The "Un-Hit List"

[roymunson]

Had this idea bandied about lately and thought I'd be interested in the takes here.

The farm I primarily hunt has hunters from several stages of life. The most mature passed a 160" class 10 point this year because his body looked to only be 3. The least mature would fall into the "thrilled to shoot a 120" 2 year old" category. And we have a mix of everything in between.

We generally come up with a list of deer by age class each year and Most Mature is usually after a 5 year old. The rest are usually on 4.5 and older.

The neighbors will shoot anything thats a "big 8 point or more" kinda thing. Not a lot of concern for age class. And with only 300 acres it's hard to really manage.

The thought we had brought up to us was, what if we came up with a "Reverse Hit List" of 4 or 5 deer that we could all agree with being off limits. It's not contractually bound, but it's a good way for that 3 year old that's gonna be a stud to get thru. Then, if you need a buck and a 2 year old strikes your fancy, shoot it.

I think that idea would be an easier sell to the neighbors and we've got no shortage of those younger bucks. We don't have enough hunters to kill all of those in a 1 buck state. So if you NEED a buck this year, shoot one of those, but treat those "Deer of Potential" almost as a slot limit.

Once again, not commanding neighbors to obey our rules. But they may be interested in having their own list and maybe have some co-op style collaboration on a couple deer that'd be really exciting to see next year.

Might be a pie in the sky idea, but wondered what your thoughts were. We have good relationships with our neighbors and it's not combative. Thought that may be a better approach than having one killed and getting the "he coulda used a year, but I couldn't help myself"

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

In my opinion, if they can’t pass on good three year old, they’ll never pass on the type of deer you want to put on that list. Getting deer to an older age class is dedicated mindset that an individual has to be driven, motivated, and disciplined enough to achieve. I like your idea, I just don’t trust hardly anyone who has to have a carrot dangled by someone else to actually think they will shown voluntary restraint.
With all that said, what the heck would it hurt. I would definitely try. I’ve tried. Buddies have tried. So far we are 0’fer but maybe it will work for you.

 

[Mortenson]

I have very few neighbors who like to enter into these conversations. I won't even bring it up to anyone anymore other than 1 or 2 of them. Seems people want to be left alone.

 

[West_Fork]

I have very few neighbors who like to enter into these conversations. I won't even bring it up to anyone anymore other than 1 or 2 of them. Seems people want to be left alone.

I try to have conversations that educate people on the history of deer populations, declines, recent changes, and how I see things. Then I sit back a watch them run a utv all over their property and the neighbors shooting anything with fur.
What a waste of time talking to people is...

 

[Electrodigical]

All my neighbors are new, never met a one of them. The only one's I know anything about are the one's over the hill from me. You can tell when they fill their tag. One, by the close gunshot, followed by the sound of the quad. The other way is that they spend most of the next day plinking and blasting away with various rifles and pistols. So considerate. They're the only one that I know for sure hunt.

(the other "neighbor" is 1300 acres of state land, so all bets are off)

 

[SwampCat]

We have done that on our property. Actually printed out pictures of the deer we want to pass and put them in the stands. I have one neighbor who is onboard with everything. Another neighbor where they only shoot “decent” deer - 120” or bigger - regardless of age. I have a 40 acre neighbor and his buddy who shoots any legal buck, and he even invites a person or two who hasnt killed a deer this year to come kill one at his place. They have killed five bucks from a five pt to a nice nine pt as his place - and they arent done yet. Plenty other 20 acre neighbors just like him. We have killed buck off my 350 acres.

While I dont like that type of thing, I learned long ago to play with what I have, make the best of it, and dont worry about what everyone else does. When we do kill a nice one, it means more than if I was the only one in the area hunting - it is much more of a challenge. Too many people spend too much time worrying about everyone else. Figure out what is the top end of realistic for your current conditions and make the best of it.

 

[Gravel Road]

I have a great neighbor on two sides. We share trail camera pics and talk about which deer are shooters and ones to let go another year.

 

[trampledbyturtles]

Would love to but it's not happening.

My neighbors kill out of season, spotlight, party hunt tags, run deer, tresspass, and steal. Don't think they care about age class.

Glad Dad had the foresight to plant twin row conifer screens on all sides of the property 30 years ago.

 

[roymunson]

Well that went well


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[roymunson]

I have think the point was shoot anything BUT a very select few. I think I have good enough neighbors that we could make a run at it


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[Bill]

I have think the point was shoot anything BUT a very select few. I think I have good enough neighbors that we could make a run at it


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I have done that with two neighbors on two separate deer. Picked one that was going to be a stud and let it walk. Both survived. We killed one and the neighbor killed the other both the following year when they were on the ok to shoot list. so it can happen.

 

[356]

Had this idea bandied about lately and thought I'd be interested in the takes here.

