Ash trees

[Tap]

I had a thread on that other forum talking about ash trees and their impending doom due to the Emerald Ash Borer. All mature ash are dying around here. It's hard to find one alive. I'm not so sure that is a bad thing from a deer's perspective, though. Mature ash don't seem to be very useful to deer, and, in fact,they create a lot of shade that reduces ground cover and also slows the growth of young oaks and other beneficial species.
But a few years ago, I came up with an idea that if I cut my ash while there was still some life in them, they will stump sprout and allow roots to survive and produce a medium preference browse and a little cover.

This photo is of an ash stump that is sprouting profusely. This ash was very effected by the EAB and was within a couple years of complete death...roots and all. I cut this tree in my niece's yard about 4 years ago.
It's roots are not only alive, but they appear to be healthy enough to produce these sprouts which are being heavily browsed.
I see a few good reasons to cut these doomed ash while it's still alive.

1st is that it's dangerous to fell dead trees. May as well safely drop it and make some firewood.

2nd is that we can preserve the life of the roots and provide browse and cover.

I'm really not sure how I currently feel about the loss of the ash species. I do hate the loss of native species to due to a non-native pest. On the flip side, I'm trying to look at the glass as half full. Reduced shade, and better low cover, more browse, and the releasing of other species that are floundering in the shade of ashes isn't all bad. In the background of the photo, you can see an ash stump from a tree that was cut AFTER it was dead. There are no stump sprouts. The ash that was cut while alive is still benefiting deer and holding soil from eroding.
I say cut 'em now while (or if) they are still alive.

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[Knehrke]

While I don't want to see a field of widowmakers, there's certainly wildlife benefit to standing deadfalls or snags (albeit not to deer). In areas where there are only a few ash I've chosen to leave them standing. Once the borer takes over, the ash lack their canopy and don't shade new growth, so the forest floor opens up.

The only down side to this is when snags fall unexpectedly. I had an old bare tree...dead elm I think...fall straight down a line of ninebark plantings. Took out at least ten of them! I just rolled the log aside and reapplied the protection to the mostly still okay shrubs. They were bent but unbroken. I figure it's Nature and rotting logs are good for the soil, too.

So, I agree that there are benefits to cutting them, but leaving them standing is a reasonable choice, too. Box Elder on the other hand...cut 'em all.

 

[Catscratch]

Great experiment Tap! It seems to work and like you said; keeps the ash root system alive, provides browse, and opens the canopy.
I do the same thing with hedge trees. Deer love to browse the leaves but once they are to big they don't do much for deer. I cut them for firewood but don't treat the stump so that it sprouts. Eventually the roots die (I think it runs out of energy due to less total leafs to feed them).

 

[Tap]

While I don't want to see a field of widowmakers, there's certainly wildlife benefit to standing deadfalls or snags (albeit not to deer). In areas where there are only a few ash I've chosen to leave them standing. Once the borer takes over, the ash lack their canopy and don't shade new growth, so the forest floor opens up.

The only down side to this is when snags fall unexpectedly. I had an old bare tree...dead elm I think...fall straight down a line of ninebark plantings. Took out at least ten of them! I just rolled the log aside and reapplied the protection to the mostly still okay shrubs. They were bent but unbroken. I figure it's Nature and rotting logs are good for the soil, too.

So, I agree that there are benefits to cutting them, but leaving them standing is a reasonable choice, too. Box Elder on the other hand...cut 'em all.

I don't disagree with any of that. The loss of shade that we have already seen (even with the dead ash still standing) is substantial and the forest floor is rapidly changing. A lot of deer movement patterns are evolving due to trail blockages, cover changes which will lead to bedding area changes, and greater availability of new food sources from the loss of shade. The access to some of my stands is more difficult now because some areas are almost impossible to walk through. The forest is changing, big time. In some areas on our property, I'd estimate that 50% of mature trees are ash and 99% of them are dead. The cover at ground level is exploding.
For most of us around here, short of doing a logging operation, there are far too many ash trees that a landowner could handle cutting. They are extremely prevalent. We can preserve the life of the roots of some, but there will still be thousands of dead left standing. The critters that need dead snags will have a lot of resources during the next few years...until the ash finally fall. Then the soil will benefit from the rotting trees. Nothing goes to waste in nature.
I wonder if the EAB will run it's course and die out. If so, can we or should we try to preserve some of our ash by cutting them and keep them in an immature age until the EAB is gone? I don't see many young ash being attacked.
And I also wonder (and worry) that after the EAB have destroyed all of the ash, will they then attack other hardwoods like oak?
So I do agree with the things you said but I also think cutting, at least some, while they're alive may be a good fit on some properties and may possibly preserve the ash as a species.
Our woods are absolutely loaded with widow makers right now. There isn't a hunt that goes by that I don't hear large trees or branches fall somewhere. Access roads are blocked with downed ash and I see ladder and tree stands perched 20 feet up dead trees. It's too dangerous to remove the stands and it's a matter of time until the tree falls and possibly destroys the stand. If anyone has stands on ash trees, get them down before the tree is compromised.
And be careful out there. There's a ton of hazards in the ash forest right now.

