Topworking Late

[deepsleep]

I used the toilet ring wax this year for my limb grafting and was very pleased with the results. Easier and a lot less messy than the Treekote.

I'm covered from head to toe with treekote. As long as it is okay to fill the gaps with it, I'm optimistic about my grafts. The sap wasn't flowing as vigorously this afternoon so that made things easier. I probably grafted 40 trees today. I only did a few cleft grafts on some of the smaller crabapples and wasn't as pleased with how those turned out. In the end, I left several smaller crabs ungrafted to either T-bud later or bark graft when they get bigger. I'll post some pictures when I get home. Thanks again for everybody's help. You guys are awesome. Tomorrow I get to auger 54 holes to plant my seedling chestnuts.

 

[deepsleep]

Fast forward a week. Several of the scions I grafted have swollen buds and are starting to leaf out. I know this can happen with failed grafts but it at least makes me confident my scions were viable. How soon can I call a graft a success? I'm assuming maybe at the 2 week mark?

 

[deepsleep]

Congrats Deepsleep. I'd say 7-8 weeks and you'll be set.

On another note I dropped a white birch today for firewood for my inlaws. When I was splitting it up all it took was one whack and the complete section of bark would come off. The wood was slick on the inside and full of moisture. I guess the bark was slipping on the birch now. I could see how it would be easy to cut a slot pop a graft scion down in there. Must be the same with apples.

I can't wait 7-8 weeks! I'm sure other first time grafters know the feeling. The grafting was super easy and results looked like the videos/photos I've seen. I can't see any reason the wouldn't work. I even did a couple W&T which took a few tries but looked great when done. The thing that was weird was hacking off tree tops that were full of blossoms after anxiously awaiting blossoms on said trees. When I get home later today I will try to post pics.

 

[deepsleep]

Well, I made it back. Been working too much to post. Overall, managed to topwork 50+ trees, maybe closer to 100. I had limited varieties of scions (about 15 or 20) and want to add some varieties I don't have yet (e.g. Golden Russet), so I left some of my crabs ungrafted. Most of what I grafted were Coldstream crabs planted in '10/'11 which had pea-sized fruit. The fact most are now bearing heavily made it a little weird to cut the tops off. Here is a typical tree



Off goes the top



On go some Liberty scions



Same tree right before I left (9 days)

 

[deepsleep]

Here are the B118 rootstock I received from Grandpa's. I ordered from them because they were the only B118s left that I know of. Although I know little about how they are supposed to look, I have little doubt they will thrive as the root systems were great. I planted 25 on a new property, put on window screen, lumite, and a 6 foot combitube. I will either t-bud in August if I can get there, or topwork next spring.

 

[deepsleep]

Speaking of t-buds, I had some success this year! I also made some observations--All of my attempts on small rootstock were successful. Once the trees got thumb-sized or so, success went way down. I was thrilled I could propagate the swamp crab that I found 18 months ago. Here it is growing away.



Here is the bud source



I don't have all the specifics on the tree yet, but what I do know is that it is growing in a low area, has an apple the size of chestnut crab, and is growing next to a large cedar. The foliage looks clean. I tried the apple in late October and it was very crisp, sweet, and slightly tannic. I think it may end up being a good apple for both deer and cider.

 

[deepsleep]

A few more since I'm on a roll (I guess).

F Querina from ACN on M7 starting 5th leaf immediately after pruning



Same tree last week



I have a few Galarinas and Querinas on M7 from ACN that are starting 5th leaf. The Querinas have had a few apples on them the last couple of years, the Galarinas, none. That all changed this year as both seem to be loaded. This is one of those Galarinas with another behind it followed by a couple Querinas.



Here's a Chesnut on M7 from Wallace Woodstock planted '11 so starting 5th leaf.

 

[buckvelvet]

Here's a Chesnut on M7 from Wallace Woodstock planted '11 so starting 5th leaf.

Curious what makes your think its on m7? Reason I ask is I planted a Chesnut crab from them last year, they don't advertise roostock they use nor did they respond to my inquiring about what they used (after the fact). My tree is growing great just curious how you found out?

Thanks!

 

[deepsleep]

I called W-W at the time and got some kid who had no idea. I think they let me talk to another guy who said he thought they were on M7 but wasn't positive. It also seems like someone on here (Stu maybe?) found out they were on M7. On the other hand, I may have imagined all of this. They sure look/act like M7 so far though.

