Wild Turkey Management on a Deer Property

[Corbin.clay]

Branching off someones suggestion on another thread. I am in year 1, not year 6, but will share how I have started out. My land is 5% mature trees, 90% thick cover, and 5% openings (lanes, roads, and plots. I have 2 creeks so water is not a need. I have a few mature trees for roosting, but they are surround by cover so thick no turkey is coming close to them without flying a long ways. My goals are to 1) increase access to roost trees, both on the creeks and off. 2) create openings that connect each area of the farm 3) increase brooding and bugging areas.

1. Thinning around mature trees to make fly up and down easier and safer. This one is harder because deer travel my creeks lined with mature trees and I do not want to disrupt those habits. I have some native grasses and shrubs around these around that I will manage and allow to grow back at low height, to provide some cover and bugging areas.
2. Deer prefer narrow trails, turkeys in my opinion, prefer wider trails with less hiding places for predators. Here I am torn on how wide to make my paths connecting food plots and thinning my thick cover. My plan is to edge feather my trails and provide some native shrubs that provide both mast and browse for deer staggered along the sides. My way of compromising by having a wider path but line it with more deer food.
3. These openings will branch off of my food plots focused for deer. I think of this as an extended edge feathering around my plots that gives more low level cover, mixed with fruit/seed producing shrubs. Most of my fruit trees ring my plots so this will add even more food to deer plots, and hopefully won't hurt deer movement as they still have lots of thick cover. Most of my plots are moving to perennials (clover, alfalfa, chicory) to decrease time spent in the plots disturbing and pressuring wildlife.

From my research, turkeys are oppurtunistic feeders and food plots are essentially a non-factor. Creating additional small openings with low ground cover when mature hens can see and small poults are protected are ideal (Buckwheat and red clover mix). I believe my thick cover can easily be used for nesting, especially around the scattered pines that provide overhead cover for the hen.

In summary, turkeys need more habitat on my property where my deer need more food. Most of my deer improvements help turkeys, but some of my turkey management will be detrimental to deer.

 

[j-bird]

Branching off someones suggestion on another thread. I am in year 1, not year 6, but will share how I have started out. My land is 5% mature trees, 90% thick cover, and 5% openings (lanes, roads, and plots. I have 2 creeks so water is not a need. I have a few mature trees for roosting, but they are surround by cover so thick no turkey is coming close to them without flying a long ways. My goals are to 1) increase access to roost trees, both on the creeks and off. 2) create openings that connect each area of the farm 3) increase brooding and bugging areas.

1. Thinning around mature trees to make fly up and down easier and safer. This one is harder because deer travel my creeks lined with mature trees and I do not want to disrupt those habits. I have some native grasses and shrubs around these around that I will manage and allow to grow back at low height, to provide some cover and bugging areas.
2. Deer prefer narrow trails, turkeys in my opinion, prefer wider trails with less hiding places for predators. Here I am torn on how wide to make my paths connecting food plots and thinning my thick cover. My plan is to edge feather my trails and provide some native shrubs that provide both mast and browse for deer staggered along the sides. My way of compromising by having a wider path but line it with more deer food.
3. These openings will branch off of my food plots focused for deer. I think of this as an extended edge feathering around my plots that gives more low level cover, mixed with fruit/seed producing shrubs. Most of my fruit trees ring my plots so this will add even more food to deer plots, and hopefully won't hurt deer movement as they still have lots of thick cover. Most of my plots are moving to perennials (clover, alfalfa, chicory) to decrease time spent in the plots disturbing and pressuring wildlife.

From my research, turkeys are oppurtunistic feeders and food plots are essentially a non-factor. Creating additional small openings with low ground cover when mature hens can see and small poults are protected are ideal (Buckwheat and red clover mix). I believe my thick cover can easily be used for nesting, especially around the scattered pines that provide overhead cover for the hen.

In summary, turkeys need more habitat on my property where my deer need more food. Most of my deer improvements help turkeys, but some of my turkey management will be detrimental to deer.

My only concern would be having to maintain that balance. By trying to make both happy you tend to not be able to optimize either. I prefer to focus on one and if it helps the others then I get what I get from that perspective. Deer are my passion, if the turkey, quail, rabbits, and the like get some help along the way.....well I'm OK with that too. Just my 2 cents worth.....I'm also not a turkey hunter, for what that is worth.

