60 acres, just acquired

[jaximus]

My brother just purchased 60 acres in North-central Wisconsin. These maps are images from Google Maps, and from what I can tell from nearby areas that I have a better feel of the timeline, the pictures are from August 2013.

The property outline is the greenish yellow and the blue is a creek and a feeder stream.

Again, greenish yellow is the property outline, pink is the "main" trails that are worn to bare dirt, and blue in this map are the bedding areas. Red dots are the neighbors stands.

This picture has the correct time/date stamps.

The adjacent property to the west is largely mature forest, hardwoods mostly. He practices deer management and has some pretty large deer on his 80 acres. There is lots of deer sign on the property in its current state.

Since those maps from Google were taken, the property was left untouched and during the summer of 2014 there was no haying or anything done to the piece of field in the northern portion of the 60. Its currently overgrown grass with 1 ft tall pine saplings spreading out into it (these will be transplanted to other areas).

The plan is to return the field to agricultural uses. Being that acquiring equipment and capital will take time, the current plan is to lease the field to one of the agricultural neighbors and have them plant corn/soybeans/alfalfa.

The western edge of the property is largely pines, most of which are too tall for habitat for deer and all the lower branches are dead. A logger estimated that between $20 and $25k worth of select cut pine is on the property. Our hope is that the logger can get in there this winter and log the western half. There are plenty of smaller trees that will provide immediate cover, and by releasing them by logging, the many saplings that are being shaded out will flourish.

Most of the heavily bedded areas are on the south-eastern corner; the bottom of the "L" and would be left alone, for now. With the added sun from select harvesting the canopy, the released saplings (some are already 8-10 ft tall, others are 2 ft) should fill out creating cover where we want it. There are pods of lower cover in the west central area that we are planning on turning into the sanctuary.

Once the new growth takes over and provides enough cover for the deer to establish that as their new bedding, we hope to thin out the south-east of the "L" in order to push the deer away from the edge of the field.

Eventually the entire central region will be the sanctuary with small lines of cover leading to the fields. The stands will be set up to overlook the travel corridors.

Our belief is that once the smaller more sheltered field in the northern portion of the 60 is returned to use as a glorified food plot, the deer will begin using more north/south running trails and staying on the property.

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions, improvements? Have it at, thank you.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

With small properties, they can be tricky to hold deer as most guys will over hunt there new property!

With neighbors that hunt that close, I would use that to your advantage. Create bedding in the middle of your property and figure out a way to access your stands around the perimeter as undetected as possible. Good Luck!

 

[bwoods11]

Nice looking place!!

Good luck

Try to be different from your neighbor. Like Mo said, do not pressure it ...

As November--- spruce trees where you can!

 

[dipper]

The buzz word is sanctuary. I know the experts throw that word out there more than anything. As mo said your not going to hold deer exclusively on your property. The way I see it your neighbors will benefit more form you not hunting your property than anything. In classic wi style they will stack up on your property border and enjoy the fruits of your efforts. They pretty much have you surrounded already. You'll have a food plot with a south wind, but how often does that happen. You might catch deer moving to the east near that large ag field, but mature buck opportunities will be uncommon near that large field especially since there is heavy hunting pressure.
That property isn't the most hunter friendly. Can you access from that large field from the east? Do they hunt? Hopefully you got it at a good price. You'll have some income from ag and timber, and there is deer there. Which a guy can't be bummed about.
What county?