 

[jaximus]

i found an old thread about wallace woodstock. its where i get my trees also.

http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/wallace-woodstock-nursery-neillsville-wi.338/page-2

LessRice (forum member) posted: "I talked to them last year and most of their semi-dwarf is on M7 from Bailey's. They said if you special order they can get B118."

 

[buckvelvet]

Oh ok nice, thanks for helping me out w/ the info. I can't wait to try my chesnut crab as these MN guys love 'em.

 

[Rally1148]

I just put one on this year! It'll be my new leader if it takes, so hopefully it'll be putting out some apples in a few years!

Oh ok nice, thanks for helping me out w/ the info. I can't wait to try my chesnut crab as these MN guys love 'em.

 

[deepsleep]

Update....Thanks to the knowledge and experience of many of the members here, I am excited to report apparent success. Out of all the topworked scions (200 maybe?) we have only found 1 that did not take. To say I am shocked is an understatement. Despite the warnings from the crowds here, I have not staked any of them, and lost a t-bud to a bird landing. Fortunately, I have a second t-bud a few inches below it. Now the million dollar question, when do I cut the grafting tape?

 

[Rally1148]

Update....Thanks to the knowledge and experience of many of the members here, I am excited to report apparent success. Out of all the topworked scions (200 maybe?) we have only found 1 that did not take. To say I am shocked is an understatement. Despite the warnings from the crowds here, I have not staked any of them, and lost a t-bud to a bird landing. Fortunately, I have a second t-bud a few inches below it. Now the million dollar question, when do I cut the grafting tape?

I was told by a member of our local fruit and nut growing association to just slit the tape, don't try to remove it. But I'd agree, mid June sounded about right from what I was told.

 

[Rally1148]

That's a good idea too!! Just make sure to slit it in an area not over the grafts

Exactly! I'm planning on doing it between each of the scions so that they're free'd up on each side. I think that within the year the tape will fall off. I was told that the biggest thing was to make sure the pressure was relieved moderately early.

 

[deepsleep]

I used 1" white poly tape from A.M. Leonard. Some of them I put Geshell's grafting wax around the base of the scions to seal any gaps and then covered all with a liberal covering of Treekote. The first half, the grafting wax hadn't showed up yet so I went straight treekote, which seemed to work fine. I made sure I wrapped everything very tight, which the poly tape allowed me to do. It was like flagging tape, but seemed a bit heavier. I have planned to make a single cut down to the bark in late July/Early Aug. That would be 90 days as I grafted May 9/10/11 or so. Is that too long?

 

[Rally1148]

I used 1" white poly tape from A.M. Leonard. Some of them I put Geshell's grafting wax around the base of the scions to seal any gaps and then covered all with a liberal covering of Treekote. The first half, the grafting wax hadn't showed up yet so I went straight treekote, which seemed to work fine. I made sure I wrapped everything very tight, which the poly tape allowed me to do. It was like flagging tape, but seemed a bit heavier. I have planned to make a single cut down to the bark in late July/Early Aug. That would be 90 days as I grafted May 9/10/11 or so. Is that too long?

From what I've gathered (experts, correct me if I'm wrong) the biggest thing is how stretchy the tape is. If it's stretchy enough to not girdle the tree. As far as how much stretchiness is adequate, I don't know!

 

[deepsleep]

From what I've gathered (experts, correct me if I'm wrong) the biggest thing is how stretchy the tape is. If it's stretchy enough to not girdle the tree. As far as how much stretchiness is adequate, I don't know!

That is my concern--I really pulled the tape tight, which I believe helped my success rate tremendously, but I think that took most of the stretch out of the tape. I've just heard horror stories of guys removing tape too early. Guess I'll have to cut some earlier and see what they look like.

 

[Rally1148]

That is my concern--I really pulled the tape tight, which I believe helped my success rate tremendously, but I think that took most of the stretch out of the tape. I've just heard horror stories of guys removing tape too early. Guess I'll have to cut some earlier and see what they look like.

I would think (in my completely inexperienced and nonprofessional opinion) that you'll be fine at some time in mid June. I think we grafted a few days-one week apart, and if I recall your also in Michigan. Again, take it with a grain of sand if others are telling you to do it later!

I would think that there would still be some tension when you cut it, I'd just say make sure not to peel it off and risk pulling on the scion.