 

[Corbin.clay]

I enjoy turking hunting, it bridges the gap from hunting season to fishing season nicely! I definitely believe there will be tradeoffs when managing for one versus the other.

 

[j-bird]

I enjoy turking hunting, it bridges the gap from hunting season to fishing season nicely! I definitely believe there will be tradeoffs when managing for one versus the other.

Oh "Turking".......wait......um, what's a "turking"???? You got some sort of new critter out there in NC???? Yes - I'm being sarcastic!

Spring just tends to be a busy time for me habitat and family wise so if I have to fight for hunting time....I'll choose the fall over spring every time. To each their own. Hope you get some further turkey.....yes TURKEY....help from some others!!!

 

[yoderjac]

Your turkey must be different than mine in VA. My birds use all kinds of habitat including very thick stuff. The will roost in a wide variety of age classes of pines here as well as occasional hardwoods. The location of the roost tree with respect to terrain, water, and open areas tends to drive their specific roost locations more than anything else. They do seem to have an affinity for pines.

As for balancing management of deer and turkey, there is a huge overlap. Just about anything you do for deer, turkey will benefit from. The mix of age classes of timber in proximity to each other as well as open areas and creek bottoms works well for both. Probably the biggest consideration for managing turkey is arrangement. I posted details in the other thread, but the key is focusing on poults. They are the driving factor. They are very vulnerable when young and movement equals risk. Having good nesting cover proximate to brooding cover is key. Probably one thing I forgot to mention in my post on the other thread is shrubs (another deer friendly thing). When birds are young and still vulnerable and just beginning to fly, they are very limited in flight distance. A short flight into shrubbery can get them out of reach of a ground predator pretty quickly where they may not make it into a mature tree. I did mention on the other thread how vertical cover with bare ground for easy movement proximate to bugging ground (clover, another deer crop) can help protect them from avian predators.

If you have diverse habitat, food is not an issue for turkey. You can select crops that are good for deer to accomplish just about any turkey management objective.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Most of my plots are moving to perennials (clover, alfalfa, chicory) to decrease time spent in the plots disturbing and pressuring wildlife.

I like your plan. I agree with joderjac...just about anything you do for deer will benefit turkeys to some degree.

About time spent in plots disturbing and pressuring deer. I personally don't think it's an issue. In fact, in my experience I think THE MORE TIME you spend in your plots working on them the more relaxed and habituated deer and turkeys become. I work on my land and in my plots nearly every day all summer...I'm a teacher. I can come and go at will, on my ATV, tractor, on foot, and deer really pay no attention to me other than to just watch me as I walk or ride by them often at just a mere 15 to 20 yards away.

 

[Corbin.clay]

Oh "Turking".......wait......um, what's a "turking"???? You got some sort of new critter out there in NC???? Yes - I'm being sarcastic!

Spring just tends to be a busy time for me habitat and family wise so if I have to fight for hunting time....I'll choose the fall over spring every time. To each their own. Hope you get some further turkey.....yes TURKEY....help from some others!!!

Turking is how us beach rednecks shorten turkey hunting into 1 word, jk! Spring is definitely busy around here, I just have to take every chance I get to be outside hunting. I squirrel and rabbit hunt in january and feb, but after taking march off from hunting, im ready to get back at it. After turkey season its all work.

 

[Corbin.clay]

Your turkey must be different than mine in VA. My birds use all kinds of habitat including very thick stuff. The will roost in a wide variety of age classes of pines here as well as occasional hardwoods. The location of the roost tree with respect to terrain, water, and open areas tends to drive their specific roost locations more than anything else. They do seem to have an affinity for pines.

As for balancing management of deer and turkey, there is a huge overlap. Just about anything you do for deer, turkey will benefit from. The mix of age classes of timber in proximity to each other as well as open areas and creek bottoms works well for both. Probably the biggest consideration for managing turkey is arrangement. I posted details in the other thread, but the key is focusing on poults. They are the driving factor. They are very vulnerable when young and movement equals risk. Having good nesting cover proximate to brooding cover is key. Probably one thing I forgot to mention in my post on the other thread is shrubs (another deer friendly thing). When birds are young and still vulnerable and just beginning to fly, they are very limited in flight distance. A short flight into shrubbery can get them out of reach of a ground predator pretty quickly where they may not make it into a mature tree. I did mention on the other thread how vertical cover with bare ground for easy movement proximate to bugging ground (clover, another deer crop) can help protect them from avian predators.

