switchgrass alternative

[DiSc0Rd]

so i was wanting to put in switchgrass as a screen next spring but man is that stuff expensive. looking at over a grand to buy the bare minimum to cover the spots i want to screen. is there something else that will server the same purpose as a lower cost? the farm is a old xmas tree farm in central IL and it is all sandy soil. it's never had anything but trees on it and the ground hasnt been touched in prob a decade.

 

[Tree Spud]

Miscanthus at $0.70/rhizome will require 66 rhizomes per 100' (33 x 2 rows) will cost you $46/100'. That will take at least 4 years to produce viable screening.

Red Pine at $1.5/seedling will require 50 seedlings per 100' (16 per row x 2) and cost you $75/100'. They will take 6-8 years to get to screening height.

A 20' wide, 100' long strip (2000 sgft) of of SG will mature to 5'-6' in 2 years. At $12/lbs and 4 lbs per acre, that would be about $3/2000 sq ft.

You could try egyptian wheat, red top forage sorghum, but those are seasonal and don't stand up to snow or heavy fall rain. Willows and shrubs are good until their leaves drop.

What is your budget?

 

[Rit]

Umm how much area are you wanting to plant. Cave in Rock can be had for $8 a pound.

 

[DiSc0Rd]

Umm how much area are you wanting to plant. Cave in Rock can be had for $8 a pound.

I just did a Google search and found 25 pounds for $299 that says it covers 3 acres I need about 10 acres worth. I have 5 acres just on field edges not to mention the open areas in the center that have no cover that will need filled in. That seems to be a common cost per pound.

 

[Rit]

Ask this question to 50 people and you will get 50 different answers. It’s up to you to decide which persons response is the correct one for your situation. Here is my opinion.

A monoculture of switch is is not the answer for deer. I planted a 7 acre monoculture of switch because I thought that was the perfect cover. It’s really good cover but not for deer. There aren’t too many days that go by that I don’t wish I would have did it differently. 25 pounds for 3 acres is on the high side to me. Google will tell you over and over 8-10 pounds of pls per acre for deer. I know you always hear that no cover for deer can be too thick but that has not been my experience. SG grows in clumps and when you get it too thick it’s a major PIA to walk thru let alone get away from predators. Deer like to bed where they have cover behind them and off to the side but they also like to have a good view out in front of them. Super thick clumps of SG in a huge stand do not allow this. I planted my field at 6 lbs per acre. I think it’s still too thick. Deer move on the edge of it but they rarely walk thru it. It’s just too much work. They don’t bed in it like I had hoped. When I bust them out of the field they can be standing 5’ from the SG but yet they always..... and I mean always run to the woods. Why is it that they have great cover 5’ away but run 45 yards to the woods out in the open. Because thick tall switch is a major pain to get thru and they will also lose sight of the predator.

The other factor in a monoculture of switch is no food. Deer need browse and there is none inside of the switch. I am actually in the process of killing some of my switch to add browse pockets and diversity.

You say you have 5 acres of field edge to screen? A switch screen doesn’t need to be very wide. 6-10’ works fine. I did a 6’ screen off a field edge and it has worked great. If you have 5 acres of field to screen at 10’ wide that’s almost 4 miles of screen. The other middle ground that you speak of I’d use pockets of switch to break it up, and supplement that with some tree/shrub plantings and let nature take care of some as well. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

 

[Tree Spud]

^^^^ I have had the exact opposite experience. I have 2 separate areas where I have 9-10 acres of SG. Even though there is plenty of sanctuary and bedding areas on the property, the deer also use the SG quite a bit for bedding. I planted SG at a rate of 4-5 lbs per acre, keep in mind that the SG produces seed also. It is very thick (5'-6' tall) and the deer have created extensive trail system, pretty much the same trails they created before it was SG.

Regarding SG being a mono-culture, I think that is a positive regarding bedding. I am not looking for food/browse to be a part of the bedding area. For me, bedding areas are designed as quiet protected areas where the deer feel safe. I plant blocks of spruce and SG separately. Spruce provides thermal and overhead cover, and SG in the colder months creates both thermal cover but also allows the deer to get exposed to the sun. I have started to plant 10-12 spruce tree blocks in the SG.

From a screening perspective, in my opinion the best long term solution is to plant Red Pine, or Norway Spruce which is a slower grower, in 3 rows with each row staggered. Plant RP every 8'. While the pine are growing, you could plant a strip of SG on the interior side of your pines to provide initial screening.

You can also use SG to create strips of screening for accessing stands.

