Apples,apples and more apples

[Chainsaw]

Steve, thanks for posting the picture of your Turning Point. Those leaves look great. Am looking forward to seeing it heavy with fruit in a future January picture.

Even after planting 80+ apple trees this spring, I still feel like a part timer after reading this.

A lot of hard work, great job and inspiring!

Thanks Tree Spud. Eighty plus trees each year is a lot of apples for a working guy, really for even a retired guy, especially if they are all special great deer trees. I have a vision here of a two mile long edge of apple woods thinking once a buck starts to follow it he just can't leave it in the middle as he will encounter one doe group after another along the entire two mile edge. It may never get completed but then again, maybe it will.

 

[Chainsaw]

I probably should have bought a tractor or bobcat years ago, but have got by without it.
I occasionally have rented or borrowed one.

This year I did no bench grafting. I topworked some older trees and also topworked a dolgo rootstock planted in the spring of 2020. I have 4 more dolgo rootstock that we’re planted spring of 2020 in their final location. I am not sure if I will top work them or leave them grow as is.


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We are all different Sandbur as to the tools we like. I bought my tractor new about twenty years ago and except for the dead of winter it gets used for something most every day. We are currently having a cottage built from lumber we dragged out with our tractor after cutting the trees down. The tractor was additionally useful in loading logs onto the sawmill when we milled them. And now again the tractor is useful for loading the boards from the drying piles to a trailer to haul the lumber to the job site. This is just one tiny example of how a tractor has done work for us. If the tractor were to stop working tomorrow, I'd purchase another. As my mechanic said when I bought my tractor, "I heard you have added a new member to your family". I didn't know what he meant then but I get it now. With the high prices of lumber if not for the help of the tractor in making boards, we would not be having a new cottage built today.

I've not learned top working yet nor have I tried it. However if any of the Dolgo root stocks planted this year show unacceptable rust then I'll definitely try top working. Otherwise I'll just let them show their stuff. So far despite three major rust releases all of the Dolgo's all clean.


Note; mostly we put two to a cage but as we were near the end three were planted in some and this one even had four planted in one cage as it was our last spot to plant in the Dolgo funnel.. We are trying to duplicate what they look like in our woods.

 

[Tree Spud]

Steve, thanks for posting the picture of your Turning Point. Those leaves look great. Am looking forward to seeing it heavy with fruit in a future January picture.


Thanks Tree Spud. Eighty plus trees each year is a lot of apples for a working guy, really for even a retired guy, especially if they are all special great deer trees. I have a vision here of a two mile long edge of apple woods thinking once a buck starts to follow it he just can't leave it in the middle as he will encounter one doe group after another along the entire two mile edge. It may never get completed but then again, maybe it will.

Sounds like a cool plan. Sometimes it's more about the journey that the destination ... enjoy and look forward to more progress pics!

 

[sandbur]

We are all different Sandbur as to the tools we like. I bought my tractor new about twenty years ago and except for the dead of winter it gets used for something most every day. We are currently having a cottage built from lumber we dragged out with our tractor after cutting the trees down. The tractor was additionally useful in loading logs onto the sawmill when we milled them. And now again the tractor is useful for loading the boards from the drying piles to a trailer to haul the lumber to the job site. This is just one tiny example of how a tractor has done work for us. If the tractor were to stop working tomorrow, I'd purchase another. As my mechanic said when I bought my tractor, "I heard you have added a new member to your family". I didn't know what he meant then but I get it now. With the high prices of lumber if not for the help of the tractor in making boards, we would not be having a new cottage built today.

I've not learned top working yet nor have I tried it. However if any of the Dolgo root stocks planted this year show unacceptable rust then I'll definitely try top working. Otherwise I'll just let them show their stuff. So far despite three major rust releases all of the Dolgo's all clean.
View attachment 35234

Note; mostly we put two to a cage but as we were near the end three were planted in some and this one even had four planted in one cage as it was our last spot to plant in the Dolgo funnel.. We are trying to duplicate what they look like in our woods.

I have an occasional dolgo seedling that show CAR, but I may have ‘fence jumper’ pollen in some seedlings. My mature, true dolgo have other crabs and apples nearby.


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[Chainsaw]

I have an occasional dolgo seedling that show CAR, but I may have ‘fence jumper’ pollen in some seedlings. My mature, true dolgo have other crabs and apples nearby.


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No doubt you would have other tree's genes mixed in. I'll keep a close watch and report on presence or absence of rust on the planted Dolgo seedlings at the end of the summer. I also noticed no rust in the rootstock of the grafted trees. Last year in the nursery many of the various clonal rootstock portions of the trees had rust on them early on. This years' rootstock all came from Ryan so maybe it is breeding truer on the rust aspect.

