TSI and stump heights.

[Livesintrees]

Just wondering for those who have property in a TSI program, how high or low do you leave your cut stumps? Last year I cut em off low. I know there’s no real right answer but I may leave them waist high or better this year when the saw comes out. Is one better or worse for promoting stump sprouts and suckers?

 

[MickT]

Coppicing usually isn’t considered TSI per se but I cut them at a comfortable height ( usually thigh high) when I’m after browse.


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[WNY8N]

When we do tsi we just hinge cut them at around 3ft. I prefer that over just dropping them.

 

[Livesintrees]

I’m required to remove “x” amount in firewood each year so I do hinge some. But the ones I completely drop are hauled out for firewood and the tops are used to create brush piles

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Our loggers cut the trees off about 8" above ground level and we got lots of stump sprouts. Without caging those stumps, our deer chewed them off to ground level again. But the stumps we caged, the stump sprouts grew 3' to 4' in the first season. Maple stump sprouts grow faster than oak sprouts.

 

[Tap]

A lot depends on the species and deer density. If it's a desired browse species with high DPSM, then a low cut will most likely be browsed to death.
A high cut will usually produce higher sprouts that are out of the reach of deer.
I guess it depends on your goals. I like a higher cut. It instantly puts some browse within reach but it also stands a better chance of long-term survival. I have lots of elms (for example) that if they were cut low, they would be eaten to death after a couple years. But my higher cut elm have been re-hinged multiple times. Done right, a hinged tree can be cut again and again. Cut low, and it's a short-term deal. But then again, it depends on your goals. Maybe in your case you want to open-up the understory and remove competition?? If you want faster maturing trees for future mast or timber, then you don't want a lot of stem count so removal of undesirable species or individuals lessens competition for the "good" ones. Competition isn't just for available light. Competition among plants is also for soil nutrients and moisture. What's you goals?

 

[Livesintrees]

A lot depends on the species and deer density. If it's a desired browse species with high DPSM, then a low cut will most likely be browsed to death.
A high cut will usually produce higher sprouts that are out of the reach of deer.
I guess it depends on your goals. I like a higher cut. It instantly puts some browse within reach but it also stands a better chance of long-term survival. I have lots of elms (for example) that if they were cut low, they would be eaten to death after a couple years. But my higher cut elm have been re-hinged multiple times. Done right, a hinged tree can be cut again and again. Cut low, and it's a short-term deal. But then again, it depends on your goals. Maybe in your case you want to open-up the understory and remove competition?? If you want faster maturing trees for future mast or timber, then you don't want a lot of stem count so removal of undesirable species or individuals lessens competition for the "good" ones. Competition isn't just for available light. Competition among plants is also for soil nutrients and moisture. What's you goals?

My goals are remove for TSI as per forestor recommendations. But also improve the cover as I hit these areas. So sprouting is desired

 

[Boll Weevil]

The vast majority of my TSI work is focused on long term merchantable timber production vs. pure habitat improvement (though in many cases both are achieved). Pre-commercial thinning little stuff (<4") is left at knee height...can fly through an area pretty quick and in a few years they will have fallen over. For the most part, felling anything larger the stumps are left flush with the ground.

 

[JFK52]

Tap, do you have any problems with Dutch elm disease? I have smaller elms on my 2 acres home lot in Columbia county WI and they are all dying from Dutch elm disease. It just seems to find the few trees that are left and every year more and more of them drop dead. I am trying to remove them before the Dutch elm disease gets them.

 

[Tap]

Tap, do you have any problems with Dutch elm disease? I have smaller elms on my 2 acres home lot in Columbia county WI and they are all dying from Dutch elm disease. It just seems to find the few trees that are left and every year more and more of them drop dead. I am trying to remove them before the Dutch elm disease gets them.

I wouldn't know how to identify Dutch Elm Disease. I do know that I have some Elm that are over 12" DB, and I have quite a few that have been hinged 3 times...I hinged them once, then hinged new growth after a few years, and re-hinged after another few years.
I don't know if our area has any of the huge elm that existed before Dutch disease struck, but Elm up to 16"-18" are pretty common around here.

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[ruskbucks]

My forester wrote in the contract that all stumps had to be left at no higher than 12" off the ground. I'm not sure the reason, but there must be something to it.

 

[MickT]

My forester wrote in the contract that all stumps had to be left at no higher than 12" off the ground. I'm not sure the reason, but there must be something to it.

Maybe to make it harder to be cleared? Tall stumps are good for leverage to push them out.


