Any places to find non-dwarf apple trees?

[bgusty]

I’m in MN, and seems like every nursery I’ve been to only sells apples on dwarf or semi dwarf root stock.

My last house in the suburbs had a 40 year old apple tree that was a good 50 feet tall, and I see a few others like that now in farm country.

Are there any places still selling trees like that? Are they any good for wildlife/ food plots? Or do they just not grow as fast and produce as much as these semi dwarf varieties?


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[Tree Spud]

You might want to try Stark Bros, I have purchased from them last couple of years. They have semi-dwarf size apple trees ... https://www.starkbros.com/

 

[Mortenson]

For the most part, you'll see the habitat guys mostly choosing between M.111 and B.118 for their wildlife trees. These are semi dwarf but still 80+% of standard, a good compromise of many factors, but probably not 40 footers. Other common ones that'll be large are P.18 or Antonovka. I think they're advertised as being standard sized.

 

[Mortenson]

St. Lawrence sells on Antonovka but many of us have learned they start out slow and small.

 

[H20fwler]

I have used all of these;


Cummins is a good source for larger size wildlife apple trees; https://shop.cumminsnursery.com/shop/apple-trees
Also,

Widlife Group; https://www.wildlifegroup.com/shop-for-apple-trees/

Northern Whitetail Crabs; https://www.northernwhitetailcrabs.com/whitetail-tree-selections

I have also had luck with TSC trees just check the tags.

My last two orders with Stark the trees did not do well.

 

[woodduck]

Blue Hill still had some named crab varieties and some apple varieties left. His trees are all standard rootstocks

St. Lawrence trees will all be on standard root too. I believe his trees go on sale in December

 

[Chainsaw]

Bgusty there are some great resources that respond on this forum as you know and it is especially so in the fruit tree category. I am not a fruit tree guru but others on this category are and they teaching the rest of us through their threads Quickly. First though I can answer your question on the dwarf stock; You are on the right track there. Dwarf trees are not for us. We need larger trees close to or at standard (Full size). Since we do not pick our apples so much we don’t need the trees to be short.

Secondly most of the thousand “best” apple trees don’t cut it for us either. There are only a handful of orchard trees that come anywhere near meeting our needs for wildlife. Liberty, Freedom and Enterprise are three of the known better ones. I have all three but my first Freedom was just planted this past year. There are others. What makes our needs so different is that we as wildlife managers do not regularly spray our trees so we need trees that are truly disease resistant. Add to that that you live in a cold climate as do I, there are even less orchard trees that have shown to survive our winters and produce lots of apples.

My suggestion is to read as many of the apple tree threads on here as you have time to. They will save you a lot of money, a lot of wasted effort and will ensure that you end up with trees that meet your needs.

 

[sandbur]

Most local nurseries in Minnesota carry trees from Bailey’s. I am not talking about the big box stores.

Trees from the local nurseries work fine for me as long as they are not dwarf trees. Perhaps metro nurseries carry more dwarf trees. Check the outstate nurseries. I have bought from Landsburg in Brainerd and from Huls in Avon. Also from St Cloud.


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[Apple Junkie]

Local nurseries are a great place to start looking, but my go-to place to find the right variety/rootstock combinations is Cummins Nursery.

I know they sell quality trees, but what I really like is that they tell me exactly what variety I am buying, and, what rootstock I am getting... including the full size (P.18) and close to full size (M.111 & B.118) rootstocks. Typically you can find most of the popular wildlife varieties if you buy before March.

They don't have their 2021 inventory listed yet, but you can check it out here when they do; https://shop.cumminsnursery.com/shop/apple-trees. I'm glad you got to bug too... and not the covid kind!

 

[bgusty]

For the most part, you'll see the habitat guys mostly choosing between M.111 and B.118 for their wildlife trees. These are semi dwarf but still 80+% of standard, a good compromise of many factors, but probably not 40 footers. Other common ones that'll be large are P.18 or Antonovka. I think they're advertised as being standard sized.

Good to know. I do know some varieties have been on B118. Didn’t know they were 80% the size of standard.


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[bgusty]

I have used all of these;


Cummins is a good source for larger size wildlife apple trees; https://shop.cumminsnursery.com/shop/apple-trees
Also,

Widlife Group; https://www.wildlifegroup.com/shop-for-apple-trees/

Northern Whitetail Crabs; https://www.northernwhitetailcrabs.com/whitetail-tree-selections

I have also had luck with TSC trees just check the tags.

My last two orders with Stark the trees did not do well.

I’ve seen northern whitetail crab mentioned a few times. I’ll have to check them out. Thanks!


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[Mortenson]

I've seen different charts, but most are similar. Most of mine are still 20% of standard, so not speaking from experience.

 

[sandbur]

I’m in MN, and seems like every nursery I’ve been to only sells apples on dwarf or semi dwarf root stock.

My last house in the suburbs had a 40 year old apple tree that was a good 50 feet tall, and I see a few others like that now in farm country.

Are there any places still selling trees like that? Are they any good for wildlife/ food plots? Or do they just not grow as fast and produce as much as these semi dwarf varieties?


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I feel soils and sun exposure affect the form a tree grows into.

Wild apples in a prairie or exposed area around my area tend to be 20-25 feet tall and have a shrub form. They feed wildlife just fine. These are on light to medium soils.

In farm yards where there are food heavy soils, I have seen those tall trees, some with trunks almost two feet thick. Some of our forests where we plant trees for deer don’t have these soils.


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[SmallChunk]

PM me, I´ll have some trees on B.118 available this fall/next spring and am north of the cities about an hour.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I have MM-111, B-118, Antonovka, and P-18 rootstocks on our trees at camp. As someone above said, Antonovka starts slowly, the first 2 or 3 years they seem to hardly move. But then they kick in and grow REALLY well. Antonovka roots are not fibrous like other rootstocks are - they look more like carrots - but don't let that fool you. The first couple years they are establishing their root systems, and once they take off - they grow! Antonovka will grow a full-sized tree, about 25 to 35 feet tall - and possibly taller.

MM-111 is supposed to be the best rootstock for heavier clayish soils, according to Penn State's head of their fruit tree program. We have clayish loam soil at camp & MM-111 is doing just fine.

B-118 rootstock also grows well for us, but tends to lean a bit for us in our soil. Some of they guys on here with sandier soil say B-118 is the one for them. It all depends on what type of soil you have.

We just planted a couple trees on P-18 in the last year or 2 - so too early to tell how they'll do for us. P-18 is a rootstock to grow a standard sized tree over 25 feet tall - possibly to 35 feet. We need big woody trees because we have bears - so they'll hopefully survive bear climbing attempts.

Mortenson's chart 3 posts above this one is a good guide.

Edit: I bought the camp's trees from Cummins, SLN, and ACN. I have a couple ordered from Blue Hill for spring 2021.