Tolerating weeds

S.T.Fanatic

5 year old buck +
Here is a picture of my Ag bean plot (not forage beans). This plot has deer hitting it during daylight which is all I can ask for. It is only about half an acre but has put on plenty of pods (without any input and plenty of weeds). I feel confident that there will still be pods on it come December. I guess what I want to say is a clean plot is over rated. There is a ton of competition in this plot and like I said ZERO input, yet plenty of pods.

It might look like hell but I don’t care and the deer don’t either. On a side note the beans are RR I just chose not to spray them.
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Hard to tell but is that pigweed and more specifically water hemp? Weeds definitely aren't a deal breaker, but certain weeds gaining foothold in a plot may make things really hard in the future. My dad's brassica plot blew up with pigweed this year and I'm still weighing my options. It's small enough that I might go with Native Hunter's technique of hedge trimming them in a couple weeks after they set seed. Nasty stuff. Still considering terminating it all, but hate the thought of losing all those brassica plants. Nice beans though... wish I had some beans like that!
 
I’m not the best at weed id. However it’s mostly (what I believe to be) lambs quarter, with some pig weed and fox tail mixed in.
 
Gotcha. Yeah lambsquarter has been one of the main weeds here as long as I can recall. It's a tough one, but not as tough as these late model pigweeds. It's interesting to walking thru the plot a few days ago and seeing all the planted seeds being left alone while all these various weeds are being devoured. Waterhemp is downright scary. It can grow in dark. Individual plants can set several hundred thousand seeds. It keeps germinating all summer long. If you mow it off short it can make a tiny short seed head. It's growing progressively more resistant to most chemicals. It's just a tough plant. If you pull one out of the ground and lay it down, come back in a week and it'll have grown new roots and turned upward. I will say the nice thing about roundup is that it's still a great grass killer.
 
The deer like lambs quarter as much as anything else at certain times of year


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I haven't exactly fact checked this, but a few years ago I jotted down a post someone made on (probably) qdma forums stating the top 14 most important summer deer foods, according to the Missouri Dept of Conservation. FWIW:
1. summer grape
2. red clover
3. virginia creeper
4. korean lespedeza
5. winter grape
6. american elm
7. dwarf sumac
8. fragrant sumac
9. prickly lettuce
10. fungi
11. slippery elm
12. river bank grape
13. canada lettuce
14. white oak (acorns)
 
Deer dont need a summer food plot - but it may be important to you if you want them to make your land their kitchen. Obviously, They eat many native plants - but those plants are probabaly on your neighbor’s property, also. I have a tecomate lablab mix that is literally inundated with weeds - but appears to be doing well. I have had clover plantings overwhelmed with weeds.
 
My only concern would be that if you don't spray the weeds, you will open the door for reed canary grass, thistle, etc. to invade. Once non-desirable cold season grasses get in they will out compete everything else.
 
My only concern would be that if you don't spray the weeds, you will open the door for reed canary grass, thistle, etc. to invade. Once non-desirable cold season grasses get in they will out compete everything else.

Well it is an anual plot so obviously it will be getting planted to something else next year. Most likely beans again.


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I don't really mind weeds many are pretty good wildlife food. I plant all kinds of different forage of things I think deer/turkeys/pheasant/bunnies/bees/birds/butterflies will like but in the end nature seems to find a decent balance without me spraying everything and trying to micro manage. I just worry about the big things like to many volunteer trees trying to grow in pasture or cat tails getting out of hand and when I read about something I would like to try I plant it. I also don't plant any large food plots with all the ag in my area, might look at it different if I did or lived somewhere else.
 
Weeds definitely don't bother me in my plots like they used to. I have some ragweed in my sorghum mix, the deer seem to be using it. The last couple years I've spot sprayed some thistles that started to get out of control.

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Here is a picture of my Ag bean plot (not forage beans). This plot has deer hitting it during daylight which is all I can ask for. It is only about half an acre but has put on plenty of pods (without any input and plenty of weeds). I feel confident that there will still be pods on it come December. I guess what I want to say is a clean plot is over rated. There is a ton of competition in this plot and like I said ZERO input, yet plenty of pods.

It might look like hell but I don’t care and the deer don’t either. On a side note the beans are RR I just chose not to spray them.


