Alder shearing/ usda program

[Wind Gypsy]

Interesting stuff, had no idea there was that opportunity to cost share.

I love how the regen looks. I’ve got a little spot of less than an acre that is mature alders bordering where I want to plant a bunch of ROD. I think I’m going to chainsaw a bunch of the alders and use the tops to protect ROD plantings and have nice cover from alder regen screening off the ROD and foodplot just beyond it.

 

[ruskbucks]

Interesting stuff, had no idea there was that opportunity to cost share.

I love how the regen looks. I’ve got a little spot of less than an acre that is mature alders bordering where I want to plant a bunch of ROD. I think I’m going to chainsaw a bunch of the alders and use the tops to protect ROD plantings and have nice cover from alder regen screening off the ROD and foodplot just beyond it.
[/QUOTE] The funding in WI is only available for around 15 counties in the most northern parts.
It is crazy how fast this stuff regenerates. I had a food plot on the side of a hill I stopped planting. There wasn't even tags growing where I stopped planting. They grew and made a wall about 20ft wide that totally blocks of the top of the hill where I still plant. I plan to do alot of red osier cuttings in spots after the mulching. I hope they can compete with the fast growth of the alder. Otherwise I'll have to just put them on the edge.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I have about 5 acre as of tag alder areas. Pretty low area, that borders a hillside to my food plots. Is there benefit to deer to cut these tag alders down? Or just to upland birds? It’s not that I don’t care about upland birds, but I don’t hunt them. Also, the bordering neighbors land has about 10 more acres bordering mine, which I plan on buying, when he is ready to sell. Just wondering if I should cut an acre and I should plant some ROD in that acre. Most of the alders I have are dead 15 feet up, and useless to nature.

 

[ruskbucks]

I have about 5 acre as of tag alder areas. Pretty low area, that borders a hillside to my food plots. Is there benefit to deer to cut these tag alders down? Or just to upland birds? It’s not that I don’t care about upland birds, but I don’t hunt them. Also, the bordering neighbors land has about 10 more acres bordering mine, which I plan on buying, when he is ready to sell. Just wondering if I should cut an acre and I should plant some ROD in that acre. Most of the alders I have are dead 15 feet up, and useless to nature.

I would say yes it will help the deer also, especially if you need cover. My forester told me to treat tag alder just like you would a forest. It gets old, unhealthy, and almost useless for wildlife. Just like a clearcut of aspen, it will make the stand healthy again and be beneficial for a variety of wildlife. The deer use my mature tags on the higher ground alot. They also have trails thru the lower ground strips that they like to use to stay hidden rather than in the open quack grass. I've only witnessed what it looks like in small areas after I cut some spots that had quack grass next to the tags. It was really impressive. The deer have a heavy trail right thru it the 3rd year after cutting. I would say give it a try in a sample area. I don't think you have anything to loose. Your alders sound like mine. They are over mature 15ft tall and most are dying. The area is getting thinner every year and I think they will start using them less. My 7 year old aspen clear cuts are being used big time by the deer and they are really thick. I' hope the deer use the alder just like the aspen even thou it won't provide any browse.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I would say yes it will help the deer also, especially if you need cover. My forester told me to treat tag alder just like you would a forest. It gets old, unhealthy, and almost useless for wildlife. Just like a clearcut of aspen, it will make the stand healthy again and be beneficial for a variety of wildlife. The deer use my mature tags on the higher ground alot. They also have trails thru the lower ground strips that they like to use to stay hidden rather than in the open quack grass. I've only witnessed what it looks like in small areas after I cut some spots that had quack grass next to the tags. It was really impressive. The deer have a heavy trail right thru it the 3rd year after cutting. I would say give it a try in a sample area. I don't think you have anything to loose. Your alders sound like mine. They are over mature 15ft tall and most are dying. The area is getting thinner every year and I think they will start using them less. My 7 year old aspen clear cuts are being used big time by the deer and they are really thick. I' hope the deer use the alder just like the aspen even thou it won't provide any browse.

I had asked about this last year, I was afraid if I cut the alder down to the ground, nothing would grow in its place. My plan was to get a bunch of ROD established in other areas, then cut back an acre of the alder then fill that area with ROD cuttings. I failed last year to get the ROD established. But maybe I will cut back a half acre anyhow and just let it go and see what happens in it without planting anything.

After you cut the tag alder, should it be removed? Or can it just be dropped, and left for more ground cover?

 

[Maddog66]

I have 2 friends doing this in WI. But I think it’s through a Woodcock preservation org. If I remember right, they were getting around $400 per acre?

FYI, they started out with a forestry mulcher a few years ago, but now just drive them down with a small dozer when it’s frozen solid. I guess the dozer method is much faster($) and works just as well.

 

[ruskbucks]

I had asked about this last year, I was afraid if I cut the alder down to the ground, nothing would grow in its place. My plan was to get a bunch of ROD established in other areas, then cut back an acre of the alder then fill that area with ROD cuttings. I failed last year to get the ROD established. But maybe I will cut back a half acre anyhow and just let it go and see what happens in it without planting anything.

After you cut the tag alder, should it be removed? Or can it just be dropped, and left for more ground cover?

Sounds good. I think it is pretty much a guarantee it will grow back from stump sprouts. You probably have what ever that grass/ maybe sage in your area along with the alder. What I think I noticed is if you can cut that also sunlight will reach the floor and it will sprout from seeds and from the roots. I have always just dropped it and left it there. Alder seems to rot fast especially in low areas.

 

[ruskbucks]

I have 2 friends doing this in WI. But I think it’s through a Woodcock preservation org. If I remember right, they were getting around $400 per acre?