 

[Steve Bartylla]

As one of the disdained "experts" that tosses the word sanctuary around like rice at a wedding, I don't have a shadow of a doubt that most hunt far more of their property than they should (there are properties that sanctuaries don't make sense, but they do on "most") and that there are many, many, many situations where the best possible improvement one can make to a property is a well placed sanctuary. Designating areas as sanctuaries for the sake of having sanctuaries is as foolish as slapping a food plot in the middle of a 200 acre field, so you have a food plot. It's not going to work there, just like setting aside an area as sanctuary along your property line, where the neighbors can setup right on the edge, also typically doesn't make a lick of sense. You can never make hard and fast rules on virtually anything habitat improvement related. That said, generally speaking, you want to set areas as sanctuary that offer high impact hunting and that are located within the property far enough so that you can slip in between the sanctuary and the property boundary. Obviously, there's more to it than that, but taking that approach is far more likely to benefit you, while not opening the flood gates to the neighbors. In fact, on many, many properties, one can use the neighboring pressure to significantly improve the hunting on your property. Let them crowd your lines (particularly when they have to explode their property to get there), run all over their grounds and shoot everything that moves. Deer aren't deep thinkers, but they get better and better at surviving with each yr they live. When your neighbors are exploding their grounds and you have the core of your property as sanctuary, where do you think many deer head and spend a disproportionate amount of time? The trick is to make it/lay things out so you can effectively hunt their comings and goings. This isn't rocket science. It's actually pretty much common sense, as the overwhelming majority of things you can do to improve your ground/hunting ultimately are. Whether a sanctuary makes any sense at all is dependent on property lay out, sanctuary lay out, what the neighbors are doing and what the goals of the owner are. In most cases, a properly designed sanctuary can be a HUGE difference maker (as noted by the use of all caps, bolded, italic and underlined text ;) ), but they can also be a waste of ground in other situations.

 

[dipper]

He absolutely will hold deer with a norway spruce planting on the north and south end of the ag field. His eastern border is huge ag which is a big advantage as he has first crack on travel to bedding.. South winds happen quite often in November. This November they were more south than North.

You can absolutely hold deer on this property. Your just not going to hold Deer specifically on this property. The term sanctuary often times gives false hope of hoarding deer, while limiting hunting opportunity.
There are still hunters out there that are walking around at 9am opening morning, chasing up deer to everyone else. Those types of hunters are far less common than they used to be. Now it's sit, sit, sit. If these neighbors have box blind style stands, they are sit tight hunters. I have a strong feeling they are sit tight hunters just because you know their stand locations.
making every square foot of your land a deer heaven should be your #1 goal. Do this ASAP! Not taking advantage of every promising stand location under the right conditions would be a big mistake on this property. Limiting intrusion and hunting smart will only make things better.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

As one of the disdained "experts" that tosses the word sanctuary around like rice at a wedding, I don't have a shadow of a doubt that most hunt far more of their property than they should (there are properties that sanctuaries don't make sense, but they do on "most") and that there are many, many, many situations where the best possible improvement one can make to a property is a well placed sanctuary. Designating areas as sanctuaries for the sake of having sanctuaries is as foolish as slapping a food plot in the middle of a 200 acre field, so you have a food plot. It's not going to work there, just like setting aside an area as sanctuary along your property line, where the neighbors can setup right on the edge, also typically doesn't make a lick of sense. You can never make hard and fast rules on virtually anything habitat improvement related. That said, generally speaking, you want to set areas as sanctuary that offer high impact hunting and that are located within the property far enough so that you can slip in between the sanctuary and the property boundary. Obviously, there's more to it than that, but taking that approach is far more likely to benefit you, while not opening the flood gates to the neighbors. In fact, on many, many properties, one can use the neighboring pressure to significantly improve the hunting on your property. Let them crowd your lines (particularly when they have to explode their property to get there), run all over their grounds and shoot everything that moves. Deer aren't deep thinkers, but they get better and better at surviving with each yr they live. When your neighbors are exploding their grounds and you have the core of your property as sanctuary, where do you think many deer head and spend a disproportionate amount of time? The trick is to make it/lay things out so you can effectively hunt their comings and goings. This isn't rocket science. It's actually pretty much common sense, as the overwhelming majority of things you can do to improve your ground/hunting ultimately are. Whether a sanctuary makes any sense at all is dependent on property lay out, sanctuary lay out, what the neighbors are doing and what the goals of the owner are. In most cases, a properly designed sanctuary can be a HUGE difference maker (as noted by the use of all caps, bolded, italic and underlined text ;) ), but they can also be a waste of ground in other situations.

