Which CWD Approach Better - WI Let It Happen or Kill Them To Save Them?

[Mortenson]

Nature usually works these things out.

 

[Angus 1895]

Is there evidence that prions replicate themselves?

If they accumulate in the brain, how are they shed by infected animals?

Do they use cellular metabolites from the host?

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Is there evidence that prions replicate themselves?

If they accumulate in the brain, how are they shed by infected animals?

Do they use cellular metabolites from the host?

The Ecology of Prions - PMC

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) affects cervids and is the only known prion disease readily transmitted among free-ranging wild animal populations in nature. The increasing spread and prevalence of CWD among cervid populations threaten the survival of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This paper is from 2017, but is still a pretty good review of what we know about prions and how they spread in the environment.

It is my understanding that it is the mis-folded proteins that cause prions to accumulate in the brains and that the mis-folding is a chain reaction that takes years in animals. They have definitely detected the prions in deer feces. They have even detected them in coyote and racoon feces. It is also understood that plants can take up the prions, potentially aiding in transmission. In the paper linked above, they cite a number of studies that have looked into how long the prions causing CWD persist in the environment. It looks like it can persist for decades in certain types of clays, but naturally breaks down over time.

 

[West_Fork]

Yep. Up north is all about predator protection, bats, killing all trees in the tallgrass prairie, confiscating as much rec land as possible, and keeping people in town.

Where all the science guys lost the people was when their ideas couldn't hold up to scruitny, or they outright attacked and tried to destroy anyone with alternative theories. They also tried to pass off all kinds of kook theory as active science, even though it could never be replicated. The experiments with prion loading in the monkeys was really batty.

Those are not science guys, those are the religious zealots propped up by popular media and politicos. The science guys have been silenced through blacklisting and intimidation.

 

[Angus 1895]

The Ecology of Prions - PMC

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) affects cervids and is the only known prion disease readily transmitted among free-ranging wild animal populations in nature. The increasing spread and prevalence of CWD among cervid populations threaten the survival of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This paper is from 2017, but is still a pretty good review of what we know about prions and how they spread in the environment.

It is my understanding that it is the mis-folded proteins that cause prions to accumulate in the brains and that the mis-folding is a chain reaction that takes years in animals. They have definitely detected the prions in deer feces. They have even detected them in coyote and racoon feces. It is also understood that plants can take up the prions, potentially aiding in transmission. In the paper linked above, they cite a number of studies that have looked into how long the prions causing CWD persist in the environment. It looks like it can persist for decades in certain types of clays, but naturally breaks down over time.

The introduction of the paper you cite claims its prion hypothesis.

I’m beginning to believe this “ hypothesis “ may not be as accurate as some promote.

It is just a hard pill to swallow it’s a passive mutation of host protein.

 

[356]

Is there evidence that prions replicate themselves?

If they accumulate in the brain, how are they shed by infected animals?

Do they use cellular metabolites from the host?

Yes, it appears the misfolded prions both accumulate and replicate--but not in the normal sense (in fact, some journal articles state, "Prions do not replicate, rather, they go through a process of conformational change.: That same article goes on to use the word replication multiple times. What is know in that these misfolded proteins are self-propagating. One misfolded prion will induce other proteins to misfold. Think of this as a bad character inducing your child to rob a bank. They have been successful in propagating new thief, but did not replicate a new human.

The prions don't degrade or break down like traditional organic material, allowing for accumulation. It is the accumulation of the prions (misfolded proteins) that disrupt normal cellular function, leading to cell damage and ultimately death. However, not all accumulate. Those are the ones that shed, then are taken up by healthy hosts.

Since prions do not have RNA/DNA they are dependent on cellular metabolites from the host to replicate. Prions act like a template (a bad one) that tells proteins to misfold, thus affecting the ability of those proteins to support the host.

 

[Angus 1895]

The article stated there is a vaccine.

Mandate you gotta get the prion jab before you can buy a deer tag.

Job done!

 

[Telemark]

The Ecology of Prions - PMC

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) affects cervids and is the only known prion disease readily transmitted among free-ranging wild animal populations in nature. The increasing spread and prevalence of CWD among cervid populations threaten the survival of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This paper is from 2017, but is still a pretty good review of what we know about prions and how they spread in the environment.

It is my understanding that it is the mis-folded proteins that cause prions to accumulate in the brains and that the mis-folding is a chain reaction that takes years in animals. They have definitely detected the prions in deer feces. They have even detected them in coyote and racoon feces. It is also understood that plants can take up the prions, potentially aiding in transmission. In the paper linked above, they cite a number of studies that have looked into how long the prions causing CWD persist in the environment. It looks like it can persist for decades in certain types of clays, but naturally breaks down over time.