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Good post. It shows how regional difference come in to play. Here in zone 7A summer is a significant stress period. In areas with high deer density, the combination of browse pressure and deer density, soybeans don't establish without weed control. Here, it is the summer forage that important as pods are only used by deer in years with a poor mast crop.

I am very weed tolerant in my clover fields. I start with best practices to establish a weed free clover field but then completely ignore most weeds. There are a few problematic weeds that I do address, but for the most part, I just let them grow. During the hot summers here they actually shade the clover and I find I have more clover under the weeds that does not go dormant in the heat than if I keep the field weed free. Then, when our cool evenings of fall are combined with pretty reliable fall rains, a simple mowing releases the clover and with favorable conditions the clover rebounds and out-competes most weeds.

Things up north are different, and weed tolerance is different.

Thanks,

Jack
 
I have a different take on weeds in food plots, especially RR soy beans. I rent a 12 acre piece of my land to a local farmer who is a long time acquaintance. He has stated that you can not grow two things in one food plot or field. What he means by that is the weeds will take in water and sunlight that could be going to the preferred plant in the plot. A weed free plot is impossible to attain, but I take all measures to keep as many weeds out of my food plots as possible. This is especially true for my RR ag soy beans, as they are an over winter food source for the deer and turkeys. All my RR ag and Eagle Northern managers mix soy beans get sprayed twice with 41% gly. This kills the weeds when they are fist germinating to allow them maximum growth. I hit them again when they are a certain height. This usually allows them to canopy shutting out any sun and rain to the weeds below. After that point in time, I have done my job and I am just hoping Mother Nature will bring some more rain to my region so their growth can be maximized. My Eagle beans are planted in hopes of taking browse pressure off the ag beans so they can put on as many pods as possible.
 
I have a different take on weeds in food plots, especially RR soy beans. I rent a 12 acre piece of my land to a local farmer who is a long time acquaintance. He has stated that you can not grow two things in one food plot or field. What he means by that is the weeds will take in water and sunlight that could be going to the preferred plant in the plot. A weed free plot is impossible to attain, but I take all measures to keep as many weeds out of my food plots as possible. This is especially true for my RR ag soy beans, as they are an over winter food source for the deer and turkeys. All my RR ag and Eagle Northern managers mix soy beans get sprayed twice with 41% gly. This kills the weeds when they are fist germinating to allow them maximum growth. I hit them again when they are a certain height. This usually allows them to canopy shutting out any sun and rain to the weeds below. After that point in time, I have done my job and I am just hoping Mother Nature will bring some more rain to my region so their growth can be maximized. My Eagle beans are planted in hopes of taking browse pressure off the ag beans so they can put on as many pods as possible.

That is a traditional view taken from farming. The problem with that view is that the objectives of a farmer are different than someone managing for wildlife. There is a different success definition for a farmer as well. For a farmer, anything that distracts from his profit margin is a weed (either plant, technique, or method). When America was defined by small farmers, long term sustainable thinking was largely overwhelmed by survival. If you don't make it from one year to the next, it doesn't much matter what you have done to improve success 5 years or more down the road.

As wildlife managers, we are plugging holes in the BCC bucket. Food plots are a tiny fraction of a deer's diet. We can not really change the underlying limitations any location has with soil, weather, and such. Sure, we can improve create quality food in food plots, but since this is a fraction of a deer's diet, it is very high cost with a low impact if done arbitrarily. Nature goes through cycles of boom and bust. The way we can improve the BCC in a sustainable way is to focus food plots to provide quality foods when nature is otherwise stressing deer. This doesn't remove any of the underlying limitations but evens out the bust cycles. It doesn't matter if a deer is browsing a high quality "weed" like a poke berry or browsing my soybeans.

For a deer manager, the only "yield" that matters is the yield that ends up in the belly of a deer when it was a more nutritious option than nature is offering at the time. So, as long as the field has some quality food left over when the stress period it was planted to support is over, it had supported deer all it can. We also have another advantage over the farmer. We do not harvest like farmers do. Our harvest is done by animals which is similar to grazing where nutrients from defecation are cycled back into the soil. The difference is our grazing is done and a much lower intensity (fewer animal-hours per acre).