Can you elaborate on high impact hunting?

My idea of high impact hunting is a 10 day stretch sitting on top of the deer being set up between the edges of 2 bedding areas. I get some great video and the bucks do not seem to care if you are there for those ten days. It worked for my daughter as well this year!

 

[MoBuckChaser]

You can absolutely hold deer on this property. Your just not going to hold Deer specifically on this property. The term sanctuary often times gives false hope of hoarding deer, while limiting hunting opportunity.
There are still hunters out there that are walking around at 9am opening morning, chasing up deer to everyone else. Those types of hunters are far less common than they used to be. Now it's sit, sit, sit. If these neighbors have box blind style stands, they are sit tight hunters. I have a strong feeling they are sit tight hunters just because you know their stand locations.
making every square foot of your land a deer heaven should be your #1 goal. Do this ASAP! Not taking advantage of every promising stand location under the right conditions would be a big mistake on this property. Limiting intrusion and hunting smart will only make things better.

I agree. I just want the bucks coming in and out my so called sanctuary thinking the doe's are there. Whether they are or not. And with thick cover they have to get close enough for a sniff as long range visibility does not work when the area is thick enough. And I want to be on sniffers row (pun intended) when they come by!

 

[dipper]

Can you elaborate on high impact hunting?

My idea of high impact hunting is a 10 day stretch sitting on top of the deer being set up between the edges of 2 bedding areas. I get some great video and the bucks do not seem to care if you are there for those ten days. It worked for my daughter as well this year!

Mo your season is a prime example of my point. According to the experts you pounded the snot out of your place. You had daily shot opportunities at bucks, by creating the best habitat in your area! You were swarmed with deer, and it just didn't matter.
I tried an opposite, more sanctuary minded approach this year. I was always seeing bucks, but I was on the outside looking in.
I've been in my woods logging and doing habitat work. There are rubs and scrapes all over the place, right where I was seeing the bucks. Trails as wide as an axe handle. It's amazing what a combo of select cut-hinging and conifers will do. No one has my kind of habitat in my neighborhood, and that's what matters.
Next year it's wait for the right conditions of the rut, and I'm going in for all Dayers.
Next year those bucks will be in bow range during the rut, instead of 100 yards out. If one is hanging by a food plot early season during daylight, he will be hunted.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Can you elaborate on high impact hunting?

My idea of high impact hunting is a 10 day stretch sitting on top of the deer being set up between the edges of 2 bedding areas. I get some great video and the bucks do not seem to care if you are there for those ten days. It worked for my daughter as well this year!

Sure, to me high impact hunting is based 100% on how deer are reacting to my hunting a location. There's all sorts of stuff to it, in my mind, but it really can be broken down to the deer telling me if a stand is high or low impact. If sightings go down with repeated huntings, the stand is high impact (getting in, out or busted on stand, the deer don't like one or more of the things I'm doing). If sightings stay constant or I'm typically not busting deer when getting in, out or on stand, or the deer just don't seem to care that I am, that's low impact.

There are many stands I've hunted repeatedly that don't seem to impact the deer behavior, or do so very little (low impact)...And, there are many more that I can get away with hunting once or twice and things start going down hill fast (high impact)

 

[dipper]

Sniffers row, the best term yet!

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Mo your season is a prime example of my point. According to the experts you pounded the snot out of your place. You had daily shot opportunities at bucks, by creating the best habitat in your area! You were swarmed with deer, and it just didn't matter.
I tried an opposite, more sanctuary minded approach this year. I was always seeing bucks, but I was on the outside looking in.
I've been in my woods logging and doing habitat work. There are rubs and scrapes all over the place, right where I was seeing the bucks. Trails as wide as an axe handle. It's amazing what a combo of select cut-hinging and conifers will do. No one has my kind of habitat in my neighborhood, and that's what matters.
Next year it's wait for the right conditions of the rut, and I'm going in for all Dayers.
Next year those bucks will be in bow range during bow season, instead of 100 yards out.

