The ultimate girdled tree insult; a three way hit! As the attached photo reveals, a chestnut tree got hit fairly high up the trunk (probably a rabbit), at the base of the young tree (probably a mouse) and in the root zone 4-inches under ground (nice tunnel - probably a mouse or vole). Tree got missed during hardware cloth application time (see other tree that got hit by mouse).
The Woods ... mistakes I'v made
- Thread starter OakSeeds
- Start date
About 6 years ago I started experimenting with columnar white oaks as potential "screen" trees for non-road applications like the edge of food plots or other interior sections of a property Like others, I have used MG and spruce trees as screens; however, I am convinced CWOs are the better choice for several reasons. 1. They produce mast (additional attractant to food plots. 2. They have a longer life. 3. Their overall density is equal (over time) to spruces and better than MG (drops leaves and annual dieback). 4. The Kindred Spirit form - tight 6' wide - is verry efficient in space utilization. 5 The hybrid vigor growth rate mine displayed beat spruce trees considerably (you can see spruce trees growing in some of my photos) and won't lag MG by much. There are 2 versions of the columnar english oak X swamp white oak hybrid; the Regal Prince and the Kindred Spirit (the KS has a much tighter vertical shape). In this post, I'll show CWO (KS) trees that are no more than 6.5 yrs old (including a mutant I'm excited about that is only 4). A second post will chronicle the growth of a single CWO tree that is somewhere between 5-6.5 yrs old. A 3rd post displays a F1 genetic throwback that grows like mad; I'm anxious to see how this tree develops!
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Bassattackr
5 year old buck +
OakSeeds - Wouldn't they lose their leaves in fall negating the use of a screen?
So far, a couple of the trees have retained most of their leaves until early spring; however, that sometimes happens with young oak trees. Given the density of their limb structure, an older tree should provide pretty good screening ... especially if one double rows them. Remember, every year each limb adds limbs (vertically) from 6" above ground and up. The density increases exponentially with growth on the front/back/sides of the tree. I'll take/post some winter photos this fall/winter with objects behind the tree to give folks a sense of their overall screening value. Good question.... thanks for asking it.
Attaached is a series of photos exhibiting the growth on one Kindred Spirit over the past 6.5 years (Icould be off by a half year). It was started in a nursery using my in-ground gallon jug method and transplanted at about 15 months. The remaining photos display its growth over the next 5.5 years. If you go back to post 138, you'll see a "hidden" tree in the photo of the large KS discussed here; the hidden tree is in the mess (grass and weeds) to the right of the bigger tree and the hidden tree is marked by a t-post with a piece of white PVC on it (the mower guys need markers). The other photos in the 138 post reveal how - last yerar - I cleaned out competition around the hidden tree , inserted a water pipe, and placed mulch aound the tree. You will see its progress from a more recent photo.
P.S. Happy Fathers Day; most are raising/have raised children, trees, plants, etc.
P.S. Happy Fathers Day; most are raising/have raised children, trees, plants, etc.
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Troubles Trees
5 year old buck +
Everyone makes mistakes, I am no exception. I don’t have Oaks anywhere on my property, there aren’t any on my neighbors farms either so I was enthusiastic about planting them.
Early in my addiction I planted acorns I picked up on campus and now, 15 years later, I have a few Bur Oaks that are 15-20’ tall and starting to produce enough acorns to actually feed something. Occasionally I run into an Oak that I didn’t know survived despite looking for those holding onto their leaves after all the other trees have dropped theirs and flag it to be cleared out and released in the spring.
A few years ago I bought 2 Red Oaks from Lowe’s and planted them that spring prior to everything leafing out. I’ll be damned if I didn’t plant the Lowe’s Oak about 4 feet from a White Oak I didn’t know was there.
I can’t tell on my phone which picture shows it better so I sent both, but this is a facepalm moment for me.