The other benefit SG adds especially to sandy soils is organic matter. Large deep extensive root systems that grow 6'-7' into the soil and excellent above ground OM. Some of my soils are loamy sand and the SG has thrived in it.

From a bedding perspective, in the picture below there are probably 25-30 bedding spots in the area shown below. As food plots & sanctuary are on far side of the pic, the SG allows me 2 different access routes to stand sites with good screening and to play the wind.

Every property is different and there is no one size fits all answer. Study your property along with surrounding terrain and learn how the deer interact.

Habitat development is a lot like home remodeling ... short cuts & quick fixes usually cost you more in the long run.

 

[roymunson]

the last 2 responses are 2 of the 50 different that you'll get... Haha...

I just planted switch this year. some large contigueous chunks, but all of them had a design to them. an edge or triangle shape meant to draw deer down into a killable area. We've coupled it with old field growth, some woods, and some different edges and habitat. Switch is a good product, but it's not a magic bullet. I plan on using it as a piece of the entire puzzle for habitat work.

We have woods that we use as a sanctuary that's been hinge cut and old junk trees knocked down for thick cover/bedding.

We have food and edges, but generally speaking, deer like variety, edges, and nuance. Its why you don't worry about a couple weeds in your food plots because they're browsers. They'll find the good stuff.

Its also playing the long game. You won't turn a place over overnight and make it amazing. But look at it via a 5 year window and you'll start to appreciate it more, and enjoy the trip to getting the property where you want it to go.

 

[DiSc0Rd]

Thanks for all the tips guys. I will have more questions in the future for sure. The main purpose currently is screening the Neighbors and to have like you said having cover getting to stands problem right now is you can walk the timber Edge to almost every stand except for two that are in the middle and I'd like to be able to be hidden on the way there. There is a bit of cover from the Pines that are there there's just pockets of windows it you stand out like a sore thumb

 

[Tree Spud]

the last 2 responses are 2 of the 50 different that you'll get... Haha...

I just planted switch this year. some large contigueous chunks, but all of them had a design to them. an edge or triangle shape meant to draw deer down into a killable area. We've coupled it with old field growth, some woods, and some different edges and habitat. Switch is a good product, but it's not a magic bullet. I plan on using it as a piece of the entire puzzle for habitat work.

We have woods that we use as a sanctuary that's been hinge cut and old junk trees knocked down for thick cover/bedding.

We have food and edges, but generally speaking, deer like variety, edges, and nuance. Its why you don't worry about a couple weeds in your food plots because they're browsers. They'll find the good stuff.

Its also playing the long game. You won't turn a place over overnight and make it amazing. But look at it via a 5 year window and you'll start to appreciate it more, and enjoy the trip to getting the property where you want it to go.

Good to know that you just planted SG based on developed "kill" strategies ... please share those resources this strategy was based on so we can all benefit ...

 

[Mibowhunter91]

^^^^ I have had the exact opposite experience. I have 2 separate areas where I have 9-10 acres of SG. Even though there is plenty of sanctuary and bedding areas on the property, the deer also use the SG quite a bit for bedding. I planted SG at a rate of 4-5 lbs per acre, keep in mind that the SG produces seed also. It is very thick (5'-6' tall) and the deer have created extensive trail system, pretty much the same trails they created before it was SG.

Regarding SG being a mono-culture, I think that is a positive regarding bedding. I am not looking for food/browse to be a part of the bedding area. For me, bedding areas are designed as quiet protected areas where the deer feel safe. I plant blocks of spruce and SG separately. Spruce provides thermal and overhead cover, and SG in the colder months creates both thermal cover but also allows the deer to get exposed to the sun. I have started to plant 10-12 spruce tree blocks in the SG.

From a screening perspective, in my opinion the best long term solution is to plant Red Pine, or Norway Spruce which is a slower grower, in 3 rows with each row staggered. Plant RP every 8'. While the pine are growing, you could plant a strip of SG on the interior side of your pines to provide initial screening.

You can also use SG to create strips of screening for accessing stands.

The other benefit SG adds especially to sandy soils is organic matter. Large deep extensive root systems that grow 6'-7' into the soil and excellent above ground OM. Some of my soils are loamy sand and the SG has thrived in it.

From a bedding perspective, in the picture below there are probably 25-30 bedding spots in the area shown below. As food plots & sanctuary are on far side of the pic, the SG allows me 2 different access routes to stand sites with good screening and to play the wind.

Every property is different and there is no one size fits all answer. Study your property along with surrounding terrain and learn how the deer interact.

Habitat development is a lot like home remodeling ... short cuts & quick fixes usually cost you more in the long run.


