When and What after Grow Tubes?

[Belo]

I'm on year 2 of using grow tubes to plant persimmons, chestnuts and oaks. Most have done well with basic weed maintenance and spraying. I skipped weed mats as I only have about 15 or so total.

Last year I had deer eat the top off one of my chestnuts and this year found a new broken branch on a 2nd year oak that is poking through. At what point do you take the tube off? I would probably cage after the tube is off, but looking for recommendations. I've attached some pics below of trees that are in year 2, a few that are in year 1 as well as a chestnut that was planted from pots and caged.

 

[Catscratch]

I'd say it's time to cage them. Be careful if you have much wind. The top wire of the cage will rub the bark off those whips if they blow around much and aren't staked.

 

[ksJoe]

I was hoping to leave tubes on to discourage rubbing, thinking the trees would grow out the top (above easy reach of the deer) and then just grow fine. Does this not work?

 

[T-Max]

I have caged trees with the tubes still on. They did fine for me. The trunk rubbing on the top of the cage did get me on a few like Cat said.

 

[The Fishman]

It really is dependent on each individual tree as far as when to remove the tube. Seedlings can be the same height out of the tube but have vastly different calipers. One may be able to support itself fine, while the same height seedling next to it falls over. If the tree is out of the cage by several feet and can support itself, cage it. If it cannot support itself, leave the tube on it until it can support itself. To me, it is too hard to support a small diameter tree in a cage without it getting damaged even if the seedling is staked.

 

[rocksnstumps]

After a tube has done its job with accelerated growth, I usually cut them off. Slitting tube lengthwise they tend to curl up tightly. I will recycle these into tree supports inside the cage I add when the tree is whippy without help.

 

[KY wild]

I use 5 foot tubes which keeps my deer from eating off the top, I then keep them cleaned inside and first branches are at 5 feet. Then I leave the tube on until I feel a buck will not rub the tree, after about 7 years or so I need to loosen it to the point that it no longer touches itself but still keeps away rubbing. I have tubes at about 9 years with large trees and it is only thing I do. I never cage these trees, I do not have bears and the tube does everything else for me that I need. I really don't understand why you would replace the tube with a cage, I wish others on here would explain why you need all the cost and trouble of replacing tubes with cages. Tubes forever on my land, what am I missing?

 

[rocksnstumps]

Those up north with harsh winters and lots of snow have more rodent issues. I try to use the largest dia tubes at the start and that extra space makes "bridging" material mouse house building limited. As the trunk diameter grows they can pack more crap in there to suspend their nest above the ground/snow line. Also have to do yearly maintenance like removing leaves that build up in bottom or the little side shoots that happen in a tube. You kinda get busy and skip maintenance for several yrs and likely even with window screen around trunk inside tube the little critter bas-turds will piss you off. Once tubes are removed willful neglect doesn't come back to bite you as often.

Like tubes for quick growth and get the leader way above browse height. The cages I add later are minimal dia for rub protection so still not much dollars if any more because only cage from the start needs to be at least 2x bigger to protect and no accelerated growth makes that top just too tempting for many growing seasons.

Edit: I also like using 5 ft tubes but find on a sidehill they can stand on the uphill side and still munch the top. At least they really try on desirable fruit trees and deep snow makes it even easier

 

[bigboreblr]

See lots of failed tube trees driving around in NY. Not a big fan of them. IF watering is an issue, the ones that make it, cage them.

 

[rocksnstumps]

^^^ I see many failed tree tube attempts on public lands. They have a limited budget and typically have only 4 ft tubes because cheaper and ongoing maintenance is not budgeted. Using 4 ft tubes is likely to fail in a high deer pop area. No tube maintenance after 1st year of planting is also likely to cause failure if winter rodent activity/tree girdling is high

But doing big cages is more material and labor costs and have only seen that in very small plantings of less than a couple dozen trees. Where they plant from 50 - 500 trees it's always tubes.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Here in Pa., we use aluminum window screen for rodent protection on the trunks, 5 ft. tall concrete re-mesh for cages of about 4 ft. diameter, and weed fabric / limestone screenings for keeping weeds down. Less weeds = more nutrients for tree growth. Big cages because we have bears .... and any cage deterrence at all is still a big help in the long run.

We don't use grow tubes on any of our trees ...... bears again. No help at all.

 

[bigboreblr]

An issue I am starting to see in prime deer reas is rubbing by bucks.

My for now setup is 10ft of 4 ft tall 2x4 mesh. Once the trees can handle browsing at 5ft or so levels in a year or two more, I am going down to 5ft of 2x4 4ft tall mesh. I will be putting 3 or 4 2x2 wood on the inside. Sometimes the deer rub through the cage.

I use window screen too, just be careful tht thy don't girdle the tree when mature. Lift up and reseat every other year or each year.

I have done some 1/4" square fencing to protect from rabbit n voles. Don't even sink them into the ground. I put stone chips around the base of the tree to prevent voles from digging. Keeping weeds in check is more improtant for keeping voles out of your tree. Give them a place to hide, they foud a place to eat......

 

[ksJoe]

This was my first year using tree tubes. After planting and installing the tube, I put a couple inches of mulch down. Its osage orange mulch (tough, prickly, tight packing). We have a lot of rodents here, so I'm hoping the mulch is enough to keep the rodents from digging in.

A couple years ago there was a tornado in town and the city still has a huge pile of osage orange mulch from the tornado cleanup. Its free for residents to come get. I drop the tailgate and back to the pickup until the tailgate touches. Then climb the pile and use a shovel up top to send it tumbling down into the truck bed.

 

[gurgalunas]

I keep tubes on my trees until the trunks outgrown the tube diameter. Then I'll switch to a welded wire cage that I have leftover from growing too many tomatoes. The cage isnt that much protection, but it would tangle a bucks antlers enough to annoy him and make him pick another tree to rub.

I don't like putting cages on smaller trees because I don't like pruning branches that grow thru the wire.

 

[bwoods11]

I will cut tubes back about a foot and cage the good trees.

 

[Angus 1895]

I got a few pet deer around it got to nipping off these maple trees this week. Had to cage them up.

 

[SwampCat]

I am just the opposite, I cage my young trees and trunk protectors on the older trees

 

[Electrodigical]

I keep reading these threads hoping for a better answer. I've been thinking about caging a couple of the wild apple tree saplings to see if that would give them a boost, but there's no way to drive stakes in the ground. Not the normal ones anyway. I'd have to use big steel wrecking bars and drive them in with a 10lb sledge. And then... maybe.

Were I doing this at home and had a similar problem, I'd weld a round cage with a base out of rebar-mesh. But there's no way to do that and get them where I need them. I could use an old car tire and bolt snow stake around the outside of them. Also a lot to haul 300 miles and the idea of tires out in the woods bugs me. Blue barrels? Much the same problem.

 

[omicron1792]

Here in south not near the problem of deer eating the trees. So no cages.

So when tree is several feet above the tube I just remove the stake and leave the tube on. My tubes are perforated so they will split off on their own when trunk is thick enough.

The trees are spindly when I use a tree tube. So the tube provides a little structure but starts to let the trunk toughen up with wind and movement more.

It also helps prevent buck rubbing. But there are so many tree here that that is not a big problem either unless a cedar. And I just plant so many of those I don’t use grow tubes.