Early in my addiction I planted acorns I picked up on campus and now, 15 years later, I have a few Bur Oaks that are 15-20’ tall and starting to produce enough acorns to actually feed something. Occasionally I run into an Oak that I didn’t know survived despite looking for those holding onto their leaves after all the other trees have dropped theirs and flag it to be cleared out and released in the spring.
A few years ago I bought 2 Red Oaks from Lowe’s and planted them that spring prior to everything leafing out. I’ll be damned if I didn’t plant the Lowe’s Oak about 4 feet from a White Oak I didn’t know was there.
I can’t tell on my phone which picture shows it better so I sent both, but this is a facepalm moment for me.
g squared 23
5 year old buck +
If having a few oaks you planted too close together is your biggest eff up, I think you’re doing okay. I’m not sure that anything that I’ve done has made any difference at all, positive OR negative. The only feeling worse than regret is feeling irrelevant or inconsequential.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In posts 183 and 186 above, I shared some information about the Kindred Spirit columnar, hybrid white oak tree. My experience with KS trees reinforces the hybrid "vigor" belief often associated with hybrid oak trees. In 183 I identified a mutant/genetic throwback KS tree that exhibits very strong growth (see photo 1 taken 2 days ago). When photographed, it was 3 weeks into the month of August and still shooting new growth. This F1 offspring of a Kindred Spirit tree does not exhibit the tighter columnar shape normally associated with KS; instead, it may be following the more open/wider shape of the swamp white oak lineage. Time will tell its final shape and overall growth rate. The second photo - taken 2 days ago - shows the first acorn I have found on one of the KS trees; I believe the tree is about 6-6.5 yrs old (I need to keep better records). The approximately 1.5 acre area where these 2 trees are located includes 7-8 Kindred Spirit trees, 8 swamp white oak trees, 4 bur oak trees and 2 english oaks. Immediately adjacent to this area are several mature (100+ yr old bur oaks; I am excited about the possibility of cross pollination and the creation of hybrids (have no idea what might happen).
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The Fishman
5 year old buck +
I have a question for you OakSeeds. I was in Denver in July, and the city is using columnar oaks in some of their landscaping downtown. I am fairly certain it is an English x Swamp White Oak hybrid, but I am not familiar enough with them to know if it would considered a Kindred Spirit or Regal Prince. Can you tell from the photos which cultivar it is? I would also love to get some acorns from any of your columnar oaks if you can spare any this year.
The 2 oaks in the foreground are - as you note - hybrids representing a cross between an English oak and a swamp white oak. The closeup photo clearly reveals the characteristic "peduncle" (from earlier discussion) associated with both of the parent trees. It is most likely the trees in your photo are Kindred Spirit because of the extremely tight columnar shape of each. The Regal Prince CWO is the exact same cross (robur X bicolor); however, it doesdn't display the tighter columnar shape. Remember, these are hybrids ... any individual tree may exhibit unique properties. I believe the KS (tight form) was a fluke of nature that smart botanists and others who study dendrology propogated. Your excellent photos show their beautiful leaf structure and color, as well as their ground-hugging lower limbs. Those two are a little skinny on the bottom third; almost look like some of mine that were in protective cages that retardeed growth within the caged area .... I would expect them to fill out over time. Attached are photos showing a KS tree and its foliage/acorns. They pretty much look just like yours!
I'm going off-line so to speak for some time in Sept; however, if I am able to garner some acorns (both KS & RP) late in the month, I'll gladly share to help you get started. Give me a pm after 10-1.
I'm going off-line so to speak for some time in Sept; however, if I am able to garner some acorns (both KS & RP) late in the month, I'll gladly share to help you get started. Give me a pm after 10-1.
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It seems there is lots of interest currently on hybrid oak trees; including from our friends in the 3,4,5 hardiness zones who appear to enjoy fewer options because of climate. Many of the hybrids involving bur oaks are often mentioned. While I strongly favor SWOs as specimen trees in an urban/residential planting because of their shape and beauty (leaves), bur oaks are probably the king - or very close to it - with regard to overall mast production due to the size of their acorns (when grown from parents with a history of large acorns). This is probably especially true for our colleagues in the more northern zones. The white oak / bur oak hybrid - often referred to as a Bebbs oak - is probably an option for virtually all of the zones except perhaps FL. Attached are photos of Bebbs acorns from a tree that has demonstrated an outstanding performance with rewpect to the often mentioned hybrid growth vigor associateed with hybrid oaks. What makes it's outstanding growth rate most admirable is the unsavory environment in which it grows (on an extreme 5-6' slope between two asphalt parking lots). Attached are photos of acorns from this tree. Although its leaves and overall shape favor the white oak parent, the acorns reveal the bur oak influence. Acorns are elongated like the white oak with a distinct white oak acorn type cap. However, compared to white oak acorns that are more slender/tapered toward the top, this hybrid has a fuller midsection and top third of the acorn ... probably the influence of the bur oak parent. Overall, it produces a nice crop of large acorns on a pretty regular basis. Hope this info is helpful.
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Teeder
5 year old buck +
Thanks OakSeeds. Bebbs is one that I haven't planted, but intend to.
As far as burr hybrids go, I have high hopes for the Schuette's that I put in. They seem to like my area and are putting on very good growth. Hope to see acorns in another 3-4 years. I do have a couple burr-english planted, but they seem to have bad luck. Every time one starts taking off, something happens. The best was wiped out by a bear.
As far as burr hybrids go, I have high hopes for the Schuette's that I put in. They seem to like my area and are putting on very good growth. Hope to see acorns in another 3-4 years. I do have a couple burr-english planted, but they seem to have bad luck. Every time one starts taking off, something happens. The best was wiped out by a bear.
Although fall is enjoyable for habitat aficionados because of the availability of mature acorns, it is a great time to identify oak tree varieties since you have the tree structure (including overall size and shape plus limb/trunk bark characteristics), leaf size and shape, and acorn size and shape (including cap characteristics) to give you clues regarding the type of oak tree .
Attached is a photo that show acorns (harvested yesterday) of different colors. Leaves included. Given this photo contains information on 2 of the 3 categories listed above (acorns and leaves, what kind of oak tree(s) produced these acorns? Anyone willing to venture a guess?
Attached is a photo that show acorns (harvested yesterday) of different colors. Leaves included. Given this photo contains information on 2 of the 3 categories listed above (acorns and leaves, what kind of oak tree(s) produced these acorns? Anyone willing to venture a guess?
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The Fishman
5 year old buck +
Quercus bicolor
what's on this 3rd plate? If no other responses are received, , we'll have to declare The Fishman - "the Winner" I'll explain what I'm trying to demonstrate on Wed!
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Troubles Trees
5 year old buck +
I am terrible at this but this is how I learn, the acorns on the plate on the left are exactly the same cap and acorn size as a tree we have on campus which is oddly the only white oak we have, everything else is a red oak and we have tons of oaks here. Looking up the tree on our GIS site just says it is a White Oak so that is no help so I stopped by it this morning and the tag on the tree says "white oak" lol
I work at a large State College, you would think they would be more educational
I work at a large State College, you would think they would be more educational
Troubles Trees
5 year old buck +
So I went back to the tree to see if there were any acorns with a cap and there were none. This is the sign and the page the QR code page.
The Fishman
5 year old buck +
I think I am going to change my answer from swamp white oak to a columnar English oak X swamp white oak hybrid. Swamp white oak is not native to where I live in the South, so I do not have a lot of experience in identifying them. The acorns from post #194 and #196 both look like swamp white oak to me, but you have been talking about your Kindred Spirit trees since June. You even stated in August (post #191) that you would have acorns after October 1. On October 2 you post acorn photos asking for the tree type. Therefore, based on a preponderance of the written evidence, I want to change my answer to Kindred Spirit.
