2014 MN Doe-Tag-Party?

Will you apply for, and burn, your doe tag if selected?

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
Reagan said:
I have never hunted a party tag state so take my opinion for at it is worth. But it seems to me that party tags are a way to maximize the kill which is something your state does not need.
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Maximize the kill? We are very happy not to have 5 deer limits and early antlerless seasons. It certainly ups the kill, makes the hunt more efficient, but we have a doe tag lottery to protect the herd.


Reagan said:
In Ohio, you can have 1,2,3 or more tags depending on where you are. Let's say three hunters go out with two tags each. One hunter fills both tags and he is finished. Hunter #2 and 3 kill one deer each and keep hunting. Out of the two hunters that have tags left, only two people are in the field trying to fill them. They may or may not be successful.

In a party tag state, all three hunters can continue on and try to fill the remaining two tags. It seems to me that more hunters trying to fill the remaining two tags will be more likely to succeed than just two hunters. It is a simplified scenario but it leads me to believe that more hunters that can continue to hunt even when their own tags are filled leads to more dead deer.
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Yep. And that is a reason to keep party hunting around, we need more dead deer in some areas. In other areas where the herd needs to rebound no does get shot.

Reagan said:
Another simplified scenario is 10 hunters who have one tag each. Three of these hunters kill their deer every year. Three other hunters almost never kill a deer. The remaining four hunters kill a deer some years and don't some years. So in any average year, the group may kill 4-7 deer out of ten hunters. Party tags increase the likelihood that 10 deer are killed by the group every year because some guys can now kill more than one.
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VERY good example! With party hunting we continue to have 10 hunters, good hunters and poor hunters, but 10 hunters. Get rid of party tagging and the poor hunters might quit hunting. Are the hunters or the deer more important? I don't know...


Reagan said:
I don't see how this is good for a state that has problems with extremely low deer numbers. The only reason that I can see to keep this system is tradition. But a lot of traditions will not survive if there is not a huntable population of deer. From what I have read on here and the dark side, your herd is a complicated problem that will take many solutions to fix. Eliminating party tags won't fix it, but it seems to me that it would result in less dead deer in any given year. It is a step in the right direction.

Am I wrong?
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Hunter success rates are built into our regulations each year. The DNR wants X amount of deer killed. If one regulation is changed to limit the kill another regulations will be loosened to raise the kill. Get rid of party hunting and then suddenly have a 5 deer limit everywhere. Changing the deer density goals is the only thing that ultimately matters about how many deer are killed in a given year. Everything else is just fighting over how the deer should be killed, not how many.
 
Reagan said:
I have never hunted a party tag state so take my opinion for at it is worth. But it seems to me that party tags are a way to maximize the kill which is something your state does not need.

In Ohio, you can have 1,2,3 or more tags depending on where you are. Let's say three hunters go out with two tags each. One hunter fills both tags and he is finished. Hunter #2 and 3 kill one deer each and keep hunting. Out of the two hunters that have tags left, only two people are in the field trying to fill them. They may or may not be successful.

In a party tag state, all three hunters can continue on and try to fill the remaining two tags. It seems to me that more hunters trying to fill the remaining two tags will be more likely to succeed than just two hunters. It is a simplified scenario but it leads me to believe that more hunters that can continue to hunt even when their own tags are filled leads to more dead deer.

Another simplified scenario is 10 hunters who have one tag each. Three of these hunters kill their deer every year. Three other hunters almost never kill a deer. The remaining four hunters kill a deer some years and don't some years. So in any average year, the group may kill 4-7 deer out of ten hunters. Party tags increase the likelihood that 10 deer are killed by the group every year because some guys can now kill more than one.


I don't see how this is good for a state that has problems with extremely low deer numbers. The only reason that I can see to keep this system is tradition. But a lot of traditions will not survive if there is not a huntable population of deer. From what I have read on here and the dark side, your herd is a complicated problem that will take many solutions to fix. Eliminating party tags won't fix it, but it seems to me that it would result in less dead deer in any given year. It is a step in the right direction.

