Apples,apples and more apples
- Thread starter Chainsaw
- Start date
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
To some degree they do, but maple and oak are preferred over hickory - here at least. Maple and oak - seedlings or stump sprouts - they'll browse to death if not caged.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Chainsaw -
I'm hoping those areas turn into great deer magnets!! I also planted 4 Chinese chestnut trees in one of those areas 3 years ago, and they're growing well in cages. So between the chestnut trees, the young oaks, hickories, and maples, we ought to have some thicker cover AND more food sources.
A note for Sandbur ................ I'm going to plant rows of Norway spruce along some of the skid trails to create "deer walkways" like you have near your balsam firs there. You and I have talked about balsam / spruce "walkways" before, and how deer seem to like using them like guided trails for the cover they provide. It's worked in other locations for us - so why not plant some new ones?? !! Hopefully they use the spruce for cover as they head for our apple & crab trees. A few ladder stands placed within bow range of those spruce ..........................
I'm hoping those areas turn into great deer magnets!! I also planted 4 Chinese chestnut trees in one of those areas 3 years ago, and they're growing well in cages. So between the chestnut trees, the young oaks, hickories, and maples, we ought to have some thicker cover AND more food sources.
A note for Sandbur ................ I'm going to plant rows of Norway spruce along some of the skid trails to create "deer walkways" like you have near your balsam firs there. You and I have talked about balsam / spruce "walkways" before, and how deer seem to like using them like guided trails for the cover they provide. It's worked in other locations for us - so why not plant some new ones?? !! Hopefully they use the spruce for cover as they head for our apple & crab trees. A few ladder stands placed within bow range of those spruce ..........................
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Deer eat hickory all day long here as if they are in a food plot. Their travel routes are closely linked to the lines of hickory stands on the property which coincidently are flanked by many of the wild apple stands. Some of the hickory trees are huge where the trunk is significantly larger than our outline making even two person ladder stands blend in.
There are only six oaks on this property so it is not an important nut here.
If I had seen articles from Native written about oak tree growth twenty years ago, there probably would have been an oak planting spree here then. I just plain didn't know oaks could be grown to decent producing size so quickly. However back to the hickory, yes they have served us well and the deer eat them like candy.
There are only six oaks on this property so it is not an important nut here.
If I had seen articles from Native written about oak tree growth twenty years ago, there probably would have been an oak planting spree here then. I just plain didn't know oaks could be grown to decent producing size so quickly. However back to the hickory, yes they have served us well and the deer eat them like candy.
Troubles Trees
5 year old buck +
Great input there, thank you Chainsaw! I only do 20 grafts or so per year but could get more aggressive converting my native apples and thornapples to better producing apples and crabs. I lack the quality of scion there and unfortunately until I drop more weed trees in my woods I have no more room to plant yet, but it is in the near future. I have so many native apples I couldn't bring myself to buy more apples when I needed pears and other flavors but if I had foresight then I would have planted a few more just for the scions.Troubles Trees,
I had tried a hand held tool and wasn’t happy the the cuts made. I don’t remember the brand but it was just cheap junk.
Ended up with a Scionon bench grafting tool.
Had cut myself twice the first year grafting with mostly a Victorinox grafting knife and a safety knife. It became obvious that my lack of hand coordination was going to end in some bad cuts even while wearing no-gloves. Chose the Scionon bench grafting tool as it looked very safe and made nice grafting cuts. It worked out perfectly so far cutting Lots of grafts and not cutting fingers.
In addition to the bench toll a tape dispenser also sold by Moser was used.
Grafting Systems-TAU-Tape Applicator - Grafting Systems
GS-TAU-20: Grafting Systems Tape Applicator Unit The Grafting Systems TAU is a more economical tape applicator made from off the shelf parts. It is not part of the modular GBU unit, but is intended to be mounted separately on the bench grafting table. We recommend mounting a TAU as a separate...graftingsystems.com
The tape dispenser made my grafts much tighter than those wrapped the year before without the dispenser. The dispenser spool did not fit on Parafilm brand tape which I had become accustomed to using but a little bit of electrical tape to resize the tape holder spool took care of that easily. I had tried using Buddy Tape which fit the spool and it was a nice tape with lot’s of stretch but with the normal high winds here the Buddy-tape unraveled on some of the grafts.
As always thank you sir for the input bud!
Daron
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Those rows of conifers work best after leaf fall, if they are planted in a deciduous forest.
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sandbur
5 year old buck +
We are in a drought where I live and a buddy commented that wild crabs and apples, and topworks on those natives are doing the best as compared to most purchased apples and rootstocks.
What I call swamp crab makes great rootstock, multi stemmed though it is.
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Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
You are very welcome Daron. The Scionon is definitely overkill for twenty or fifty or even a few hundred grafts. And I was quite happy grafting with just my jackknife had it not been for getting some nasty cuts on a thumb that was already not in the best of shape from a woodworking hobby. It is definitely a worthwhile move though for most of us to changeover apple trees from mostly mediocre to mostly great apple trees. The top half of 1 percent of the best trees are eons ahead of the average tree in any of our woods. Most of us have our own special tree and maybe even one that is in the top half of one percent of all trees like Turning Point is here. And that special tree can of course be used to upgrade many of our poorer and mediocre producing trees. I have not done that but have rather chose to just add many great varieties to my many mediocre varieties. Some that I multiply come from my better trees, some from friends best trees and I also buy trees that look to be likely winners. I'm trying to have a diverse mix of great varieties to cover the inevitable unknown things that can happen to any one particular variety. Having trees to produce our own super excellent scions as you alluded to also makes a lot of sense. Producing larger scions for our grafting and matching them up with compatible larger rootstocks will likely get us to better trees faster than grafting tiny scions onto tiny rootstocks. All it takes is thinking ahead and collecting and growing some great tree varieties producing larger scions to use on our properties at that later date when we have time and/or space to expand.
Sandbur, we were in dry times as well but not quite a drought. No rain was forecast for the next ten days and then last night totally by surprise we were blasted with a heavy rain that tapered down after a while but lasted for ten hours. I can't wait to see the growth in the tree grafts in a few days. The farmers must be ecstatic as the corn in some corn fields had started curling already-very early to be so dry here.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
I’ve never used parafilm but I’ve loved buddy tape. After using stretchy PVC tape for a couple years, I’ve used the same roll since 2017 and still have plenty left. Maybe 300 grafts with it. Mine is 1” wide with perforations at 3”. I use 1 piece per graft if I’m doing well or 2. I don’t graft as much now, maybe 30 this year, so I expect my roll to last until I buy new place to plant fruit trees.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Interesting. I’m satisfied with the Parafilm but also like to try different systems. Is your PVC tape made for grafting or is it regular plumbers tape? And does the tape stay on the graft or does it need to be taped at the end with a sticky tape? Do you need to cut it off eventually or does it just deteriorate like Parafilm?
I prefer the 1 inch wide over the just under half inch size as well. I have not used the perforated tape yet. I can see why edit-
changed to Bio-graft is so popular with some; it really seemed to stretch nicely. We ended up taping most of the ends on the Bio-graft Tape to stop what we thought was unraveling too early because of the almost non-stop winds we were having. The taping the ends worked fine but it did take extra time cutting it off. Thus was our preference for the parafilm. Edit-just noticed, I got the Buddy Tape confused with BioGraft tape! It I was the biograft that unwound in the wind— not the Buddy Tape. Will correct on my original post.
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Troubles Trees
5 year old buck +
I couldn’t agree more! Diversity is the key, a monoculture of any one apple can produce zero soft mass in certain years.
I really need to pick grafting back up, I was just getting the hang of it when I stopped and regret it now. I just didn’t have much to work with until I bought the land next door and then got so busy planting new and caring for those I simply didn’t have time to find scions and graft.
I’ll work on prioritizing that next year because I really have a lot of improvements I can do with grafting apple in particular.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Exactly. You're right. When they become the only significant cover available - from about the last week of October here - cruising bucks will follow them readily. Probably because the does are using them for cover as well, dribbling pee along the way!!
You've noticed the "leaf drop" use with balsam fir & spruce at your place too. We've discussed it several times over a few years. It still holds true here!
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
I can’t remember which PVC tape I used. I used several sold for backyard/garden uses and thin stretchy flagging tape. I was able to tie it or knot it which could be difficult for the thicker tape. It needed cut/slit by August or it would girdle fast growing grafts. Buddy tape I might take off when I transplant.
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Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
A good friend of mine planted around three hundred trees last year to start an orchard for cider making. He did everything by the book except the stones on top of the ground cloth and the screening. Though bought neither were installed prior to last winter. As we all know things aren't always done on time. This spring forty-one trees did not wake up. They were completely girdled from just below ground up to 2 inches high. Another dozen or so were also girdled up to 75 percent around but are still looking good except for the eaten part. We expect those will eventually have problems but we don't know. The important thing is he learned the from the incident and so did I. His orchard is about half stoned and screened around each tree so far now with more being done every day. My nursery was not screened but I lucked out with no winter damage. I am about to purchase 1/4 inch hardware cloth to place around the fence on the outside of my nursery. There are 897 grafted seedlings there so it makes more sense to fence the outside edge versus each tree. While our snow often gets to five foot deep, I'm planning on going with only two foot high with hardware cloth; planning to bury five inches all around the perimeter fence and have 19 inches of hardware cloth above ground. I have not heard of voles girdling trees high. Does this sound like an OK strategy?
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sandbur
5 year old buck +
I don’t know much about voles, but is your set up rabbit proof?
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Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
I believe it is rabbit proof to almost three feet of snow. There are many rabbits in both of our nursery areas and in our planted trees but we have not seen any winter rabbit damage to date with five ft. Fencing. Still I am considering raising the fencing from five feet to eight feet in the nursery just for the winter, more for any deer that might feel brave enough to jump into the enclosure just in case we get a more used to be normal huge amount of snow. Adding two more ten ft. poles would make that doable. Note; maximum tree height is not expected to exceed five ft in most cases.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Thanks for your experience with voles Jeremy. How far if at all do you sink the black pipe into the ground? And judging from my friends trees the presumed to be voles only ate up a couple of inches on each tree and then left them to attack others. The voles appeared to be choosy as to which trees they ate. From what we could tell the Golden Russet was their preferred tree to girdle and the only variety tree we noticed any girdle damage on.
chummer
5 year old buck +
I just push it in as far as I can get it by hand. I think voles just tunnel under the snow and girdle what ever they bump into. I don’t think they ever leave the ground.