View attachment 30652

Not to derail the topic but you have me curious as to if you burn your switch or not and how do you protect the trees if you do burn currently working on 10 year old or so field that was planted to trees and I want to get some switch in the spots where the trees either never took off or died off

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DiSc0Rd]

We have burned a ton of fields some go great a few got a little sketchy the way we start is start burning closest to the things you don't want to burn with the wind blowing the Direction you don't want it to go. once it starts to burn we use hand sprayers put the fire out in the directions we didn't want it to go since you're burning Against the Wind it keeps the fire progression slow and you have the water tanks on your back to put out any stray flames. To me, the key is WE. I never burn alone 3 ppl is the minimum I will burn with and that's for under 2 acres. Hope that helps.

 

[buckdeer1]

Thats alot of strips,16 1/2 ft by half a mile is an acre if I remember.On some ground that would be barely wide enough to provide a screen and theres the chance it won't grow tall enough to hide you.Another issue can be that deer bed in your screen.I would look at some of the commercial mixes to try and then you can see which plant stands longer in your area

 

[roymunson]

Good to know that you just planted SG based on developed "kill" strategies ... please share those resources this strategy was based on so we can all benefit ...

Not sure I'm tracking with you. I was saying I planted SG as a part of the puzzle. Not the entire thing. There is a lot of edge in how we put it in. IE, not just a giant square block of SG. I think it's a good tool to have in the bag, and I intend to have hunting action based on the fact that instead of 15-20 acres of open pasture field, we now have (or will in the next couple of years when it grows up) a mix of SG, old field growth, fallow pasture that gets thick. Takes a long time to get a stand of timber, so this is the next fastest thing. All these different terrains are tapered down to a common spot where hopefully we set up a stand and the deer will want to work past that spot.

I am probably dense, but I wasn't folllowing the tone or meaning of your post.

 

[Mibowhunter91]

We have burned a ton of fields some go great a few got a little sketchy the way we start is start burning closest to the things you don't want to burn with the wind blowing the Direction you don't want it to go. once it starts to burn we use hand sprayers put the fire out in the directions we didn't want it to go since you're burning Against the Wind it keeps the fire progression slow and you have the water tanks on your back to put out any stray flames. To me, the key is WE. I never burn alone 3 ppl is the minimum I will burn with and that's for under 2 acres. Hope that helps.

Thanks I’ve burned like that before I don’t know why it didn’t register until you said it

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[scott44]

Here is a Cave N Rock switch screen I have on our north fenceline, fenceline on the right. It's about 20' wide and grows alittle every year it was planted at about 6#/acre.

A combo of switch and MG makes a good screen.

MG makes one of the best screens.

 

[j-bird]

For a screen I would suggest the MG as stated above. It will get much taller and thus do a better job as a screen. For cover switchgrass is great and I have it essentially in both a mono culture and mixed in with other "weeds".....I find that for habitat the critters like the mixed area better (use it more often). My switchgrass - the grass itself, not the seed head, will get about 5 feet tall. Established MG will get twice that height. As for working with switch, I burn most of mine. For protecting anything in the grass from fire...I let it burn. I think having shrubs in the switch would be great, but you will have to create firebreaks around them to protect them in my opinion.

 

[DiSc0Rd]

is the MG a perennial or annual?

 

[scott44]

is the MG a perennial or annual?

Perennial, you plant rhizomes and the cluster grows every year, once established you can take cuttings and plant them.

 

[Tree Spud]

Not sure I'm tracking with you. I was saying I planted SG as a part of the puzzle. Not the entire thing. There is a lot of edge in how we put it in. IE, not just a giant square block of SG. I think it's a good tool to have in the bag, and I intend to have hunting action based on the fact that instead of 15-20 acres of open pasture field, we now have (or will in the next couple of years when it grows up) a mix of SG, old field growth, fallow pasture that gets thick. Takes a long time to get a stand of timber, so this is the next fastest thing. All these different terrains are tapered down to a common spot where hopefully we set up a stand and the deer will want to work past that spot.

I am probably dense, but I wasn't folllowing the tone or meaning of your post.

As I said, I am interested in learning about SG and the kill strategies. There are a lot of gimmicks out there that easy to quickly dismiss. I am always open to learning when people can share real experiences on tactics that work.

 

[roymunson]

As I said, I am interested in learning about SG and the kill strategies. There are a lot of gimmicks out there that easy to quickly dismiss. I am always open to learning when people can share real experiences on tactics that work.

nothing you don't already know. I posted a SUPER high tech paint program picture of the plans over on my land tour thread
http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/mohican-land-tour.9843/page-2