Am I wrong?
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Reagan,

If you could please email this post to:

Drieslein Rob A <editor@outdoornews.com>

The hunters of MN would appreciate it. The pub is our #1 outdoors rag in the state and read by many. Please send your post in verbatim.

Thank you-
 
DSD said:
Yep. And that is a reason to keep party hunting around, we need more dead deer in some areas. In other areas where the herd needs to rebound no does get shot.
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I think you are correct that there are hot and cold spots, but party hunting makes the cold spots colder. Hot spots need new tools, but party hunting needs to go bye bye.

Areas of the state that are dead for deer this fall have aggressive doe harvest and party hunters filling every tag as a huge part of the problem. Areas that still hold deer do so because they can not be hunted, or the guys hunting them did not buy and fill every tag they could.
 
I like the party hunting rule and it is a big part of the tradition of the northern hunts in Minnesota.

The guys I hunt with up in zone 1, party hunt. I believe they have killed one deer for another member of the party in the last 15 years. The rule is not abused by these guys. It simply gives them the ability to make a drive or sit in a stand and shoot a true trophy if it ever appears. Usually the guy that has his tag filled sleeps in, does the dishes, does some chores and might sit on stand for a few hours. Or he might walk thru a 40 or 80 acre parcel to stir the deer around.

I have to admit that others abuse it. They are probably not legally party hunting in many cases and another rule might not make a difference.

It was proposed by the game wardens that carrying another persons license in your pocket is against the law. I am not sure if that passed or not.
 
In Wisconsin group tagging is legally allowed when there are "two or more hunters who are hunting together within
sight or voice contact at all times. Temporary loss of voice or visual contact for a reasonable
time due to terrain or weather conditions is acceptable."

Does MN have similar restriction or can group tagging be legally done when the hunters are not near each other?

I'm asking what is legal not what is practiced, because even in Wisconsin people don't always follow the rules. I think we have these rules to basically make deer drives legal. If you didn't have these rules, standers couldn't shoot deer for the pushers.
 
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Party Hunting
• A "party" is defined as any group of two or more licensed deer hunters who are all afield; hunting together at the same time; AND all using firearms (including muzzleloaders) or all using archery.
• A mixed group of firearms and archery hunters is considered two separate parties.
• Crossbow hunters may not party hunt with firearms or archery hunters.
• Crossbow hunters may party hunt with archery hunters if they possess an archery license with a crossbow disability or are age 60 or over and hunting with a crossbow.
• Any member of a party meeting this definition may kill a deer for any other member of the party who has an unused tag valid for that deer.
• Some restrictions apply to 300 series deer areas. See page 74.

• Party members MAY NOT kill an antlerless deer in a lottery deer area for: 1) a member of the party who is a resident under age 18; or 2) a disabled person authorized to take antlerless deer under a permit to shoot from a motor vehicle.
 
Sounds like Minnesota is a lot more liberal in their Party Hunting laws than Wisconsin.
 
I don't know how Minnesota figures out how many doe tags but in Wisconsin, part of the proccess is they go on percentage of anterless killed to the amount of tags issued from the year before. Example if they issued 1000 tags and 100 anterless deer were killed that would be a 10 percent success. Now if the 100 anterless kill for the next year was 100 they would issue the same 1000 amount of tags. So if that year only 50 anterless deer were killed which would only be a 5 percent success rate, the next year in Wisconsin if they would still want the 100 anterless deer killed they would now issue 2000 permits because the kill rate went down to 5 percent. So be careful in applying and getting tags and not using, as this may be a reason for DNR to raise the amount of doe tags even more the next year. This was part of the low deer problem in Northern Wisconsin, they based their anterless tags almost entirely on statistics instead of getting their butts out in the field and actually getting hard numbers.
 
I guess I was thinking the party hunting opportunity would end with the tighter restrictions on harvest, but after reading this, it does not appear to be the case?
 