 

[Tap]

Great experiment Tap! It seems to work and like you said; keeps the ash root system alive, provides browse, and opens the canopy.
I do the same thing with hedge trees. Deer love to browse the leaves but once they are to big they don't do much for deer. I cut them for firewood but don't treat the stump so that it sprouts. Eventually the roots die (I think it runs out of energy due to less total leafs to feed them).

Thanks.
I've been hinge cutting a lot of the younger ash trees and those are basically kept in a younger age. I see very few of ash in that age class being attacked by EAB. If the EAB infestation does die out, I'm hoping some of those trees that I kept "immature" can be then allowed to grow to maturity. My goal when I first started hinging those 2 to 4 inch trees wasn't to protect from the EAB. It was just for the cover creation that hinging creates. But I've seen that a lot of those hinged trees are still alive and healthy in their immature state. I wonder if they would already be dead if I wasn't hinging them.

 

[Buckly]

If you're in the middle of an infestation then there is nothing that you do that will harm anything. If you can get some browse out of it then that is good. Hopefully other species will sprout up anyway and you'll be good. The forester is telling me that every ash will eventually be gone for good so by cutting them you really have nothing to lose. I'm about 10-20 years away from infestation so I cut all the mature ash for timber as the price was really good. The others are just small trash trees I will cut as needed for blocking or trail clearing. I think getting them gone and out of the way now just lets the other species get going faster right now rather than later.

 

[scott44]

We have the same thing going on here in MI, I have been hinging some of the smaller ash trees for awhile. We have a open area that had a bunch of them in and I hinged them at 4-6' and made some bedding and a visual screen from the neighbors.





Quite a few of them have been hinged for 3 years and still are alive.





Lots of regen from the stumps



Pic of our woods and the more mature Ash trees, the understory has really thickened up with a variety of shrubs.





We also lost one in our front yard.





I hate to see the devastation EAB has caused but it has in a way helped, most of our woods was park like and now it's thick. I guess I would have liked to decide which trees were going to go but it is what it is. We will have to get in there and take some of the larger ones down over the winter for firewood.

 

[Tap]

We have the same thing going on here in MI, I have been hinging some of the smaller ash trees for awhile. We have a open area that had a bunch of the and I hinged them 4-6' and made some bedding and a visual screen from the neighbors.





Quite a few of them have been hinged for 3 years and still are alive.





Lots of regen from the stumps



Pic of our woods and the more mature Ash trees, the understory has really thickened up with a variety of shrubs.





We also lost one in our front yard.





I hate to see the devastation EAB has caused but it has in a way helped, most of our woods was park like and now it's thick. I guess I would have liked to decide which trees were going to go but it is what it is. We will have to get in there and take some of the larger ones down over the winter for firewood.

Excellent post and great pics.

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[hillHuntR]

My woods is seeing benefits also due to the increased light allowed in around all the dead trees. I did hinge all i could, but i did not cut down many i wanted due to steep slopes, and most often not being able to drop them without damaging good oaks. Hoping the ash break down and fall eventually causing less damage...down side is my woods will be dangerous on a windy day soon

 

[scott44]

Here's a couple pics of the hinged Ash from a couple weeks ago, they areon the edge of a switch field.



Going to try and hinge these ones down this winter too.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Tap, post #4 and Buckly, post #6 - The state foresters I've talked to here said the EAB will kill all the ash trees eventually. They said it will eat itself out of house & home and eradicate itself ( supposedly ). They also said ash seeds have been saved from native trees and put in frozen suspension for future forest re-stocking. I hope they are correct.

 

[Tap]

Tap, post #4 and Buckly, post #6 - The state foresters I've talked to here said the EAB will kill all the ash trees eventually. They said it will eat itself out of house & home and eradicate itself ( supposedly ). They also said ash seeds have been saved from native trees and put in frozen suspension for future forest re-stocking. I hope they are correct.

Glad to hear they aren't gonna move on to other species like oak (or whatever).
I still think that cutting a percentage of them while they are still alive will eke-out a few more years of benefit to deer. I also think there will be enough dead ones that aren't cut that are left to stand to benefit woodpeckers and such.
But once again...there are hundreds of widow makers out there when the ash die. There is an element of danger in the woods until they come down.