If you have diverse habitat, food is not an issue for turkey. You can select crops that are good for deer to accomplish just about any turkey management objective.

Thanks,

Jack

Turkeys around me around similar to yours, and do use lots of mixed age pines and a very wide variety of habitats. But my 35 acres is almost all thick cover, with very little openings. Because of this I believe they skirt my property for better properties around me. My county is Top 5 in the state each year with turkey harvest. Im a 1/2 mile from 75,000 acres of public gamelands that is very desolate and great turkey habitat (pine savanna and pocosin that they burn regularly). So there are birds around, but my property is essentially surrounded by cover so thick they would have to fly over it, or walk down my drive way. I am working to make that transition easier for them on the sides and back of my property. Once my south neighbor cuts his pines, It should improve greatly.

 

[Corbin.clay]

I like your plan. I agree with joderjac...just about anything you do for deer will benefit turkeys to some degree.

About time spent in plots disturbing and pressuring deer. I personally don't think it's an issue. In fact, in my experience I think THE MORE TIME you spend in your plots working on them the more relaxed and habituated deer and turkeys become. I work on my land and in my plots nearly every day all summer...I'm a teacher. I can come and go at will, on my ATV, tractor, on foot, and deer really pay no attention to me other than to just watch me as I walk or ride by them often at just a mere 15 to 20 yards away.

Teacher here too! Biology, Chemistry, Marine Science and NC wildlife. Last year we saw a steady dropoff in daylight sighting of deer and we are just trying to cut back where we can during prime times. Last month we cooked hot dogs over a fire, shot skeet and rode atvs, so its not off limits. Before turkey season and right before deer, I just try to avoid it when possible. But I do understand at 35 acres, im still heavily dependent on chance and my neighbors activities.

 

[yoderjac]

Turkeys around me around similar to yours, and do use lots of mixed age pines and a very wide variety of habitats. But my 35 acres is almost all thick cover, with very little openings. Because of this I believe they skirt my property for better properties around me. My county is Top 5 in the state each year with turkey harvest. Im a 1/2 mile from 75,000 acres of public gamelands that is very desolate and great turkey habitat (pine savanna and pocosin that they burn regularly). So there are birds around, but my property is essentially surrounded by cover so thick they would have to fly over it, or walk down my drive way. I am working to make that transition easier for them on the sides and back of my property. Once my south neighbor cuts his pines, It should improve greatly.

There were some areas at MCB Quantico that had been select cut. The trees left were oaks and were very sparse. The area grew up so thick that you pretty much could only walk the old logging road that went through it. I archery hunted it by making a small path to one of the oaks about 20 yards from the old logging road hoping to catch a buck cruising the road. When the acorns fell in the fall, turkey hammered the area leaving the adjoining area of mature white oak untouched. I could often hear the birds but it was so thick not only could I not get a shot, I could often only catch glimpses of them as the fed on the acorns. Never once when I was hunting did they use the logging road (deer did), but the were using the area on a regular basis. Conventional wisdom says they would have preferred the wide open mature oaks where they could see predators, but that was not my observation.

I'm not doubting what you say that birds are not using your area, but I doubt it is because it is too thick. They may simply have such good options nearby that it is not used.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Corbin.clay]

Thanks for the info, I am very limited in oaks. I may look at the surrounding properties more, specifically the ones holding spring birds, and adjust that plan. I just assumed thick cover was the difference in birds using the properties, since it is the most visible difference.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for the info, I am very limited in oaks. I may look at the surrounding properties more, specifically the ones holding spring birds, and adjust that plan. I just assumed thick cover was the difference in birds using the properties, since it is the most visible difference.

I think the first step I would take is to find a small section of your thick stuff to clear. No more than 1/4 acre. Plant winter rye and clover in the fall. After a year of establishment, the clover should be the first thing to green up in the spring and it will attract bugs. Put a good camera on it that doesn't miss triggers and I'll bet you will find hens and poults using it in the spring.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Corbin.clay]

I think the first step I would take is to find a small section of your thick stuff to clear. No more than 1/4 acre. Plant winter rye and clover in the fall. After a year of establishment, the clover should be the first thing to green up in the spring and it will attract bugs. Put a good camera on it that doesn't miss triggers and I'll bet you will find hens and poults using it in the spring.

