Apples,apples and more apples

[rocksnstumps]

My grafted dolgo drops everything by early Oct, never any late hangers. Think more variation happens with seedlings as Sandbur has shared over the years

 

[H20fwler]

Fruit size, shape, and tenacity looks like Callaway crab to me.

It definitely shares some of the traits of a Callaway.
Closer inspection of the fruit this fall should help some. I kick myself for not paying better attention to it in fall…that time of year always seems to be so busy and goes much to fast.
The house it is at was built in the late sixties and my guess is it was either purchased as a mail order or from a farm store at the time.
I can’t see any obvious graft evidence low on the trunk so it could have been a seedling at the time.
I do know that I really like what I have seen so far with it and want plenty of them out at the farms to feed wildlife. The slow drop long hang time Is exactly the kind of trees I like!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Nice find and great idea to graft some. It has the right traits for sure. Good luck with them !!

 

[Chainsaw]

That is just super H20. Good luck with the "new" tree and make a ton of them. We went thru the same scenario with Turning Point. We see it every day but just didn't take the time to pay attention to every detail about it. Rusty who also lives up here in the north country found a tree growing in his neighborhood last year that has great potential. It was so neglected and overgrown yet it keeps on pumping out and holding apples late. He got permission from the owner to take a few cuttings which we did. Scions were almost non-existent but we have a couple of grafts that took so far. And maybe it be a quick grower, we'll see. Letmgrow also from the north country has a special tree growing in his area! Each of the two landowners in our deer management co-op have also "found" they have one special tree on each of their properties. Before Turning Point they and I didn't really pay that much attention. The point being that we all need the mindset that great trees may already be growing in every area, we each just need to see them as we rush thru our day and then pursue the dissemination and multiplication of them. And as said before, while I will try every special tree from almost anywhere hoping it might work here as well and no doubt many will do well here, it is also possible that the trees that do well in our own respective neighborhoods are some of our best prospects to pursue.

 

[Chainsaw]

Held off planting grafts outside until May 9 this year, took about a week to get them in the ground. Keeping them in the coolers with ice seemed to have kept them nice and dormant.
Here is the main nursery area on May 23. There were a few starting with tiny growth on some buds and almost just an illusion of color on some bud tips. It was encouraging but progress seemed very slow.

One by one though each day a few would begin showing life, very slow but steady. A few caterpillars were found on some and removed. Maybe should have dusted but just kept an eye out for leaf damage. When leaf damage was spotted, the culprit would be on the underside of the leaf. By June 7 many grafts had awakened and everyday more were coming alive.

Mulching began June 7 with four layers of newspaper and a couple of inches of very rotted down wood chip mulch. note; used rotted down mulch because that is what I had. Managed to step on some plants while mulching, destroyed two grafts. Planted them closer than recommended (planted at 1 ft. apart versus two feet apart). We'll see if it works OK. Got one full size bed of Turning Point completely mulched. Have two full size beds and a smaller bed yet to mulch.


Plants in the remaining beds other than Turning Points will be tagged with aluminum ID tags before mulching. While it is all mapped out and all plants are still standing it is fairly easy to tag them. At this point there are still some grafts still waking up and an unknown number that might not. Am very happy with the success rate to date though. When all beds are mulched a water pump will be hooked into the old well and or the pond and watering will begin along with some spot fertilizer testing. If I started watering before mulching, the weed growth would quickly dwarf the tree growth. Exterior fence screens are planned to be installed by fall to protect the plants thru winter from rodents.

Meanwhile new growth is constantly sprouting on the rootstock and needs pruning off regularly. Here is a picture of the smaller overflow bed and you can see it is in need of pruning again, just had done it four days before taking this picture the other day.


We used two kinds of tape using one kind on some grafts and the other kind on other grafts and we definitely liked one kind over the other. Will get a count of success percentages of each tape once the new sprouting slows down. This area gets a lot of wind and full sun most of the day; One kind of tape had broken down and began to unwind before it was time. Jury rigged some of them with red electrical type tape as the unwinding developed.