Both of these factors make it much easier for deer managers to use long-term sustainable techniques which include weed tolerance and other long-term soil health approaches. As science and mechanics have moved forward, farmers are moving in this direction as well. No-till farming is one technique that farmers have found that improves long-term soil health while still allowing them to be profitable from year to year and reducing their input cost over time. For farmers, "weeds" are anything they did not plant and will not harvest because it takes resources from their crop.

We can learn a lot from farming but it only goes so far. We need to realize that we have different objectives and limitations. I'm not saying don't use herbicides or don't control weeds. I'm saying that we need to understand what a "weed" is to a deer manager and when to control which weeds and when to tolerate them.

Thanks

Jack
 
I understand your philosophy Jack but I don't agree. I DON'T tolerate weeds very well. If I'm growing clover for deer, I want to see clover, if brassicas then brassicas. If I have weeds, then those weeds are taking nutrients away from high protein food. Deer and turkeys can get weeds anywhere they walk. Do I obsess over weeds, NO but I sure don't want weeds taking over a high protein clover or brassica plot either.
 
Weeds definitely don't bother me in my plots like they used to. I have some ragweed in my sorghum mix, the deer seem to be using it. The last couple years I've spot sprayed some thistles that started to get out of control.
beautiful plot

bill
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I think there are several ways to look at it. The deer density in my area is about 20 deer per square mile. It rarely snows. A severe drought may be the most stressful time of the year as opposed to a cold winter - but we have not had an extreme drought in maybe six years. I measure my success by the number of deer I am able to attract to my land and also the amount of time I can hold them on my land. This year has been a terrible year for food plots. Early spring floods killed all the durana plots. Late spring and early summer lack of rain prevented bean and sunflower plots from growing - resulting in no food plots of any kind on my home ground. I still have cameras out. Cameras where I was getting a dozen or sixteen different bucks on camera all day long last year in bean and clover plots - I am now getting pictures of two or three deer a week in weed patches. Most of “My” deer have left me - even though I have 300 acres of native vegetation for them to eat. I didnt have numbers of does bearing fawns on my ground, bucks are not centering my ground as their home area - how will this impact my fall hunting - when fifty or sixty deer may use my 300 acres in spite of a normal 20 deer per square mile. Most Deer come to my ground to feed on food I planted - not my weeds. I have seen a direct correlation - the more food I provide - the more deer I have. The more weed free my food plots - the more food I provide. I would guess your perspective changes a lot as does your deer density. If you are hunting in a high deer density of 40 deer per square mile - you may have enough deer on your place if you didnt plant a seed. If you are managing in a low deer density area - you do everything you can. Same with predators - you will hear a lot of folks dismiss controlling predators as useless - most of those folks live in higher deer density areas. Folks who have a hard time seeing deer usually view predators a little different - especially with low deer numbers and low fawn recruitment numbers. It is all in YOUR perspective.
 
Weeds are like people - there are some I really like and others I can't stand to have around.....:emoji_wink:

I manage the weeds in my ditches (ditch farming) but don't really like them in my clover plots.

I can effectively deal with most tall weeds like marestail. It's some of those small ones like creeping smartweed (and other smartweeds) that I have problems with.
 
Weeds are like people - there are some I really like and others I can't stand to have around.....:emoji_wink:

I manage the weeds in my ditches (ditch farming) but don't really like them in my clover plots.

I can effectively deal with most tall weeds like marestail. It's some of those small ones like creeping smartweed (and other smartweeds) that I have problems with.

You just need a duck hole - whole new perspective on smartweeds.:emoji_relaxed::emoji_relaxed:
 
I understand your philosophy Jack but I don't agree. I DON'T tolerate weeds very well. If I'm growing clover for deer, I want to see clover, if brassicas then brassicas. If I have weeds, then those weeds are taking nutrients away from high protein food. Deer and turkeys can get weeds anywhere they walk. Do I obsess over weeds, NO but I sure don't want weeds taking over a high protein clover or brassica plot either.

There is plenty of room for different approaches. In fact, I was in your camp for many years. It took many years for me to evolve my thinking to where I am now. My plots used to be very clean and looked as good as any farmer's monoculture. The more I've learned about deer biology and how they relate to their environment, the more my thinking has changed.

Thanks,

Jack
 
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