was gonna git her done with a single shot rifle. Stared at a wobbling deer for 30 seconds after the single shot...... Alot about ego, not a lot about ethics. I think those shows discourage the average Joe hunter.

Some people think what we are doing is baiting. Trees n fields. I don't like it. Many people like it, many people do it. I don't talk hunting n fishing to a lot of people.

Seen those big wooden apple boxes on trailer heading to the Adirondacks a few times.

 

[Feelslikefar.]

You can bait, but also be against baiting.

I would say at best, that makes you not very good at being against it. lol

 

[Turkish]

I just listened to the podcast. The 3 of them each said they'd outlaw baiting and make huge fines if they could wave a magic wand. I don't see how that makes them pro-baiting. You can bait, but also be against baiting.

I agree. While I have found myself listening to these guys less and less, I didn’t infer from the podcast that they were pro-baiting. Now, I didn’t like that they said they would recommend baiting strategies to clients either. But I don’t think they are quite as culpable as the OP says.

Now, I will disagree with you a little. You can bait but also be against baiting …. But not without shame. And I tell my best friends that every chance I get. :)

 

[Turkey Creek]

I just listened to the podcast. The 3 of them each said they'd outlaw baiting and make huge fines if they could wave a magic wand. I don't see how that makes them pro-baiting. You can bait, but also be against baiting.

That is at the end of podcast, where they talked about if they were President of the United States and could pass a law that would be the law of the land. You seem to be missing my point and thats ok.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

They sell habitat advice and services to hunters who want better hunting. What are they supposed to say? Wax poetic about being purists and looking at the quality of their edge feathering while their neighbors hammer deer near bait?

 

[356]

I listened to their podcast Saturday, and doubt if many listeners were enlightened—I sure wasn’t. First, I wish Matt and Adam would not take every opportunity to throw daggers at their former employer. This is a common theme, and will not serve them well in the future. Second, they pretty much state they would bait if it gave them a legal advantage, but since it is not legal in Missouri, they don’t bait. At least they are being honest. Third, they make it sound as if “everyone is baiting in Missouri.” Of the neighboring farms, there is one who baits, while the vast majority do not. It’s nowhere close to a quarter, and that is likely true in most places outside of the southern Ozarks. Even my poaching neighbor at the cabin property does not use bait (although it appears they buy out the doe attractant section at Walmart).

I’m glad Adam and Matt have done well, and I am sure they know their stuff and have helped many landowners. However, I have learned much more from observation, good books and this forum than from their podcast.

 

[Turkish]

They sell habitat advice and services to hunters who want better hunting. What are they supposed to say? Wax poetic about being purists and looking at the quality of their edge feathering while their neighbors hammer deer near bait?

Honestly…. They should probably just keep their mouth shut. The intro to the podcast sounded like they were ready to really step out on a ledge. They then proceed to state they’re against baiting … but not enough for them to let it to affect their income. That’s a bad look.

In the first 5 minutes I thought they were about to really take a polarizing stance. Instead, it was a shallow, limp-wristed riding of the middle.

 

[ksJoe]

Even if people would follow law, outlawing "bait" just changes how people bait.

The federal prohibition on baiting migratory birds just means the $10 bag of bird seed is illegal to dump on the ground during dove season. But if you can afford the time, you can take that same bag of bird seed and broadcast it in the spring. Let the milo grow through the season, then "manipulate" it consistent with "agriculture practices" (i.e. mow or burn it).

 

[Turkish]

Even if people would follow law, outlawing "bait" just changes how people bait.

The federal prohibition on baiting migratory birds just means the $10 bag of bird seed is illegal to dump on the ground during dove season. But if you can afford the time, you can take that same bag of bird seed and broadcast it in the spring. Let the milo grow through the season, then "manipulate" it consistent with "agriculture practices" (i.e. mow or burn it).

Is this a defense of baiting? Doves and deer?

There are no corn fields to manipulate in pine plantations.