 

[sandbur]

Held off planting grafts outside until May 9 this year, took about a week to get them in the ground. Keeping them in the coolers with ice seemed to have kept them nice and dormant.
Here is the main nursery area on May 23. There were a few starting with tiny growth on some buds and almost just an illusion of color on some bud tips. It was encouraging but progress seemed very slow.
View attachment 35171
One by one though each day a few would begin showing life, very slow but steady. A few caterpillars were found on some and removed. Maybe should have dusted but just kept an eye out for leaf damage. When leaf damage was spotted, the culprit would be on the underside of the leaf. By June 7 many grafts had awakened and everyday more were coming alive.
View attachment 35172
Mulching began June 7 with four layers of newspaper and a couple of inches of very rotted down wood chip mulch. note; used rotted down mulch because that is what I had. Managed to step on some plants while mulching, destroyed two grafts. Planted them closer than recommended (planted at 1 ft. apart versus two feet apart). We'll see if it works OK. Got one full size bed of Turning Point completely mulched. Have two full size beds and a smaller bed yet to mulch.
View attachment 35173

Plants in the remaining beds other than Turning Points will be tagged with aluminum ID tags before mulching. While it is all mapped out and all plants are still standing it is fairly easy to tag them. At this point there are still some grafts still waking up and an unknown number that might not. Am very happy with the success rate to date though. When all beds are mulched a water pump will be hooked into the old well and or the pond and watering will begin along with some spot fertilizer testing. If I started watering before mulching, the weed growth would quickly dwarf the tree growth. Exterior fence screens are planned to be installed by fall to protect the plants thru winter from rodents.

Meanwhile new growth is constantly sprouting on the rootstock and needs pruning off regularly. Here is a picture of the smaller overflow bed and you can see it is in need of pruning again, just had done it four days before taking this picture the other day.
View attachment 35174

We used two kinds of tape using one kind on some grafts and the other kind on other grafts and we definitely liked one kind over the other. Will get a count of success percentages of each tape once the new sprouting slows down. This area gets a lot of wind and full sun most of the day; One kind of tape had broken down and began to unwind before it was time. Jury rigged some of them with red electrical type tape as the unwinding developed.

Great job and well organized.

Did you use any Buddy Tape?

Do you have pocket gophers to tunnel into the nursery?

With that amount of trees, you will need a digging machine to transplant. I struggle with digging 4-5 seedlings out of my garden(but not this next year, another story).


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[Chainsaw]

Thanks Sandbur. I did not use any Buddy Tape. I had bought a single roll but ended up using just the Parafilm and the Bio-graft tape. The price on the Buddy tape was very high in comparison and I was most comfortable using the parafilm. The Parafilm used was 1 inch wide and the Bio-graft was just a little wider. Both tapes had nice strecth to them. I won't know which of the two tapes will end up with the higher percentage of successful grafts for a month or so. All that is evident so far is that the parafilm didn't unravel as much as the Bio-graft tape did. In less windy conditions there might not have been unraveling. Thus so far of the two, parafilm wins for here. The real measurement though will be in the graft success rate which as stated is yet to be determined.

We don't have pocket gophers here. I'm just thinking mice or voles could be a threat in the winter. Last year no screen surrounded the nursery. I did place mice bait stations around the outside edge of the fence. There were a few trees bit into but not many, all survived. All baits were fully consumed. Bait stations will be used inside the fence this winter as the nursery location is more residential than last years nursery location.

Digging is done with a woods machine backhoe on our blue tractor. It may take a few plants to get the hang of it. I too would struggle to hand dig trees. The trees in this years nursery are planted in very sandy soil, almost really pure sand. It is amended heavily with ten year old horse manure. It has an endless supply of water within pump reach. I'm expecting it will need watering at least weekly and maybe even twice weekly.

 

[H20fwler]

Held off planting grafts outside until May 9 this year, took about a week to get them in the ground. Keeping them in the coolers with ice seemed to have kept them nice and dormant.
Here is the main nursery area on May 23. There were a few starting with tiny growth on some buds and almost just an illusion of color on some bud tips. It was encouraging but progress seemed very slow.
View attachment 35171
One by one though each day a few would begin showing life, very slow but steady. A few caterpillars were found on some and removed. Maybe should have dusted but just kept an eye out for leaf damage. When leaf damage was spotted, the culprit would be on the underside of the leaf. By June 7 many grafts had awakened and everyday more were coming alive.
View attachment 35172
Mulching began June 7 with four layers of newspaper and a couple of inches of very rotted down wood chip mulch. note; used rotted down mulch because that is what I had. Managed to step on some plants while mulching, destroyed two grafts. Planted them closer than recommended (planted at 1 ft. apart versus two feet apart). We'll see if it works OK. Got one full size bed of Turning Point completely mulched. Have two full size beds and a smaller bed yet to mulch.
View attachment 35173