I trimmed some roots off the Dolgo rootstock of some when planting to make them fit and the few discarded roots left in the soil each themselves developed roots. I am guessing that making rootstock from our clean Dolgo cuttings might be a viable way to make "clean" rootstock. Has anyone played with that? Based on my limited experience of growing a few from seed it was not worth the effort over just buying it, just thinking it might be fun to "make" a few rootstocks.

Did a second kill on a possible nursery bed for 2022. There were daylily seedlings and weeds in it. The daylilies are difficult to kill as are some of the weeds so beds are done a year ahead of time. This one will now be roto-tilled to help kill what survived and to bring up more weed seeds to get germinated. The cycle goes on until fall when it will get it's final kill AFTER its final roto-tilling. In a perfect world it would be covered with weed cloth after the fall roto-tilling to help keep it clean to avoid killing it yet again next spring just before planting. Maybe this fall it could be covered.


Nearby weeds and grass of course will get mowed in a couple of weeks to not add any extra weed seeds to the killed bed. Should have been mowed before fawning season but missed that window so just have to wait.
Another great day, 53 degrees, love these cool mornings!

 

[sandbur]

No doubt you would have other tree's genes mixed in. I'll keep a close watch and report on presence or absence of rust on the planted Dolgo seedlings at the end of the summer. I also noticed no rust in the rootstock of the grafted trees. Last year in the nursery many of the various clonal rootstock portions of the trees had rust on them early on. This years' rootstock all came from Ryan so maybe it is breeding truer on the rust aspect.

I trimmed some roots off the Dolgo rootstock of some when planting to make them fit and the few discarded roots left in the soil each themselves developed roots. I am guessing that making rootstock from our clean Dolgo cuttings might be a viable way to make "clean" rootstock. Has anyone played with that? Based on my limited experience of growing a few from seed it was not worth the effort over just buying it, just thinking it might be fun to "make" a few rootstocks.

Did a second kill on a possible nursery bed for 2022. There were daylily seedlings and weeds in it. The daylilies are difficult to kill as are some of the weeds so beds are done a year ahead of time. This one will now be roto-tilled to help kill what survived and to bring up more weed seeds to get germinated. The cycle goes on until fall when it will get it's final kill AFTER its final roto-tilling. In a perfect world it would be covered with weed cloth after the fall roto-tilling to help keep it clean to avoid killing it yet again next spring just before planting. Maybe this fall it could be covered.
View attachment 35238

Nearby weeds and grass of course will get mowed in a couple of weeks to not add any extra weed seeds to the killed bed. Should have been mowed before fawning season but missed that window so just have to wait.
Another great day, 53 degrees, love these cool mornings!

51 here and I will soon be back out to water trees. I watered 20 last night. There are about 50 I keep watered and another twenty of red Dolgo rootstock that occasionally get water.

As to the dolgo rootstock, somewhere I posted some pictures from last year. One of the dolgo rootstocks has three ‘carrots’ to it. I cut off one piece and grafted Lee 37 to the root piece. It did well. I buried the grafting tape just at soil level and about July 1, I dug down just enough to slit the tape.


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[Bowsnbucks]

Thanks Tree Spud. Eighty plus trees each year is a lot of apples for a working guy, really for even a retired guy, especially if they are all special great deer trees. I have a vision here of a two mile long edge of apple woods thinking once a buck starts to follow it he just can't leave it in the middle as he will encounter one doe group after another along the entire two mile edge. It may never get completed but then again, maybe it will.

I like the idea of "steering" your deer travel with a line of apple trees. Like fishing for bucks with apple trees / doe groups.

 

[Chainsaw]

I'm sure we have all noticed how bucks often travel along the hedgerows that contain apple trees and most often they choose under the outside edge of the apple trees to make their ground scrapes and licking branches. Bowsnbucks, I like your comparison description "like fishing for bucks with apple trees / doe groups". Additionally I'm hoping it could cause the bucks to spend more time on our property as they search for and hook up with "our" resident does as that spells bucks possible reaching older ages if they spend more time on this property. We all know the bucks have their own mind and often don't cooperate with our plans but if we set up our steered apple travel way keeping in mind what we have seen bucks do in the past, the fish will be biting.

Native, I don't have enough mature pear trees to have witnessed a similar relation with bucks and pear trees; have you found your bucks reacting to the pear trees as they do the apple trees?

 

[Chainsaw]

Nursery is waking up nicely now. Watered twice last week and the central leaders responded well. There are a few late comers and a few misses but overall, much improved over last year. It is amazing how much they grew int the last three days. A deep watering followed by the three hottest days of the year apparently was just what they needed.

 

[Tree Spud]

Nursery is waking up nicely now. Watered twice last week and the central leaders responded well. There are a few late comers and a few misses but overall, much improved over last year. It is amazing how much they grew int the last three days. A deep watering followed by the three hottest days of the year apparently was just what they needed.

Looking good sir!

 

[Chainsaw]

Thanks Tree Spud. I am thrilled to see the grafting working. Funny thing is I likely will have more trees than I could plant but am still ordering more rootstock for 2021. Grafting is addicting for sure.

