Apples,apples and more apples

[sandbur]

That is interesting H20fwler. Do you find that the characteristic to sometimes bloom on grafts carries over into any other characteristic like early fruiting or heavy apple production? I am presuming that trees that bloom on one year old wood would tend to fruit early in life. On Turning Point it is so far not normal for grafts to bloom even though a few are in my nursery area. On Golden Hornet is it an oddity to graft bloom or is more normal than not? And do you graft with mostly one year old wood(last summers growth)?

I see that Golden Hornet is listed on Orange Pippin as a late hanger with average disease resistance. Do you have cedar apple rust in your area and do you find it susceptible to it? Any other disease issues?

You didn’t ask me the question, but I have no problems with CAR on GH.

One of my two GH bloomed the year it was grafted.


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[H20fwler]

That is interesting H20fwler. Do you find that the characteristic to sometimes bloom on grafts carries over into any other characteristic like early fruiting or heavy apple production? I am presuming that trees that bloom on one year old wood would tend to fruit early in life. On Turning Point it is so far not normal for grafts to bloom even though a few are in my nursery area. On Golden Hornet is it an oddity to graft bloom or is more normal than not? And do you graft with mostly one year old wood(last summers growth)?

I see that Golden Hornet is listed on Orange Pippin as a late hanger with average disease resistance. Do you have cedar apple rust in your area and do you find it susceptible to it? Any other disease issues?

Yes, I have seen a few crab varieties bloom after graft, GH/ DropTine/ Briar Lane.
GH is very consistent doing it and yes all three of those varieties are very early fruiters in life, heavy fruiters and all very late hangers even into March.
I graft with scions one year old or less, new wood.
I haven't had any issues with CAR/FB or any other so far with my GH.

 

[Chainsaw]

You didn’t ask me the question, but I have no problems with CAR on GH.

One of my two GH bloomed the year it was grafted.


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Thanks for chiming in Art. Cummins Website lists Golden Hornet as susceptible to Fireblight (caught that later on in the day). Since you did not mention fire blight I presume that hasn’t happened to your Golden Hornet. Do you ever have fire blight on your area? In our area I don’t think we had for twenty-five of the last thirty years.However about five years ago some of our middle aged trees 60 years old or so showed signs of Fire Blight and one of our older trees guessing a hundred years old died from it over a three year period. Thus Golden Hornet won’t be tried here due to it’s reported susceptibility to fire blight.

I keep my ears open for trees that hold apples at least thru fall, are cold hardy, produce at an early age and are resistant to our two worst apple diseases here that we have seen to date (fire blight and cedar apple rust). There are very, very few named trees that meet all of that list in this area. It is not that we don’t have a good handful of newly discovered trees from our circle of apple followers in this area, but more proven winners are continuously sought.

 

[sandbur]

I see some fireblight, but not a lot.


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[Native Hunter]

Dave, this is the first year that I tried grafting mulberries. I grafted Illinois Everbearing to 2 different red mulberries and have fruit set on both of them.

 

[Chainsaw]

Steve, the Illinois Everbearing Mulberry sounds like a very versatile tree. Listed as zone 4 to 8 and disease resistant, fast growing and fruits all summer. I'll plan on ordering a couple. Thanks for posting this.

 

[Native Hunter]

Steve, the Illinois Everbearing Mulberry sounds like a very versatile tree. Listed as zone 4 to 8 and disease resistant, fast growing and fruits all summer. I'll plan on ordering a couple. Thanks for posting this.

Dave, it is an incredible tree. Don't cut off the lower limbs as you prune it so that they will stay close to the ground. That makes it easy to pick the mulberries. Get a big spot, because they really spread out. My tree is 30 feet high and 50 feet wide. Unlike most mulberries, it bears for weeks and weeks, and every limb will be loaded with berries.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Yes, I have seen a few crab varieties bloom after graft, GH/ DropTine/ Briar Lane.
GH is very consistent doing it and yes all three of those varieties are very early fruiters in life, heavy fruiters and all very late hangers even into March.
I graft with scions one year old or less, new wood.
I haven't had any issues with CAR/FB or any other so far with my GH.