Plants in the remaining beds other than Turning Points will be tagged with aluminum ID tags before mulching. While it is all mapped out and all plants are still standing it is fairly easy to tag them. At this point there are still some grafts still waking up and an unknown number that might not. Am very happy with the success rate to date though. When all beds are mulched a water pump will be hooked into the old well and or the pond and watering will begin along with some spot fertilizer testing. If I started watering before mulching, the weed growth would quickly dwarf the tree growth. Exterior fence screens are planned to be installed by fall to protect the plants thru winter from rodents.

Meanwhile new growth is constantly sprouting on the rootstock and needs pruning off regularly. Here is a picture of the smaller overflow bed and you can see it is in need of pruning again, just had done it four days before taking this picture the other day.
View attachment 35174

We used two kinds of tape using one kind on some grafts and the other kind on other grafts and we definitely liked one kind over the other. Will get a count of success percentages of each tape once the new sprouting slows down. This area gets a lot of wind and full sun most of the day; One kind of tape had broken down and began to unwind before it was time. Jury rigged some of them with red electrical type tape as the unwinding developed.

Holy cow that is a lot of grafts!!!!!
Looks fantastic. I will be planting a couple Turning Point next spring and am really looking forward to them.
You have a lot of screening caging and watering in your future! I don't envy you that. I'm putting around forty or more new fruit trees in next spring and that seems like a lot of work to me...but a labor of love.

 

[Chainsaw]

Thanks H20. Planting is a lot of "labor" but it is what I want to do and it doesn't feel like work. The only task that I find tedious is the weed matting. Am currently matting the last of the Dolgo funnel seedlings. The grass and weeds are about four feet high now and must be clipped before the mat can be put down. While the cage is off to place the mat, each tree gets trimmed, the pre-cut mats then need about ten staples each to hold them down and then whatever rocks were dug out of the hole are placed on top of the mat. It all takes about ten minute to set each mat. Will definitely plan to not hold off on matting till later next year. Had cut most of the earlier weed mats to three feet square but am using four foot square on the Dolgo funnel trees (seedlings) to see if the larger mat makes a difference in tree growth. Watering after planting doesn't seem to be necessary here to date. Once the plant gets comfortable planted in its final spot in the soil they seem to take the summer dryness in stride. Watering the trees would definitely boost their growth but it would just not be possible time wise. This is not so for the trees in the nursery of course.
Picture shows a planted seedling pair, weed matted soon after planting last month. Will take a picture of one of the trees to be weed matted this morning--what a difference in grass/weed growth and in the trees as well. 58 degrees out--great day!

H20, If I was not retired. forty trees a year might be a max amount of grafting and planting for me as well. Planting forty trees over a ten year period is a lot of trees though, especially if they are the right trees! Most of us didn't know about the RIGHT trees in our earlier days.

 

[sandbur]

Thanks H20. Planting is a lot of "labor" but it is what I want to do and it doesn't feel like work. The only task that I find tedious is the weed matting. Am currently matting the last of the Dolgo funnel seedlings. The grass and weeds are about four feet high now and must be clipped before the mat can be put down. While the cage is off to place the mat, each tree gets trimmed, the pre-cut mats then need about ten staples each to hold them down and then whatever rocks were dug out of the hole are placed on top of the mat. It all takes about ten minute to set each mat. Will definitely plan to not hold off on matting till later next year. Had cut most of the earlier weed mats to three feet square but am using four foot square on the Dolgo funnel trees (seedlings) to see if the larger mat makes a difference in tree growth. Watering after planting doesn't seem to be necessary here to date. Once the plant gets comfortable planted in its final spot in the soil they seem to take the summer dryness in stride. Watering the trees would definitely boost their growth but it would just not be possible time wise. This is not so for the trees in the nursery of course.
Picture shows a planted seedling pair, weed matted soon after planting last month. Will take a picture of one of the trees to be weed matted this morning--what a difference in grass/weed growth and in the trees as well. 58 degrees out--great day!
View attachment 35186
H20, If I was not retired. forty trees a year might be a max amount of grafting and planting for me as well. Planting forty trees over a ten year period is a lot of trees though, especially if they are the right trees! Most of us didn't know about the RIGHT trees in our earlier days.

