What happens when you prune the tip of a long branch

[Charman03]

When you cut back a long branch on your younger trees what happens? Does it branch out from there or just keep growing out?

 

[Turkey Creek]

Are asking if other buds will break at the cut area and make a forked or "chicken foot" branch? If so then yes in most cases.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

I prune with the bud on the outside of the branch so it grows outward not inward

 

[Charman03]

Is it best to just let the central leader go then?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I do what Aero said he does (post #3) - prune to a bud on the outside of a long branch. Branches I've done this to have pushed new, outward growth and kept the branch from growing more upward.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Is it best to just let the central leader go then?

I want to add onto this question. Do you just allow the central leader to keep upward growth? Are you suppose to trim to prevent them from getting too tall? I would assume different rootstocks may bring different answers? Mine are full size, because I have bears. My 4 year old trees are 15-20 feet tall. The apple are for wildlife, not for my picking.

 

[chickenlittle]

I did more heading cuts last year which stimulates growth. This year I used more "bench cuts" or "thinning cuts" that the guys teaching the pruning class at Cummins showed. Instead of pruning back to a bud (heading cut), I pruned back to a weak branch coming the bottom of the limb (bench cut). This photo shows several cuts and expected growth. The bench cut is the bottom one. I was also thinking about how much 2 year old wood to have next year for fruiting as the trees start to transition from growth to fruiting.
From https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/bitstream/handle/10919/47753/VCE422_021.pdf

 

[cavey]

"experience is something you acquire just after you need it".
Saw this while looking up info on pruning methods -- nicking and notching.... had to laugh/cry because I'm there right now.

I have a number of trees I didn't head back enough times while younger and now they are lacking scaffold branches... Im getting better at not being so impressed by rapid central leader growth. I still cringe when I cut it back, but yesterday while pruning I learned that lesson again while looking at some of my beautiful "tall" trees with limited scaffold branches.

That would be another lesson to share - don't be afraid to be aggressive with your young trees. Now how to do it right?,,, ewww aahhhh yaa...... ok, Hmmmmm........Im heading out to the orchard now wish me luck

 

[chickenlittle]

Where you want scaffold branches, take a knife and score above a bud on the leader. Cut through the bark and cambium. This may stimulate the bud to push and become a branch.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Cavey - Try scoring the central leader just above some buds. Maya gave me some advice on how to do it, and there are You-tube videos out there showing the process. If you score above a bud, the bud will push new growth and form a new limb. You can more or less "place" the new limbs where you want them.

Chickenlittle just posted right ahead of me. ^^^^^^^ He said the same thing.

 

[swat1018]

Cavey - Try scoring the central leader just above some buds. Maya gave me some advice on how to do it, and there are You-tube videos out there showing the process. If you score above a bud, the bud will push new growth and form a new limb. You can more or less "place" the new limbs where you want them.

Chickenlittle just posted right ahead of me. ^^^^^^^ He said the same thing.

I learned that here from the Apple guys. Did it last year and it worked perfectly to fill in a few spots I wanted limbs.

 

[cavey]

I was looking up info on doing the same and was a tiny bit aware of the notching and nicking...just had never done it and wanted to look up how long of a notch to put in, how close to the bud, how many could be done on one tree (is 3 or 4 to many? would it act like a girth??)...

The problem is that a couple of the trees had upper sections of the trunks that were pretty bare of bud sites and the ones that were there appeared to be older maybe dormant/non functional??. These are trees going into what Im guessing is their 6 or 7th leafing this years so they are not really all that young. I headed back the trees my first year and it looked like they had been headed back prior to that so there are lower scaffolds below 5 - 5 1/2 feet from there to about 6 1/2 - 7 feet maybe a bit more there is nothing and above that I have some smaller scaffold branching started.

I did the cuts above the buds I could find - they just don't look like they will do much. Fingers crossed that they will pop out with some growth. It is one of those deals where they escaped my attention the prior years and now I'm back peddling to fix something that should have been obvious. I have got to break the habit of just planting them and letting them grow. That fast leader growth always gives me tunnel vision - I just see a tall beautiful tree and dont have the heart to cut it back.
So again thanks for the added advise - this site had been a godsend of info and has helped immensely.

 

[Charman03]

This thread is good, lots of info. Knowing how a tree reacts to certain cuts makes the pruning task much easier because you know what the tree will want to do.

 

[Charman03]

Cavey - Try scoring the central leader just above some buds. Maya gave me some advice on how to do it, and there are You-tube videos out there showing the process. If you score above a bud, the bud will push new growth and form a new limb. You can more or less "place" the new limbs where you want them.

Chickenlittle just posted right ahead of me. ^^^^^^^ He said the same thing.

When scoring for new limb growth, do you ring the entire branch or just one side?

 

[WTNUT]

"experience is something you acquire just after you need it".
Saw this while looking up info on pruning methods -- nicking and notching.... had to laugh/cry because I'm there right now.