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[bigbendmarine]

A lot depends on the species and deer density. If it's a desired browse species with high DPSM, then a low cut will most likely be browsed to death. A high cut will usually produce higher sprouts that are out of the reach of deer.

Tap, if you see this (and also welcome feedback from any other members) exactly how tall is a "high cut" that gives you browse but also enough height to prevent being browsed to death? I want to create some "mineral stumps" by coppicing, but with a ton of tasks already needing my attention just don't want to take on caging them

I'm definitely going to do some focused cutting in the next few months. For safety and convenience sake I'll likely focus on trees about 5" in diameter. I've got a ton of understory oaks growing under mature oaks in my woods as well as smaller oaks growing around field edges that fit the bill, so am going to focus on them in a few targeted spots. Likely cut a few maples, cherry, hickory, and sweetgums around the property as well just to see what / if any level of browse they get (I already see fair amount of browse on low branches of oaks and cherry on my place).

Honestly, for this first go round I won't cry if I lose the trunks I cut but would prefer to cut at some optimal height that gives both browse and the ability to cut again a few years later.

 

[bigbendmarine]

And with the caveat that this is NOT a chart for Florida, I did find this browse preferene chart from an Indiana study interesting... appreciating regional preferences DO vary, if nothing else it speaks to oak being pretty high on the all-around general list.

 

[Tap]

A lot depends on the species and deer density. If it's a desired browse species with high DPSM, then a low cut will most likely be browsed to death. A high cut will usually produce higher sprouts that are out of the reach of deer.

Tap, if you see this (and also welcome feedback from any other members) exactly how tall is a "high cut" that gives you browse but also enough height to prevent being browsed to death? I want to create some "mineral stumps" by coppicing, but with a ton of tasks already needing my attention just don't want to take on caging them

I'm definitely going to do some focused cutting in the next few months. For safety and convenience sake I'll likely focus on trees about 5" in diameter. I've got a ton of understory oaks growing under mature oaks in my woods as well as smaller oaks growing around field edges that fit the bill, so am going to focus on them in a few targeted spots. Likely cut a few maples, cherry, hickory, and sweetgums around the property as well just to see what / if any level of browse they get (I already see fair amount of browse on low branches of oaks and cherry on my place).

Honestly, for this first go round I won't cry if I lose the trunks I cut but would prefer to cut at some optimal height that gives both browse and the ability to cut again a few years later.

I'd say that I tend to cut around 5 foot but I do look at the trunk before I cut and I may adjust the height if I see a characteristic that may come into play that could effect survival...sucker bud, existing branch on a critical side of the tree, etc.
It really helps if you can support the trunk on the previous cut. Try not to pinch the cambium beyond 90 degrees. The higher you cut the more pinch you will have, unless you support that tree on the previous tree or some other structure.

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[Tap]

A lot depends on the species and deer density. If it's a desired browse species with high DPSM, then a low cut will most likely be browsed to death. A high cut will usually produce higher sprouts that are out of the reach of deer.

Tap, if you see this (and also welcome feedback from any other members) exactly how tall is a "high cut" that gives you browse but also enough height to prevent being browsed to death? I want to create some "mineral stumps" by coppicing, but with a ton of tasks already needing my attention just don't want to take on caging them

I'm definitely going to do some focused cutting in the next few months. For safety and convenience sake I'll likely focus on trees about 5" in diameter. I've got a ton of understory oaks growing under mature oaks in my woods as well as smaller oaks growing around field edges that fit the bill, so am going to focus on them in a few targeted spots. Likely cut a few maples, cherry, hickory, and sweetgums around the property as well just to see what / if any level of browse they get (I already see fair amount of browse on low branches of oaks and cherry on my place).

Honestly, for this first go round I won't cry if I lose the trunks I cut but would prefer to cut at some optimal height that gives both browse and the ability to cut again a few years later.

Here is an example of an elm cut. If I would have cut it low, it would have been eaten to death.
It now needs the new growth cut.

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[bigbendmarine]

Here is an example of an elm cut. If I would have cut it low, it would have been eaten to death.

Tap, just to be 100% sure I follow, the elm in the picture was coppiced (or pollared since bit high) or hinge cut? From the look of the growth I'm guessing hinge?

 

[Tap]

Here is an example of an elm cut. If I would have cut it low, it would have been eaten to death.

Tap, just to be 100% sure I follow, the elm in the picture was coppiced (or pollared since bit high) or hinge cut? From the look of the growth I'm guessing hinge?

Hinge cut. The secondary growth needs hinged now. Some trees may actually get hinged a 3rd time.

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