Not knowing about the right trees is correct. I planted 25 Manchurian crabs from the SWCD over 30 years ago. I also got some seedlings from my Grandma in law, which was the better choice.

We will see how this planting of dolgo rootstock works out. I wonder if the variation in apples comes from the pollen source for the seed trees. I have dolgo seedlings purchased from the SWCD, where the Buckman Crab came from. Maybe those trees were from Lincoln Oaks, but I am not sure. I have other dolgo seedlings from my own trees. The different leaf color in the sources indicates some differences in expressed genetics.

This year I ordered weed mats from the SWCD in an adjacent county.I could buy 25 mats and a bag of 100 staples at a very reasonable price compared to online. Mats were pre cut and go down quickly.

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[Chainsaw]

Thanks Sandbur, I'll check out their staple and mat prices for next year. I may be over-stapling, using too many staple per cloth if you are using only four staples and find that to be sufficient. Our ground is very rocky in some areas and hammering the staples in takes some time with sometimes many false starts occurring. How many years have you gotten out of the ground cloths?

I have a small stand of crabs planted long ago that are useless as well, at least for deer. They are beautiful during blossom time but that is it.

 

[Buckly]

I use a 3 pound hammer for the staples. I use the ones with the round ( circle top) that works best for me. With the 3 pound hammer it only takes a swift tap. One and done.

 

[sandbur]

Thanks Sandbur, I'll check out their staple and mat prices for next year. I may be over-stapling, using too many staple per cloth if you are using only four staples and find that to be sufficient. Our ground is very rocky in some areas and hammering the staples in takes some time with sometimes many false starts occurring. How many years have you gotten out of the ground cloths?

I have a small stand of crabs planted long ago that are useless as well, at least for deer. They are beautiful during blossom time but that is it.

Top work them to different varieties. I have turned one of the Manchurians into a franken tree. It’s a place to save scion/varieties and sample different apples.

This is the first year to use these mats. 30+ years ago, I used a non woven, plastic mat that was smaller. Both were advertised as VisPore, but they have changed. The new ones are woven and bigger.


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[Chainsaw]

I like the idea of using the non-deer crab apples for scion holders of special trees. Sounds like a fun project but have to put new projects on hold until I get caught up. These beauties on the right will just have to remain just beauties for a while.

I think there are ten of them there, they would surely make a lot of scions. Need to work on planting last years nursery apples first, hoping to try some fall transplanting. Many of them are pushing five and six feet now.


and the 2020 pear nursery plants will be ready for planting by fall as well with some now pushing seven feet.


Last of the Dolgo funnel weed mats being done in a few minutes! Yahoooo!

 

[sandbur]

I like the idea of using the non-deer crab apples for scion holders of special trees. Sounds like a fun project but have to put new projects on hold until I get caught up. These beauties on the right will just have to remain just beauties for a while.
View attachment 35196
I think there are ten of them there, they would surely make a lot of scions. Need to work on planting last years nursery apples first, hoping to try some fall transplanting. Many of them are pushing five and six feet now.
View attachment 35197

and the 2020 pear nursery plants will be ready for planting by fall as well with some now pushing seven feet.
View attachment 35198

Last of the Dolgo funnel weed mats being done in a few minutes! Yahoooo!

You have a ton of work ahead of you, digging and transplanting those big trees.

If my seedlings emerge one spring, I transplant them to the final location the next spring.


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[sandbur]

Not knowing about the right trees is correct. I planted 25 Manchurian crabs from the SWCD over 30 years ago. I also got some seedlings from my Grandma in law, which was the better choice.

We will see how this planting of dolgo rootstock works out. I wonder if the variation in apples comes from the pollen source for the seed trees. I have dolgo seedlings purchased from the SWCD, where the Buckman Crab came from. Maybe those trees were from Lincoln Oaks, but I am not sure. I have other dolgo seedlings from my own trees. The different leaf color in the sources indicates some differences in expressed genetics.

This year I ordered weed mats from the SWCD in an adjacent county.I could buy 25 mats and a bag of 100 staples at a very reasonable price compared to online. Mats were pre cut and go down quickly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am in the process of replacing these tree tube contraptions with window screen. I do this in about year two or three in their final location when they have about a four foot height. I usually thumb prune lower leaves, but have been a bit careful at doing this because of the drought.

There is a big front about 75 miles to the west. Let’s hope the drought breaks!