Good to know, H20. We're having a small bit of logging being done now, so I may just pick up a GH or 2 and stick them in the newly cleared areas. I thought we'd be all out of open space for more apples and crabs - and other good habitat trees - but we have a couple acres of newly opened space. I'll be buying grafted trees from a proven vendor ........... someone who has GH on either Antonovka or P-18 preferably ............ but I'd go for MM-111 too - which does well at our camp.

Thanks for the info.

 

[chummer]

That is interesting H20fwler. Do you find that the characteristic to sometimes bloom on grafts carries over into any other characteristic like early fruiting or heavy apple production? I am presuming that trees that bloom on one year old wood would tend to fruit early in life. On Turning Point it is so far not normal for grafts to bloom even though a few are in my nursery area. On Golden Hornet is it an oddity to graft bloom or is more normal than not? And do you graft with mostly one year old wood(last summers growth)?

I see that Golden Hornet is listed on Orange Pippin as a late hanger with average disease resistance. Do you have cedar apple rust in your area and do you find it susceptible to it? Any other disease issues?

I have two GH and they are turning into great trees. They have an insanely long bloom time, they just come in waves. They are already loaded with apples at 4th leaf. The are FB resistant for me and the leaves stay clean all year. They drop all winter but are still firm when I close up. A few were still on this spring. I can get you some scion next year.

 

[H20fwler]

Good to know, H20. We're having a small bit of logging being done now, so I may just pick up a GH or 2 and stick them in the newly cleared areas. I thought we'd be all out of open space for more apples and crabs - and other good habitat trees - but we have a couple acres of newly opened space. I'll be buying grafted trees from a proven vendor ........... someone who has GH on either Antonovka or P-18 preferably ............ but I'd go for MM-111 too - which does well at our camp.

Thanks for the info.

I really like the GH for a few of the reasons I listed. I guess the biggest besides holding fruit late into the winter is just their look. I think they are about one of the prettiest crabs I’ve ever seen in fall packed with nickel sized little orange apples.
My oldest one is on G222 because it was the only thing I could find it on at the time. I’ve grafted scions from it to M111 the last couple years and planted them in my shrub strips.

Here are a couple in my nursery bed right now that I grafted this spring for a friend of mine to plant in his wildlife orchard.
You can see all the old blossoms on the one in foreground, the one behind it is just breaking blossom.

 

[Chainsaw]

I have two GH and they are turning into great trees. They have an insanely long bloom time, they just come in waves. They are already loaded with apples at 4th leaf. The are FB resistant for me and the leaves stay clean all year. They drop all winter but are still firm when I close up. A few were still on this spring. I can get you some scion next year.

Thanks Jeremy, using your GH scions will be great. I know you have some fire blight present some years as do I so if your GH works at your place then let's give them a try here. It sometimes appears that there are different versions of some named varieties. I seem to remember GH is one of those trees that some people had fire blight issues while others did not even though fire blight was in their area. It is possible that some trees have different versions out there.

H20fwler, your grafted GH are looking excellent. They are way ahead of my grafts here. Some of ours are still waking up with more new ones showing life each day. Did you use a multi budded scion or a single one? While your zone 6a would be way ahead of mine (likely zone 4) in growth, it is surprising that it is that much ahead. Will take some pictures tomorrow to post; they are doing okay I think but are far behind yours.

 

[H20fwler]

Thanks Jeremy, using your GH scions will be great. I know you have some fire blight present some years as do I so if your GH works at your place then let's give them a try here. It sometimes appears that there are different versions of some named varieties. I seem to remember GH is one of those trees that some people had fire blight issues while others did not even though fire blight was in their area. It is possible that some trees have different versions out there.

H20fwler, your grafted GH are looking excellent. They are way ahead of my grafts here. Some of ours are still waking up with more new ones showing life each day. Did you use a multi budded scion or a single one? While your zone 6a would be way ahead of mine (likely zone 4) in growth, it is surprising that it is that much ahead. Will take some pictures tomorrow to post; they are doing okay I think but are far behind yours.

I think you may be onto something with there maybe being different strains of GH that could be more resistant to FB.
I know that there is FB in my area, I have had small strikes on a couple of apple trees and at least one pear in the last five or six years.

I usually use scions with multiple buds if at all possible then start rubbing off the lower ones as graft starts to leaf out and thrive good to begin it’s training.

It has been a very odd year here for grafts waking up for me also, I think maybe due to the crazy temp swings? I have some grafts that have literally started branching already and others still budding out.

 

[homerj1]

Different strains of fireblight likely impact trees differently. Even the same variety of apple in different locations.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

On FB - I've had 2 crabapples and 1 Redspire pear on my home property. FB only hit the pear tree. From all I've read and seen, pears are more susceptible to FB, generally. Not saying FB doesn't hit apples and crabs - it does. I've just witnessed more FB on a variety of pear trees, more so than apples. YMMV.

If I see FB on any of the 3 pears trees at camp ............... chainsaw time to avoid spread to our apples and crabs. Into the burn pile.

 

[H20fwler]

Thanks for chiming in Art. Cummins Website lists Golden Hornet as susceptible to Fireblight (caught that later on in the day). Since you did not mention fire blight I presume that hasn’t happened to your Golden Hornet. Do you ever have fire blight on your area? In our area I don’t think we had for twenty-five of the last thirty years.However about five years ago some of our middle aged trees 60 years old or so showed signs of Fire Blight and one of our older trees guessing a hundred years old died from it over a three year period. Thus Golden Hornet won’t be tried here due to it’s reported susceptibility to fire blight.

I keep my ears open for trees that hold apples at least thru fall, are cold hardy, produce at an early age and are resistant to our two worst apple diseases here that we have seen to date (fire blight and cedar apple rust). There are very, very few named trees that meet all of that list in this area. It is not that we don’t have a good handful of newly discovered trees from our circle of apple followers in this area, but more proven winners are continuously sought.

A few years ago CrazyEd started a cool thread on finding late hangers and others have also posted some good finds over the years....all of that got me looking locally when I was out and about.

One of my neighbors down the block from me has a big old crab in his front yard, it's about 200 yards from my front porch. I have lived at current house for nineteen years and every year this tree is flat out loaded with crabapples that are around one inch or bigger.
Besides bearing good every year I haven’t ever noticed any disease on this tree and it drops all winter long, there are always bunnies under this tree in winter i've seen from a few to ten at a time under it...every bunny in the neighborhood comes to feed on ground around it along with all kinds of birds. I got to thinking if rabbits eat them deer would too and it could make a decent wildlife tree along with a great pollinator.

These pics were taken of it in Feburay a few years ago;

So I started grafting it to M111, it has been like GH and DropTine sometimes blossoming that very first spring. I have moved some of them out to the orchards and to the shrub strips.

Took these pics yesterday of second leaf trees;

I'll pinch the fruit off them this year so they keep growing wood. I have been very happy with the results so far.

I call it Briar Lane because that is the street the parent tree is on. Didn't know if Ryan at BH might be interested in trying any or not? I'll offer some scions in the exchange next spring for anyone wanting to try it...also think it would be a good tree to cross with others for the seed planting guys because it has some very good traits...early fruiter/heavy fruiter/consistent fruiter/good DR and slow drop all winter long.

 

[Chainsaw]

H2O, that looks like an excellent candidate for a possible great deer tree. It definitely meets the criteria for your zone and that in itself is huge. Who wouldn't want a tree that produces annually like that, fruits early, has not been affected by diseases and drops apples slowly. If it also works in colder zones that would be a great bonus. It definitely looks like one possibly quite special for us habitat guys. Definitely send the pictures to Ryan. I'm certain he would want to test 'Briar lane" as a possible great addition to his line of trees. And being Red maybe Sandbur would be game to test it out in his cold weather zone. We are very cold here and I would be thrilled to give it a try and we also have an amount of extreme Cedar Apple Rust spores to throw at it , Sandbur is a real test for extreme cold and Chummer is another one that experiences extreme weather conditions.

All of us watching for new great deer apple trees that may be growing literally on our own blocks can make a huge difference by adding one at a time a great tree to the deer world.

 

[sandbur]

A few years ago CrazyEd started a cool thread on finding late hangers and others have also posted some good finds over the years....all of that got me looking locally when I was out and about.

One of my neighbors down the block from me has a big old crab in his front yard, it's about 200 yards from my front porch. I have lived at current house for nineteen years and every year this tree is flat out loaded with crabapples that are around one inch or bigger.
Besides bearing good every year I haven’t ever noticed any disease on this tree and it drops all winter long, there are always bunnies under this tree in winter i've seen from a few to ten at a time under it...every bunny in the neighborhood comes to feed on ground around it along with all kinds of birds. I got to thinking if rabbits eat them deer would too and it could make a decent wildlife tree along with a great pollinator.

These pics were taken of it in Feburay a few years ago;

So I started grafting it to M111, it has been like GH and DropTine sometimes blossoming that very first spring. I have moved some of them out to the orchards and to the shrub strips.

Took these pics yesterday of second leaf trees;

I'll pinch the fruit off them this year so they keep growing wood. I have been very happy with the results so far.

I call it Briar Lane because that is the street the parent tree is on. Didn't know if Ryan at BH might be interested in trying any or not? I'll offer some scions in the exchange next spring for anyone wanting to try it...also think it would be a good tree to cross with others for the seed planting guys because it has some very good traits...early fruiter/heavy fruiter/consistent fruiter/good DR and slow drop all winter long.

The apple shape and size looks like the real dolgo.

My dolgos(grafted) have fruit nearly every year and are disease free.

Late frost years can cause a resting year.


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[H20fwler]

The apple shape and size looks like the real dolgo.

My dolgos(grafted) have fruit nearly every year and are disease free.

Late frost years can cause a resting year.


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Interesting.
Do real Dolgo hold through winter with a slow drop?
After Chainsaw made the red flesh comment on it I really got to thinking about it…is the red flesh look in winter from multiple freezing thawing or is it a true red flesh?
I will post fruit pics from it in this thread in fall so we can see, because I have no idea. I sure hope it is! I also want to do a taste test on the fresh fruit, I know the local wildlife sure likes them.
Anyone with any interest in this one I will be able to collect scions this winter. The parent tree is still pushing some new growth and I will be able to also get some from the young trees I have out.

 

[homerj1]

A few years ago CrazyEd started a cool thread on finding late hangers and others have also posted some good finds over the years....all of that got me looking locally when I was out and about.

One of my neighbors down the block from me has a big old crab in his front yard, it's about 200 yards from my front porch. I have lived at current house for nineteen years and every year this tree is flat out loaded with crabapples that are around one inch or bigger.
Besides bearing good every year I haven’t ever noticed any disease on this tree and it drops all winter long, there are always bunnies under this tree in winter i've seen from a few to ten at a time under it...every bunny in the neighborhood comes to feed on ground around it along with all kinds of birds. I got to thinking if rabbits eat them deer would too and it could make a decent wildlife tree along with a great pollinator.

These pics were taken of it in Feburay a few years ago;

So I started grafting it to M111, it has been like GH and DropTine sometimes blossoming that very first spring. I have moved some of them out to the orchards and to the shrub strips.

Took these pics yesterday of second leaf trees;

I'll pinch the fruit off them this year so they keep growing wood. I have been very happy with the results so far.

I call it Briar Lane because that is the street the parent tree is on. Didn't know if Ryan at BH might be interested in trying any or not? I'll offer some scions in the exchange next spring for anyone wanting to try it...also think it would be a good tree to cross with others for the seed planting guys because it has some very good traits...early fruiter/heavy fruiter/consistent fruiter/good DR and slow drop all winter long.

Fruit size, shape, and tenacity looks like Callaway crab to me.

 

[sandbur]

Interesting.
Do real Dolgo hold through winter with a slow drop?
After Chainsaw made the red flesh comment on it I really got to thinking about it…is the red flesh look in winter from multiple freezing thawing or is it a true red flesh?
I will post fruit pics from it in this thread in fall so we can see, because I have no idea. I sure hope it is! I also want to do a taste test on the fresh fruit, I know the local wildlife sure likes them.
Anyone with any interest in this one I will be able to collect scions this winter. The parent tree is still pushing some new growth and I will be able to also get some from the young trees I have out.

My grafted dolgo drop most of their fruit in September, but some of the fruit hangs on in winter.


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