Funny you say I pounded the snot out of my place. I do to a certain extent, I have 55 days in stand so far in Missouri. Is that a lot? Maybe/maybe not. But I have over 50 stands, that keeps the deer guessing. By playing morning thermals and wind, I can get by with hunting hard and still have buddies hunt as well. You can hunt deer close to the bedding for 3 weeks in my area, but on top of them for 10 days or less. It works for me, maybe Steve or others would say different.

 

[dipper]

Sure, to me high impact hunting is based 100% on how deer are reacting to my hunting a location. There's all sorts of stuff to it, in my mind, but it really can be broken down to the deer telling me if a stand is high or low impact. If sightings go down with repeated huntings, the stand is high impact (getting in, out or busted on stand, the deer don't like one or more of the things I'm doing). If sightings stay constant or I'm typically not busting deer when getting in, out or on stand, or the deer just don't seem to care that I am, that's low impact.

There are many stands I've hunted repeatedly that don't seem to impact the deer behavior, or do so very little (low impact)...And, there are many more that I can get away with hunting once or twice and things start going down hill fast (high impact)

I get what your saying, but that is really confusing. If you have "the habitat" in your neighborhood, everything is low impact when bucks are on their feet. If some doe busts out of her bed it doesn't matter.
My old ladies stud 12 is another example pressure means little if the habitat is prime. I missed the sob two days before and he came right back. The landowner also is in there all year cutting firewood and running his horses. He also shot a yearling opening day, 50 yards from where the stud was bedding. That buck cared less, and pressure was intense. habitat, habitat, habitat!

 

[Steve Bartylla]

I agree and disagree with Dipper on this. I do think many are lead to believe that they have more control over what deer do and don't do than they realistically have. In my mind, all you can do is stack the odds of deer doing what you want them to do. In this case, don't be caught off the property during legal shooting hours of season. It's consistently been my experience that sanctuaries on most ground help stack those odds. That said, simply the use of the word "odds" means there will be times when that doesn't work. As my mommy always told me growing up, "it doesn't matter is it's a 1 in 100 chance of getting caught if you are that one." That said, I'd still rather be on the 99 side than the 1 going into the situation. I like my odds a lot better. So, I at least agree with him that many have unrealistic expectations, but that doesn't mean they can't be very helpful.

Also, as I've wrote many times in many places, I'm NOT a sanctuary purest. I go into them several times during the off season and set stands in the great locations inside, even when they are high impact. I hunt those stands a couple times during season, IF I feel I can't get it done from the outside and there's a reason I believe I can get it done from inside. I'm a firm believer in their power, as my experiences demand that I am from the results on so many pieces of ground. That said, I don't believe that means I'll never lose a buck or that they should never be hunted.

I really disagree on improving every inch of your ground. I want to have a good idea where deer will be, where they are going and when they'll be going there. Nope, that doesn't mean deer always follow the rules or that I'm always right in where I believe they'll be, where they're going or how they get there, but it's stacking odds once again. Improve every inch of the ground and it becomes a free for all in my mind. Now, they are likely to be anywhere, which makes killing them a lot harder.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I get what your saying, but that is really confusing. If you have "the habitat" in your neighborhood, everything is low impact when bucks are on their feet. If some doe busts out of her bed it doesn't matter.
My old ladies stud 12 is another example pressure means little if the habitat is prime. I missed the sob two days before and he came right back. The landowner also is in there all year cutting firewood and running his horses. That buck cared less, and pressure was intense. He required the habitat.

The high impact I am talking about is hunting the same couple stands in the same couple bedding areas for the 10 days if the wind and thermals allow it. Me being the high impact. Before and after those 10 days, everything is low impact as I switch locations a lot because we have a lot of different bucks to go after, and it keeps any one buck from being trained that I am after them specifically.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

I get what your saying, but that is really confusing. If you have "the habitat" in your neighborhood, everything is low impact when bucks are on their feet. If some doe busts out of her bed it doesn't matter.
My old ladies stud 12 is another example pressure means little if the habitat is prime. I missed the sob two days before and he came right back. The landowner also is in there all year cutting firewood and running his horses. That buck cared less, and pressure was intense. He required the habitat.