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[Chainsaw]

You have a ton of work ahead of you, digging and transplanting those big trees.

If my seedlings emerge one spring, I transplant them to the final location the next spring.


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Planting on their first spring as you do is probably the better way. They are really no bigger though (yet) than some of the ones Ryan shipped out in 2020 when I was there. I saw them trim many varieties of pear trees down to get them to fit into the six foot box. I'll no doubt trim mine heavily as well to help them establish quicker. Work wise it will be slow and steady, not such a big deal when the tractor does all of the heavy work and what doesn't get done doesn't matter. I'd rather have work left over than run out.

Two advantages of letting them stay in the nursery two summers are if there is a bad grafting year due to freezes or whatever, there is still tree planting that can be done, and and those that don't make the first winter in the nursery will be time not wasted by having transplanted them at one year old dead or weak. Winter kill risk in my mind especially applies to some of the pears as they are not necessarily tested to our coldest winters, close to our coldest but not our coldest.

 

[sandbur]

Planting on their first spring as you do is probably the better way. They are really no bigger though (yet) than some of the ones Ryan shipped out in 2020 when I was there. I saw them trim many varieties of pear trees down to get them to fit into the six foot box. I'll no doubt trim mine heavily as well to help them establish quicker. Work wise it will be slow and steady, not such a big deal when the tractor does all of the heavy work and what doesn't get done doesn't matter. I'd rather have work left over than run out.

Two advantages of letting them stay in the nursery two summers are if there is a bad grafting year due to freezes or whatever, there is still tree planting that can be done, and and those that don't make the first winter in the nursery will be time not wasted by having transplanted them at one year old dead or weak. Winter kill risk in my mind especially applies to some of the pears as they are not necessarily tested to our coldest winters, close to our coldest but not our coldest.

I probably should have bought a tractor or bobcat years ago, but have got by without it.
I occasionally have rented or borrowed one.

This year I did no bench grafting. I topworked some older trees and also topworked a dolgo rootstock planted in the spring of 2020. I have 4 more dolgo rootstock that we’re planted spring of 2020 in their final location. I am not sure if I will top work them or leave them grow as is.


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[Tree Spud]

Held off planting grafts outside until May 9 this year, took about a week to get them in the ground. Keeping them in the coolers with ice seemed to have kept them nice and dormant.
Here is the main nursery area on May 23. There were a few starting with tiny growth on some buds and almost just an illusion of color on some bud tips. It was encouraging but progress seemed very slow.
View attachment 35171
One by one though each day a few would begin showing life, very slow but steady. A few caterpillars were found on some and removed. Maybe should have dusted but just kept an eye out for leaf damage. When leaf damage was spotted, the culprit would be on the underside of the leaf. By June 7 many grafts had awakened and everyday more were coming alive.

Mulching began June 7 with four layers of newspaper and a couple of inches of very rotted down wood chip mulch. note; used rotted down mulch because that is what I had. Managed to step on some plants while mulching, destroyed two grafts. Planted them closer than recommended (planted at 1 ft. apart versus two feet apart). We'll see if it works OK. Got one full size bed of Turning Point completely mulched. Have two full size beds and a smaller bed yet to mulch.


Plants in the remaining beds other than Turning Points will be tagged with aluminum ID tags before mulching. While it is all mapped out and all plants are still standing it is fairly easy to tag them. At this point there are still some grafts still waking up and an unknown number that might not. Am very happy with the success rate to date though. When all beds are mulched a water pump will be hooked into the old well and or the pond and watering will begin along with some spot fertilizer testing. If I started watering before mulching, the weed growth would quickly dwarf the tree growth. Exterior fence screens are planned to be installed by fall to protect the plants thru winter from rodents.

Meanwhile new growth is constantly sprouting on the rootstock and needs pruning off regularly. Here is a picture of the smaller overflow bed and you can see it is in need of pruning again, just had done it four days before taking this picture the other day.


We used two kinds of tape using one kind on some grafts and the other kind on other grafts and we definitely liked one kind over the other. Will get a count of success percentages of each tape once the new sprouting slows down. This area gets a lot of wind and full sun most of the day; One kind of tape had broken down and began to unwind before it was time. Jury rigged some of them with red electrical type tape as the unwinding developed.

Even after planting 80+ apple trees this spring, I still feel like a part timer after reading this.

A lot of hard work, great job and inspiring!

 

[Native Hunter]

Somebody likes their new southern home: