Those Considering Grow Tube

[Jordan Selsor]

DONT! Or use with caution!
I have been in denial for awhile now but have come to the conclusion that grow tubes do more harm then good... I would not recommend them unless shorter than 2-3ft for hardwood seedlings. Tubes have cost me or set back a good bit of my chestnuts and pear trees... I promoted them for yrs but no more! Just hoping to save a newbie some frustration.
Looked for a tree tube thread to post this to but could not find anything...

 

[trampledbyturtles]

Would like to know what made you come to this conclusion. Always try to save myslef some cash an frustratin where ever possible.

But so far I have had the opposite experience.

I did a test last yr with some oaks. Some with, some without. The ones with are growing great with most about ready to come out the top, 5ft tube fiberglass stakes. The ones without, look terrible. Almost zero vertocle growth, an slight herbicide damage from the next door farmer, along with increased leaf gal damage.

I don't use them on fruit. So no comment there.

 

[yoderjac]

Use with caution is always good advice. Tubes have both plusses and minuses. In some cases they can really help trees and are necessary and in others they do more harm than good. It just depends on the application, the tree, the tube, the location, and probably more. Like most things we have they are tools and when applied to the right problem can be vital and when use inappropriately can cause a lot of harm.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Would like to know what made you come to this conclusion. Always try to save myslef some cash an frustratin where ever possible.

But so far I have had the opposite experience.

I did a test last yr with some oaks. Some with, some without. The ones with are growing great with most about ready to come out the top, 5ft tube fiberglass stakes. The ones without, look terrible. Almost zero vertocle growth, an slight herbicide damage from the next door farmer, along with increased leaf gal damage.

I don't use them on fruit. So no comment there.

They caused our chestnuts trees to grow to thin... This caused many of them to have a crook or zig/zag in their trunk.. Or they shoot out of the top of the tube and flop over because they cant support themselves. Several have snapped from high winds. Or just stayed stagnant... I think a 3 ft tube with a small mesh cage would work better. These trees need wind exposure before their 5ft tall..

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Use with caution is always good advice. Tubes have both plusses and minuses. In some cases they can really help trees and are necessary and in others they do more harm than good. It just depends on the application, the tree, the tube, the location, and probably more. Like most things we have they are tools and when applied to the right problem can be vital and when use inappropriately can cause a lot of harm.

When would you recommend them Jack? Only way I will use again is shorter tubes to protect young seedlings... I could see in a large scale seedling planting where caging would be impracticable. Quite simply though mesh cage with weed matter is a better option in my opinion 90% of the time...

 

[trampledbyturtles]

Good to know

So u don't think the fiberglass stake help with this issue?

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Good to know

So u don't think the fiberglass stakes help with this issue?

Maybe a little but not much in my opinion... Half of mine are 1/2" conduit. How tall are your tubes? If they are 5-6ft I would cut them down to 3-4ft.

 

[trampledbyturtles]

5 ft plantra with flex stake,
If thats the case, a guy will have to throw a cage around them to keep the meristems from getting browsed anyway.

That's adds up quick cash wise if you have a decent number of trees to protect.

Best to use one or the other in my opinion.
Will keep running tests, probably keep the tubes to the hardwoods like I'm doing. Then conduct another test on next springs chestnuts.

 

[SD51555]

I've had tubes fail on me every way possible. There are just some things that shouldn't be in a tube. Shrubs are one, but there are shrubs that have done great for me in a tube as well.

Here's how you get past the issues:

Wind: You have to have a tube with a flared top. If they don't snap, the tree will rub right through it's bark layer anyway as it sways around the top.
Really windy: Use a cage, and a shorter tube.
Stakes: You have to buy the good fiberglass stakes and put them on the inside of the tube. I still see pics from guys with stakes on the outside and they will kill your tree once they lean over. It's not a problem until it's a problem.
Crowding: You gotta clean them out every year until the tree quits branching inside. This includes trimming off all the branches inside the tube. Plan for at least 5 years.
Zip ties: Don't use them. The sun cooks them, they get brittle, and snap off. Over goes your tree. Get the rubber twist ties.

I've killed a lot of nice trees by making those mistakes above. I've also grown some dandy trees by preventing those mistakes later.

 

[yoderjac]

When would you recommend them Jack? Only way I will use again is shorter tubes to protect young seedlings... I could see in a large scale seedling planting where caging would be impracticable. Quite simply though mesh cage with weed matter is a better option in my opinion 90% of the time...

I use them on all my chestnuts. There is some ACF documentation that says not to use tubes over 18" on chestnuts. This was determined long ago when tree tubes were narrow and non-vented. Many of the issues have been mitigated with the newer larger diameter vented tubes, but not all.

First, I agree 100% on chestnuts (but not all trees). If you are planting a few chestnuts for attraction and can afford (money and time) cages and weed mats are the best option. All trees need to be stressed to some degree by wind or they will become brittle. Tube can have a greenhouse effect which can be positive or negative depending on degree on growth depending on conditions.

I almost exclusively use tubes on my chestnuts. If I was paying $25 per tree, I'd only afford a fraction of the trees and thus could afford to protect them with cages. Instead, I'm growing my own from nuts, starting them under lights in rootmakers indoors in the winter. After amortizing the cost of the setup long ago, I can produce trees with very good root systems at a very low cost per tree. With this approach protection cost becomes a major factor.

My trees have one or two growing seasons under their belts in containers before I plant them in the field. They do grow very fast in rootmakers and I usually safety flags as stakes when they are young. These train them to grow vertically but flex enough in the wind that the seedlings are stressed a lot in the wind without breaking. By the time I plant my trees in the field, they are often already sticking out of a 5' tube. They can stand on their own. I stake the tube with PVC because it flexes in the wind. Here is a thread with pictures: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...h-rootmakers-transfered-from-qdma-forum.5556/

My deer densities are high enough that I get chestnut bushes if I don't protect them. I have had no real issues related to floppy trees with this approach. Tubes are sufficient to protect chestnuts on my place but I do need to use cages with fruit trees. When I use cages, I like to use rope through the cages to allow trees to flex naturally to a point but then are limited by the rope. I prefer this over stakes.

When I plant trees by the hundreds, I do have casualties from many causes. Tubes have not been a major cause of issues with my trees. Once a tree is large enough that the tube does not increase the wind profile significantly compared to the tree itself, you can remove the stake completely. The tree now holds up the tube rather than the other way around. The tube just discourages deer from jousting with them or rubbing them.

Thanks,

Jack