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[Bowsnbucks]

You're right about the widow-makers. I like your idea of cutting them to get some browse and maybe save the root system. I'm not sure of this ...... but I think I read somewhere that the EAB attacks mature ash trees and wood. If that's the case ( and I'm remembering correctly !), your idea of cutting them while still alive may save some just because they're making new, young growth. No mature wood to bore and lay eggs. I'll have to call our foresters to find out.

 

[Bluecollaroutdoors]

I have thousands of them in a 7 acre marsh in the middle of my woods. We didn't think they died from ash borer. The water table has changed a bit and we think they drowned out. In winter when that area freezes solid we have been taken a 4 wheeler out on the ice over a bout a foot of water and skidding out the dry/dead ash. It can literally go from standing to in your fireplace the same day as the top 80 percent is bone dry.
I will look for some sprouting when I take a walk this weekend but I think everything we cut down was toast. We just look to the tops and if the bark is slipping badly we took them down.

Maybe I need to cut down and mark a smaller one that is still alive and note the sprouts or progress in fall. I am very interested in what will replace those trees as we did open up the canopy to some degree in there even if it is just 20 percent or so.

 

[Tap]

I have thousands of them in a 7 acre marsh in the middle of my woods. We didn't think they died from ash borer. The water table has changed a bit and we think they drowned out. In winter when that area freezes solid we have been taken a 4 wheeler out on the ice over a bout a foot of water and skidding out the dry/dead ash. It can literally go from standing to in your fireplace the same day as the top 80 percent is bone dry.
I will look for some sprouting when I take a walk this weekend but I think everything we cut down was toast. We just look to the tops and if the bark is slipping badly we took them down.

Maybe I need to cut down and mark a smaller one that is still alive and note the sprouts or progress in fall. I am very interested in what will replace those trees as we did open up the canopy to some degree in there even if it is just 20 percent or so.

The cover in my woods is really thickening up where the ash have died. A lot of it is multiflora rose, which my deer love. But some patches of MFR have been effected by the disease they are getting. Japanese stilt grass is really taking hold everywhere. I think the stilt is gonna be a dominant species.

SW Pa

 

[scott44]

I've went in and planted a bunch of oaks in the affected area, I have more plantings planned for this spring.

 

[Bluecollaroutdoors]

I always find it interesting to see the drastic differences in everyones properties. To be honest Tap I couldnt pick out multiflora if my life depended on it.
I would imagine where my ash is missing there will be more small tag alder and grass that grows. You can count about 50 evergreens and in that 7 acres and they are all on little knobs that are a foot higher than the rest of the landscape. The cool part is all you have to to is look for greens up top in fall and there is usually a bed at the base of the tree. That 1 foot of elevation is all they need in there. Everything else would provide a wet butt.

Scott I have about 3 openings on the entire property that size and they are all in plots. Very little sunlight hitting the ground anywhere.
Thanks for sharing guys.

 

[chummer]

My town just awarded a contract for 200k+ to cut any ash tree within falling distance of a road. Sweet contract for someone. They are all marked and most of them are under 6"

 

[Tap]

I always find it interesting to see the drastic differences in everyones properties. To be honest Tap I couldnt pick out multiflora if my life depended on it.

You'd soon be able to pick one out if you brushed-up against a MFR bush...nasty thorns that angle downward on each stem/branch. The harder you pull away, the more it digs in to your hide.
MFR is the number 1 reason why I consider pruning sheers an essential part of my hunting gear. There are massive patches of it in Ohio that are like mazes. I've needed pruners just to get through a 5 yard barrier of MFR in order to get out of the maze and into the field. A horrible ordeal in nightime woods is quite possible in a maze of MFR...no exaggeration.

One of my best stands hung over a scary MFR bush, that bush was 10 foot high, had massive branches, and wicked thorns by the thousands...I always shuddered at the thought of falling out of the tree into that bush. I seriously believe that I would need rescue help to get out. That crap grabs ahold and doesn't let go...carry pruners.



SW Pa

 

[Tap]

My town just awarded a contract for 200k+ to cut any ash tree within falling distance of a road. Sweet contract for someone. They are all marked and most of them are under 6"

They're doing a lot of cutting along road here, but it amazes me that they are only pruning-back some of these doomed trees. There is a ridiculous example of that near my job. I'll try to get a pic on Tuesday.
Cutting ash will be a major expense and extremely hazardous in many places. Healthy ash are brittle and can be dangerous to fell...cutting a dead or dying ash could be taking your life into your hands.

SW Pa