Thanks,

Jack

I have 2 of those areas, 1 was started fall of 2015 and is now only white clover. The other was started fall 2016 and has rye and clover growing in it still. Last spring is the only time I have been on the farm during spring. I left a cam on it through season and had one hen late march come through. No poults. However, that whole 35 acres was thick cover less than a year before that. I will put cams back out this week in hopes of getting more info on the birds. Do you think clearing some paths between my 3 plots and to the edges of the property (southside meets up to a cutover, west side meets mature pine thickets, north is thick cover like mine) would be beneficial?

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Teacher here too! Biology, Chemistry, Marine Science and NC wildlife. Last year we saw a steady dropoff in daylight sighting of deer and we are just trying to cut back where we can during prime times. Last month we cooked hot dogs over a fire, shot skeet and rode atvs, so its not off limits. Before turkey season and right before deer, I just try to avoid it when possible. But I do understand at 35 acres, im still heavily dependent on chance and my neighbors activities.

You and I have much in common. I teach Bio, Chem., and Natural History. I also do an Intro to Timber Framing class on the side once a day. Gets me out of my classroom and burning some energy!

I hear you. I tread lightly just before turkey season and just before deer season as well. It's smart. Otherwise, I'm on the land just about every day doing something.

I'm on 30 acres of primarily mixed deciduous/spruce swamps and have no oaks whatsoever, but I do have some tracts of large ash, maples, black cherry. Old fields, wild apples, early successional growth, a little bit of everything. I just put in two small food plots in the past 2 years. Turkeys are using my property more and more. I found that the number one improvement I made that seems to make my land more favorable to turkeys is the opening up of all old logging roads and the construction of new little ATV and tractor trails.

Good luck with your plan!

 

[Corbin.clay]

Thats what i'm looking to do! I have 3 1/2 acre food plots on 35 acres. Im working to slowly expand these out to 1 acre each, divided by fruit and nut trees. I teach drivers ed in afternoon for spending money so i normally get to the farm 1 day a week.

 

[Someday isle]

I really like knowing there are others with smaller properties with similar goals. I have 36 acres and just turned some logging roads into food plots last year. We did well in our first year of deer hunting but we'd like to have some turkey hunting opportunities too. My son saw what he thought was eight turkeys on one sit bowhuting last year and I heard them the same day. Other than that we never saw any. We saw a flock cross the road once but only have one turkey ever caught on camera. We don't see any turkey tracks but do find the occasional feather. Our hope is that the clover comes in well this spring and draws a few neighborhood birds. My part of the state definitely has turkeys so maybe something good will happen.

Off topic a little but I saw a covey of quail last week. Hopefully if we can hold a few deer and quail we're also building turkey habitat.

 

[H20fwler]

What I do for them is very similar to how I try and promote deer on my property...food/shelter/water.
Most of it runs hand in hand with anything I do to benefit deer, turkey like the clover patches, turkey eat pears&apples, turkey hit the feeders, turkey like native grasses, they like cruising the edge of the ponds, they also like the mast trees. I am also at permanent war with coons and coyotes.
One thing I do extra for them is protecting roost trees when selective harvesting timber and I plant hazelnuts just for them, I also put a bag of oyster shell out about ten yards from feeder for them for scratch. Oyster shell to a turkey is like a mineral block to a deer.

 

[ghilliehunter]

H2O, didn't know about the oyster shell but it makes sense, good to know. In agreement on coyotes, coons, possums, any nest raider or poult killer.
One question on habitat to forum members. I have a ton of shagbark hickories. Do turkeys/deer eat shagbark hickory nuts? I thought only squirrels but have heard tales otherwise.

 

[H20fwler]

Turkeys and wood ducks will, especially the little pig hickories. I've never seen a deer eat them but have seen them eat the leaves.
It is amazing that wood ducks can even swallow full size hickory nuts, many times I have shot them with the nuts in their craw and flushed them from under the trees.

 

[Corbin.clay]

I've heard deer further north favor hickories where there are large forests of them. My old stomping grounds in the piedmont of NC, they wouldn't touch them. Didnt turkey hunt then, so didn't pay attention to see if turkeys fed on hickories. I like the oyster shell idea, given they scratch for gravel just like other birds with gizzards/crops. Doves probably enjoy the oyster shells as well. I planted 25 hazelnuts, 25 chinquapins, and some other berry producing shrubs so hopefully food will not be a problem. Im working on a plan for nwsg or similar for poults to bug in. Going to try the disc and wait approach to see whats in the seed bank. Just out a little fuel if it works.