 

[Chainsaw]

Opened this red fleshed apple yesterday to see if red fleshed apples showed color early.
note-apple is about the size of a nickel at this point.

 

[sandbur]

Thanks Tree Spud. I am thrilled to see the grafting working. Funny thing is I likely will have more trees than I could plant but am still ordering more rootstock for 2021. Grafting is addicting for sure.

I have seriously tried to cut back on my apple planting and grafting.


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[Bowsnbucks]

I have seriously tried to cut back on my apple planting and grafting.


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We were running out of room at camp for more apple & crab trees - but we just had a bit of logging done to get rid of some pines. So we might have some space to plant a few more. I'm not grafting for those though - we'll buy them - probably from Blue Hill and Cummins.

 

[sandbur]

We were running out of room at camp for more apple & crab trees - but we just had a bit of logging done to get rid of some pines. So we might have some space to plant a few more. I'm not grafting for those though - we'll buy them - probably from Blue Hill and Cummins.

Will pH be low if the land was in pines?


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[Bowsnbucks]

Yep - pH will be low, so we'll need to lime it big-time - at least where I plant apples or crabs. Even with all those needles, there are some tiny seedling maples, hickories, and oaks coming up. We'll probably cage some of those groups of seedlings to keep the deer off them until they get big enough to fend for themselves. They'll be good browse and thicker cover at some point.

 

[Chainsaw]

Yep - pH will be low, so we'll need to lime it big-time - at least where I plant apples or crabs. Even with all those needles, there are some tiny seedling maples, hickories, and oaks coming up. We'll probably cage some of those groups of seedling to keep the deer off them until they get big enough to fend for themselves. They'll be good browse and thicker cover at some point.

Hickory, mixed with oaks on the north edge of the cutting with the apples and pears taking up the south view if it runs that way would be a dream combination. Throw in an understory of red dogwood in the apple area and just sit back and enjoy the action. Rusty showed me a fallow field near his house where the landowner mows apparently annually and yet the red dogwood continues to spread and grow great browse.

We have a four acre stand of wild apple trees bordered by a larger area of hickory trees and it has been our most consistent stand area despite hunting the stand location for over thirty years now. Whenever we host a new young hunter that we feel can handle the excitement, it is our go-to stand area when the wind is right. The apple trees aren’t as plentiful there as they once were but the whole combination still works. The understory is out of control blackberries since our heavy tree harvest a few years back which seems to have improved the setup. A red dogwood understory amongst the apples section mowed every couple of years might be the ultimate longer term combo matched up beside/in front of Hickory and oaks. The cover has become so thick that the setup mostly not recognizable to most people that have looked at it as the layout is not visible during hunting season. However once walked in spring, it is easy to see why it works so incredibly well there.

Sounds like you have a great spot in the making Bowsnbucks! Looking forward to hearing how it develops for you.

 

[Chainsaw]

I have seriously tried to cut back on my apple planting and grafting.


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I am with you on that Sandbur, at least regarding grafting; am planning to keep grafting down to only 100 rootstock for 2022. That grafting can be done in an easy day using the grafting tool so it won’t interfere so much with the rather large fruit tree prepping and planting project scheduled to take place here starting later this summer thru next spring.

 

[Troubles Trees]

That grafting can be done in an easy day using the grafting tool

What grafting tool do you prefer? I bought one (Omega I think?) 10'ish years ago but I wasn't impressed with it so I did them by hand with descent success.

 

[Chainsaw]

Troubles Trees,
I had tried a hand held tool and wasn’t happy the the cuts made. I don’t remember the brand but it was just cheap junk.
Ended up with a Scionon bench grafting tool.

Had cut myself twice the first year grafting with mostly a Victorinox grafting knife and a safety knife. It became obvious that my lack of hand coordination was going to end in some bad cuts even while wearing no-gloves. Chose the Scionon bench grafting tool as it looked very safe and made nice grafting cuts. It worked out perfectly so far cutting Lots of grafts and not cutting fingers.

In addition to the bench toll a tape dispenser also sold by Moser was used.

Grafting Systems-TAU-Tape Applicator - Grafting Systems

GS-TAU-20: Grafting Systems Tape Applicator Unit The Grafting Systems TAU is a more economical tape applicator made from off the shelf parts. It is not part of the modular GBU unit, but is intended to be mounted separately on the bench grafting table. We recommend mounting a TAU as a separate...

graftingsystems.com

The tape dispenser made my grafts much tighter than those wrapped the year before without the dispenser. The dispenser spool did not fit on Parafilm brand tape which I had become accustomed to using but a little bit of electrical tape to resize the tape holder spool took care of that easily. I had tried using edit to Bio-Graft tape which fit the spool and it was a nice tape with lot’s of stretch but with the normal high winds here the Bio-Graft tape unraveled on some of the grafts.