Seems pretty silly to allow cross tagging when you lower limits to try to reduce the harvest.... There isn't a lot of common sense coming out of St Paul about this deer stuff....
 
biglakeba$$ said:
Seems pretty silly to allow cross tagging when you lower limits to try to reduce the harvest.... There isn't a lot of common sense coming out of St Paul about this deer stuff....
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Agree....If you can party hunt, you can just coordinate your tags. Youth tags can easily be slapped on a doe. Lots of wives will continue to shoot deer even though they will actually be shopping in Albertville. It would have been a great time to end this abused rule.
 
Our rules are simple.... You shoot it, you tag it.
Keeps the shananigans out of it just as you outlined.

It will keep the honest people honest, and the dishonest can take their chances to try to play games.

Oh well, at least there is a big shift in this deer stuff. So hard to complain too much...
 
biglakeba$$ said:
Our rules are simple.... You shoot it, you tag it.
Keeps the shananigans out of it just as you outlined.

It will keep the honest people honest, and the dishonest can take their chances to try to play games.

Oh well, at least there is a big shift in this deer stuff. So hard to complain too much...
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Your right about a big shift happening. Many young people I have talked with prefer to use their own tags....as issued.....rather than participate in a party hunt.

I keep looking for a compromise for the groups that head into a camp for a week "up north". It's gotta be rough to be on a ten day hunt and shoot your deer on the first day......then sit in camp for 9 days.....just playing cards and drinking beer. ;) o_O:eek::rolleyes: That "compromise" would seal the deal for many folks.....I just don't know what it is ??? A bonus bear tag or wolf tag?? --- just thinking out of the box here.
 
In my young and dumb days, I can't tell you how many times we stood around a downed deer discussing which tag we should put on it, based on who had a doe tag, who was leaving soonest, who wanted to hunt more, who didn't want a doe in the first place and wasn't giving up their tag. Lots of shenanigans to keep the piling options open. I wish I knew more then.
 
As a kid, I saw the same exact debates.....
One year, I was about 15 or so... my Dad shot 3 does one afternoon..... Unknowing to us, my uncles had left the property earlier in the day....
So we had deer down and not enough tags for them.

Long story shortened, that was the last time those guys ever hunted on the farm. They have never stepped foot on the farm to hunt deer since that day.....
I hate to divulge the details, but we left a deer at the farm untagged and went to my uncles house, only to find them all sitting around a table eating dinner. My Dad blew a gasket on the whole group and told them they were done..... I will spare you the expletives. But as a young man, I stood in that doorway in shock over the conversation, to say the least.

Party hunting ended on our farm for the most part on that evening 30 years ago.... We have cross tagged a few times since then, but under a much more controlled environment. Its been since before 2000 now, and there hasn't been a crosstagged deer since then.
You shoot it, tag it. You don't want to tag it, don't shoot it. Its made things so much simpler for everyone.
 
foggy said:
Your right about a big shift happening. Many young people I have talked with prefer to use their own tags....as issued.....rather than participate in a party hunt.

I keep looking for a compromise for the groups that head into a camp for a week "up north". It's gotta be rough to be on a ten day hunt and shoot your deer on the first day......then sit in camp for 9 days.....just playing cards and drinking beer. ;) o_O:eek::rolleyes: That "compromise" would seal the deal for many folks.....I just don't know what it is ??? A bonus bear tag or wolf tag?? --- just thinking out of the box here.
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One year, I shot my nicest buck ever at 8:00 AM. It was a great memory, but one of the most boring seasons I have ever had. I came to realize that I would rather keep my tag open, pass a decent buck, and hunt hard for a yearling later in season. I usually do not want to fill my tag until the second week of season, as I want to spend as much time in the woods as I can.
 
I think some of the stories here do a good job of validating what I said before.

I sent the email only because Batman asked and who can say no to Batman? I now wonder if I will receive hate mail.
 
Reagan said:
I now wonder if I will receive hate mail.
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It's good to have alternate views. There is no right or wrong in much if this, only opinion.

Big boys put it out there and see where it goes.

I would like to see the abuse of party hunting gone. Easiest way to donut is to make it illegal.

I would love to know how many wives hunt compared to how many tags are bought. I would also like to see a way we could keep guys from rolling home Sunday at noon and leaving their tags on the table at camp.
 
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