I generally agree with that statement, but think you need to add a qualifier: During late Oct and Nov . That's why I hunt the sanctuaries and higher impact stands outside of them during the rut. The rut itself allows you to get away with a lot more, giving you closer to a get out of jail free card. The catch is that most seasons start in Sept & Oct 1st. In my experience, it's what you do outside of the rut that has the greatest impact on a property and where sanctuaries typically matter most. For the experiences you just shared, I can list a ton more examples of people that literally destroyed their grounds before Nov 1st. Because they didn't have does, they had pitifully few bucks looking for them on their ground.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

P.S. In late season, when you have a prime food source and food is generally scarce in the area is another time you can often get away with throwing caution to the wind...Deer can get desperate and want the food more than the feeling of safety

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I agree and disagree with Dipper on this. I do think many are lead to believe that they have more control over what deer do and don't do than they realistically have. In my mind, all you can do is stack the odds of deer doing what you want them to do. In this case, don't be caught off the property during legal shooting hours of season. It's consistently been my experience that sanctuaries on most ground help stack those odds. That said, simply the use of the word "odds" means there will be times when that doesn't work. As my mommy always told me growing up, "it doesn't matter is it's a 1 in 100 chance of getting caught if you are that one." That said, I'd still rather be on the 99 side than the 1 going into the situation. I like my odds a lot better. So, I at least agree with him that many have unrealistic expectations, but that doesn't mean they can't be very helpful.

Also, as I've wrote many times in many places, I'm NOT a sanctuary purest. I go into them several times during the off season and set stands in the great locations inside, even when they are high impact. I hunt those stands a couple times during season, IF I feel I can't get it done from the outside and there's a reason I believe I can get it done from inside. I'm a firm believer in their power, as my experiences demand that I am from the results on so many pieces of ground. That said, I don't believe that means I'll never lose a buck or that they should never be hunted.

I really disagree on improving every inch of your ground. I want to have a good idea where deer will be, where they are going and when they'll be going there. Nope, that doesn't mean deer always follow the rules or that I'm always right in where I believe they'll be, where they're going or how they get there, but it's stacking odds once again. Improve every inch of the ground and it becomes a free for all in my mind. Now, they are likely to be anywhere, which makes killing them a lot harder.

For me that depends on the size of the property. I sell quite a few smaller properties, 40's and 80's. One thing I have learned over the years is that if the property requires it, by doing some work across the entire 40 or 80, It helps, if nothing else in the eyes of the guy/guys buying it. But so much depends on the property. One property I hunt and don't own, is set up so good it needs nothing, and that is what some people can screw up so fast by not realizing what they have. A plan, or lack there of, can really help or hinder increasing ones odds of having a quality hunt.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

P.S. In late season, when you have a prime food source and food is generally scarce in the area is another time you can often get away with throwing caution to the wind...Deer can get desperate and want the food more than the feeling of safety

Agreed! The Bucks are a lot easier to hunt if you have the only beans left standing come the end of Dec!:D

 

[Steve Bartylla]

What I will say to anyone is, if you are thrilled with your results, keep doing it, no matter how many "experts" tell you that what you are doing is wrong. Nearly every situation is different, to one extent or another. There is no one way to skin a cat best for everyone in every situation. What dipper did this year obviously worked well for him in his situation (his sig other killed and he missed a slob....that's "working" in my mind). On the flip side, who is going to tell NoFo that what he is doing is wrong, with all the mature bucks they are dragging out? How about my 2 long term WI clients, that hadn't ever killed anything over 2.5 yr olds, and they were rare, but have rolled 3.5s the past 3 and 4 yrs running now? If it works, do it, regardless of if that's having a sanctuary or not.