I have a number of trees I didn't head back enough times while younger and now they are lacking scaffold branches... Im getting better at not being so impressed by rapid central leader growth. I still cringe when I cut it back, but yesterday while pruning I learned that lesson again while looking at some of my beautiful "tall" trees with limited scaffold branches.

That would be another lesson to share - don't be afraid to be aggressive with your young trees. Now how to do it right?,,, ewww aahhhh yaa...... ok, Hmmmmm........Im heading out to the orchard now wish me luck

This is so true! I have been there! The one that hit me the hardest during a time period when I was afraid to prune enough. Someone said keep in mind the ultimate goal is to grow apples, not fire wood!
We each have different styles. I don’t do as many heading cuts as I once did. I do a LOT of training on young trees to keep those laterals down, and not growing upright. I use to thin to an outward growing bud when I didn’t train as much. Not days I have 4-6 laterals on my first row of laterals then maybe 4 on the next row, and maybe a row or two of three then just 2 and 1 as we go up. It really is like a Christmas tree approach AND I DON’T HAVE MANY SCAFFOLDS COMING OFF THE LATERALS UNTIL THEY GET TO THE LAST THIRD OF THE LATERAL. I am not sure that is the best approach, but for a low maintenance orchard (if there is such a thing) it gives me a nice amount of large fruit on the ends of the laterals and a very open tree. Thus size and color are usually pretty good.


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[Bowsnbucks]

Charman - I followed what Maya told me in a few P.M.'s. All I do is take a sharp knife - I use a utility knife with a new blade - and about 1/4" above a bud, I just push inward with my thumb.You can feel a little "pop" or "snap" as the knife breaks through the cambium. I don't "ring" or circle the leader with the knife. Once I feel the pop - that's it - I stop right there. No sawing back & forth. You don't cut a notch out of the leader. It's just a straight-in push with the knife, just to make a slit. This method has worked and produced new limbs for me. You can use bud locations on the leader to stimulate new limbs where you want them.

 

[Charman03]

This is so true! I have been there! The one that hit me the hardest during a time period when I was afraid to prune enough. Someone said keep in mind the ultimate goal is to grow apples, not fire wood!
We each have different styles. I don’t do as many heading cuts as I once did. I do a LOT of training on young trees to keep those laterals down, and not growing upright. I use to thin to an outward growing bud when I didn’t train as much. Not days I have 4-6 laterals on my first row of laterals then maybe 4 on the next row, and maybe a row or two of three then just 2 and 1 as we go up. It really is like a Christmas tree approach AND I DON’T HAVE MANY SCAFFOLDS COMING OFF THE LATERALS UNTIL THEY GET TO THE LAST THIRD OF THE LATERAL. I am not sure that is the best approach, but for a low maintenance orchard (if there is such a thing) it gives me a nice amount of large fruit on the ends of the laterals and a very open tree. Thus size and color are usually pretty good.


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How do you train your laterals? String tied to a heavy rock to pull them down?

 

[Charman03]

Charman - I followed what Maya told me in a few P.M.'s. All I do is take a sharp knife - I use a utility knife with a new blade - and about 1/4" above a bud, I just push inward with my thumb.You can feel a little "pop" or "snap" as the knife breaks through the cambium. I don't "ring" or circle the leader with the knife. Once I feel the pop - that's it - I stop right there. No sawing back & forth. You don't cut a notch out of the leader. It's just a straight-in push with the knife, just to make a slit. This method has worked and produced new limbs for me. You can use bud locations on the leader to stimulate new limbs where you want them.

Thanks. That's what I was picturing

 

[WTNUT]

This is so true! I have been there! The one that hit me the hardest during a time period when I was afraid to prune enough. Someone said keep in mind the ultimate goal is to grow apples, not fire wood!
We each have different styles. I don’t do as many heading cuts as I once did. I do a LOT of training on young trees to keep those laterals down, and not growing upright. I use to thin to an outward growing bud when I didn’t train as much. Not days I have 4-6 laterals on my first row of laterals then maybe 4 on the next row, and maybe a row or two of three then just 2 and 1 as we go up. It really is like a Christmas tree approach AND I DON’T HAVE MANY SCAFFOLDS COMING OFF THE LATERALS UNTIL THEY GET TO THE LAST THIRD OF THE LATERAL. I am not sure that is the best approach, but for a low maintenance orchard (if there is such a thing) it gives me a nice amount of large fruit on the ends of the laterals and a very open tree. Thus size and color are usually pretty good.


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How do you train your laterals? String tied to a heavy rock to pull them down?

No I get a roll of 14 gauge wire at Tractor Supply and pull them down and tie them off to the cage that protects the tree. The key is to start when they are weak and small and can be pulled down.


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[Northbound]

How do you train your laterals? String tied to a heavy rock to pull them down?

I really like clothes pins as a tool for training branches. Sometimes as a prop from branch to trunk, also just as weights on branches