FYI, they started out with a forestry mulcher a few years ago, but now just drive them down with a small dozer when it’s frozen solid. I guess the dozer method is much faster($) and works just as well.

It seems that roughed grouse and woodcock society have combined and are working together. The $400 a acre was what I was told a few years ago. I was told it would be a pretty much a wash cause that would be the cost of a mulcher per acre. He said there could be some money left that could used to cut trails or a field edge. That is interesting with the dozer. I would think that it would damage the root systems. Maybe the roots are so frozen that they are protected by the frost. How did your friend like the results?

 

[SD51555]

I have always just dropped it and left it there. Alder seems to rot fast especially in low areas.

I've always left mine lay too. In 3 years, it's laying flat to the ground, and in 5 you'll never know it was there. I wish I had a whole pile of it I could build a hugel mound out of. Seems like it'd be a really fast way to build a spongy home for soil critters.

 

[Maddog66]

I was also skeptical when I heard about the dozer method, but I guess it’s working out great.

I believe the mulcher left vertical spear points, and the dozer snaps them off and shatters the stumps, which I guess results in possibly better regrowth than cleaner cuts.

I’ve seen a couple of the areas they did a few years ago. It’s ungodly thick and bright green compared to older tags nearby. Looks more ‘alive’.

If I had enough tags to do it, it would be done already. Very impressive and “easy” improvement.

 

[ruskbucks]

I've always left mine lay too. In 3 years, it's laying flat to the ground, and in 5 you'll never know it was there. I wish I had a whole pile of it I could build a hugel mound out of. Seems like it'd be a really fast way to build a spongy home for soil critters.

If you cut yours with just a chainsaw have you noticed it really coming in thick all over or mostly just stump sprouts? When I cut it with my brush hog it came back super thick. Stems sprouted up every 1-2 feet. I hinged a bunch to try to thicken it up and it grew well from the stump sprouts but I didn't notice a whole lot from around them. This was more like a selective cut thou. I only cut maybe 1 out of 5 clumps.

 

[SD51555]

If you cut yours with just a chainsaw have you noticed it really coming in thick all over or mostly just stump sprouts? When I cut it with my brush hog it came back super thick. Stems sprouted up every 1-2 feet. I hinged a bunch to try to thicken it up and it grew well from the stump sprouts but I didn't notice a whole lot from around them. This was more like a selective cut thou. I only cut maybe 1 out of 5 clumps.

I cut all stems with a saw. Never really saw any new sprouts up from the ground, just a bunch of suckers off each cut. Where I have it, it's mixed with ash, balsam poplar, birch, and bur oak. That balsam poplar has a habit of flying up from the roots all over the place. i've got to go back again and snap all those off this summer.

 

[Maddog66]

What I’d do as a test, given the option, would be to pick 2 spots and connect them with a hand cut trail through my tags. I’d lay the cuttings off to the side and creat a 15-20’ wide tunnel through them. Then watch the regen and deer use on it. Running N and S, if possible.

Edit: that path would need to be wider, to more I think. More like 30’ minimum. Otherwise I think the tags on either side would fill it in quickly. I’d want it wide enough that they “reach” from each side and get fresh regeneration down the center.

 

[ruskbucks]

Little update on meeting with ruffed grouse society representative last week. It went really good. He said the habitat looked ideal for the type of project they are promoting. He is going to be drawing up a plan. After a bunch of paperwork. I have to have the alder cut per plan.Current rate is $480 acre.After cutting they will come back to inspect. Then they will cut a check.There is some extra funding for gold wing warblers. The program currently is running at about 75 percent approval. The property is rated on a number of factors such as size,location, and benefit to wildlife. The higher the score the better chance of getting approved. They will leave some mature alder to promote different age groups. They like to have 10- 15 larger trees per acre in the alders. Both upland and lowland alder areas will be cut this winter.

 

[ruskbucks]

Update on my alder shearing project. They have 2 skidsteers coming tomorrow to start mowing 11 acres. The ground has a decent amount of frost already and about 90 percent is on fairly good ground. The other 10 percent they will have to be careful. I was just up there getting rid of surprise buckthorn before they mowed. I also flagged some wild apple, oak, and hazelnuts to be saved along with some dangerous objects. The guy told me he has a 100 acres of alder to mow and mine was the only one that wasn't in a swamp, so I guess the lowland alder is also available for the funding also. Not sue when ill get up there again, but will post some before and after pics.

 

[Brian662]

Excited to see the results of this project. The best properties, IMO, are managed for all species from small game to big game.

 

[ruskbucks]

The alder mowing was completed. I haven't been up there to take pictures yet, but the habitat contractor sent some pictures. It's crazy how different it looks. He said it will really regenerate fast being on a south facing ridge. It will be really cool to see the yearly results. I hope it does good, I would like to do another in 5 years in the lowland areas.

 

[Brian662]

Those are some awesome machines. Looks like you have a good operator there!

 

[ruskbucks]

Those are some awesome machines. Looks like you have a good operator there!

They are. I'm a heavy equipment operator. We got a demo thru Catapilar at work. My boss let me haul it up to my land and use it for the weekend. It was very satisfying running that machine to clear out for my food plots. I've operated alot of different equipment over the years that was one of my favorites to run.

 

[Tree Spud]

The alder mowing was completed. I haven't been up there to take pictures yet, but the habitat contractor sent some pictures. It's crazy how different it looks. He said it will really regenerate fast being on a south facing ridge. It will be really cool to see the yearly results. I hope it does good, I would like to do another in 5 years in the lowland areas.

This looks like a great project. Planning on doing some select cuts patches this winter when things are frozen.