Interesting article. It seems to suggest that removing an infected population from an area is the best way to slow or stop the spread of the prions. It doesn't help to just kill the deer, they have to be physically removed from the area and incinerated. If this is followed (especially in bedding areas) by burning grasses and administering microbes that can break down the prions, after a year or two, the concentration of prions in the environment might be low enough that it won't infect deer that move into the area.

Presumably, all salt and mineral sites would need to be removed as well, and any kind of baiting, feeding, or mineral supplement would need to be banned for an extended period of time.

I would like to read any studies about how effective the eradication attempts have been in the US and Norway. I know the Norwegians wiped out a few reindeer herds, but I never did hear any follow-up from it.

 

[homerj]

Last I knew the only way to destroy a prion was to incinerate at 1200 degrees?

 

[BenA]

There was some research from a girl at University of Wyoming who is now with the Wildlife Society who had results showing CWD prions were eradicated by passing through the digestive system of bobcats. Another showed they could be destroyed in mountain lions. I don't know if they're still looking at how that could occur or if it could be replicated by other means.

 

[Bill]

Presumably, all salt and mineral sites would need to be removed as well, and any kind of baiting, feeding, or mineral supplement would need to be banned for an extended period of time.

Don’t forget you also have to teach the deer not use licking branches or make communal scrapes or all the other banned stuff won’t really work.

 

[356]

Don’t forget you also have to teach the deer not use licking branches or make communal scrapes or all the other banned stuff won’t really work.

The current theory is licking branches generally don't provide the concentrations needed to trigger the disease. Communal scapes may over time. The highest concentrations are in places such as feeders and salt licks. The bottom line is this disease is bad. Most outbreaks have been in areas with high feeder concentrations (legal or illegal) and near areas with captive deer facilities.

Until we have a cure, I may go into business with Bill selling these to landowners:

 

[Bill]

The current theory is licking branches generally don't provide the concentrations needed to trigger the disease.

Sorry that made me think back to when the concentrations of Covid were acceptable at the liquor store but not church.

 

[homerj]

Sorry that made think back to when the concentrations of Covid were acceptable at the liquor store but not church.

Or when it was OK to get groceries at Walmart with hundreds of other people while not being able to get a burger at any local place with maybe a few other patrons present.

 

[BenA]

We make management decisions on which deer to shoot, which deer to let live, which plants to kill, which to grow. Why shouldn't we try to manage the spread of a disease? If we "let nature take its course" and take a hands off approach, doesn't that go against what we're all trying to do as habitat and deer managers? We don't do that on our own properties. We don't take a hands off approach. We are very hands on. We kill stuff we don't want spreading all the time. There's thread after thread of how do we deal with this or that. Why do some people want to treat CWD any different from a management perspective?

 

[Mortenson]

Because no one can agree? See the thread on killing Canada thistle for an example.

Illinois sniped deer and rates went up. How much money should be spent on sniping deer? Last year ehd sniped our deer more efficiently than govt can. Nature healed itself.

 

[swat1018]

I am a veterinarian, I worked in population medicine for about a decade. It was poultry, dairy cattle, rainbow trout.

I often try to explain the absurdity of hoarding populations with an analogy of a fisherman…..I.E. grumpy old men.

If you got a week off and are going to use live minnows as bait do you:

A. Buy three weeks worth because it might be really good.

B. Buy a weeks worth but 12 dozen is a tight fit in my bucket.

C. Buy no more than can stay alive in the minnow bucket.

Hoarding deer, finding ways to congregate them, yarding them, will cause disease/ mortality.

Yea, so they're Johnny on the spot with the CWD problem, that has no cure. But, raccoons are reeking havoc on turkey, quail, and duck populations and there are still closed seasons on them that haven't changed for years in most cases. Even with zero demand for raccoon pelts, seasons here in Indiana haven't changed since my youth.

 

[swat1018]

Don’t forget you also have to teach the deer not use licking branches or make communal scrapes or all the other banned stuff won’t really work.

Is that common sense? First you have to pack up all of your deer and move them so you can scorch the entire area.

 

[homerj]

We make management decisions on which deer to shoot, which deer to let live, which plants to kill, which to grow. Why shouldn't we try to manage the spread of a disease? If we "let nature take its course" and take a hands off approach, doesn't that go against what we're all trying to do as habitat and deer managers? We don't do that on our own properties. We don't take a hands off approach. We are very hands on. We kill stuff we don't want spreading all the time. There's thread after thread of how do we deal with this or that. Why do some people want to treat CWD any different from a management perspective?

Because we've killed the heck of herds in a number of states for no reason?

 

[Telemark]

Don’t forget you also have to teach the deer not use licking branches or make communal scrapes or all the other banned stuff won’t really work.

Actually, that's a good point. It would probably be a good idea to replace the soil from communal scrapes in the area. They might open them back up, but at least they won't contain contaminated soil.