The farm I primarily hunt has hunters from several stages of life. The most mature passed a 160" class 10 point this year because his body looked to only be 3. The least mature would fall into the "thrilled to shoot a 120" 2 year old" category. And we have a mix of everything in between.

We generally come up with a list of deer by age class each year and Most Mature is usually after a 5 year old. The rest are usually on 4.5 and older.

The neighbors will shoot anything thats a "big 8 point or more" kinda thing. Not a lot of concern for age class. And with only 300 acres it's hard to really manage.

The thought we had brought up to us was, what if we came up with a "Reverse Hit List" of 4 or 5 deer that we could all agree with being off limits. It's not contractually bound, but it's a good way for that 3 year old that's gonna be a stud to get thru. Then, if you need a buck and a 2 year old strikes your fancy, shoot it.

I think that idea would be an easier sell to the neighbors and we've got no shortage of those younger bucks. We don't have enough hunters to kill all of those in a 1 buck state. So if you NEED a buck this year, shoot one of those, but treat those "Deer of Potential" almost as a slot limit.

Once again, not commanding neighbors to obey our rules. But they may be interested in having their own list and maybe have some co-op style collaboration on a couple deer that'd be really exciting to see next year.

Might be a pie in the sky idea, but wondered what your thoughts were. We have good relationships with our neighbors and it's not combative. Thought that may be a better approach than having one killed and getting the "he coulda used a year, but I couldn't help myself"

I’ve been working through this same dilemma with our small coop. The starting point for progress has been education on age class and celebrating doe harvests. The same guys who shoot 2.5 year olds “for meat” often will pass 10 does to get that 2.5 year old. We also have to practice what we teach. I’ve not harvested a buck this year because I am filling my freezer with does and focusing on age class (which is 4.5). It takes time, but helping folks understand does are deer is a good starting point.

 

[gjs4]

I have think the point was shoot anything BUT a very select few. I think I have good enough neighbors that we could make a run at it


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I would definitely keep track of these deer and bring them up the following year to limit the "I dont know.....havent seen him....never seen him..... missing...no sheds....." etc outcomes. If there is no accountability there will be at least one group taking advantage.

Know of a famous deer guy in Iowa that share pics and his lists with the neighbors. He has LOTS of money to which he will help neighbors with things, or fence the off, etc. He reminds them how lucky they are to own the soil they are and that he is the reason it is worth so much more above average for the area but that can change. One small neighbor started leasing hunting rights out. He had a friend lease them up for multiple years and fenced the entire line.

 

[Brian662]

I couldn't even get my co-owner partner to not shoot one of two deer on our "un-hit list", I doubt it would work with any of the neighbors. Very frustrating and no guarantee this deer wouldn't have been killed during rifle season, but very frustrating.

 

[MN Slick]

I think it's a solid idea and am considering it myself. I think a lot of guys think managing for high end bucks means they will have very few bucks they can shoot so they resist. In reality, in areas with a good population there are a LOT of targets, roughly 70% of the older bucks.

Buy them a copy of Strategic Harvest System: How to Break Through the Buck Management Glass Ceiling for Christmas. It will take some education.

 

[Tree Spud]

Had this idea bandied about lately and thought I'd be interested in the takes here.

The farm I primarily hunt has hunters from several stages of life. The most mature passed a 160" class 10 point this year because his body looked to only be 3. The least mature would fall into the "thrilled to shoot a 120" 2 year old" category. And we have a mix of everything in between.

We generally come up with a list of deer by age class each year and Most Mature is usually after a 5 year old. The rest are usually on 4.5 and older.

The neighbors will shoot anything thats a "big 8 point or more" kinda thing. Not a lot of concern for age class. And with only 300 acres it's hard to really manage.

The thought we had brought up to us was, what if we came up with a "Reverse Hit List" of 4 or 5 deer that we could all agree with being off limits. It's not contractually bound, but it's a good way for that 3 year old that's gonna be a stud to get thru. Then, if you need a buck and a 2 year old strikes your fancy, shoot it.

I think that idea would be an easier sell to the neighbors and we've got no shortage of those younger bucks. We don't have enough hunters to kill all of those in a 1 buck state. So if you NEED a buck this year, shoot one of those, but treat those "Deer of Potential" almost as a slot limit.

Once again, not commanding neighbors to obey our rules. But they may be interested in having their own list and maybe have some co-op style collaboration on a couple deer that'd be really exciting to see next year.

Might be a pie in the sky idea, but wondered what your thoughts were. We have good relationships with our neighbors and it's not combative. Thought that may be a better approach than having one killed and getting the "he coulda used a year, but I couldn't help myself"

Sounds like a great plan. Certainly worth a try.

In my experience, everybody likes these proposals because they all want to shoot bigger deer. The problem I have had is that deer culture and habits are deeply rooted. Everybody agrees with the plan until the bell rings on opening day. The plan is quickly forgotten, folks revert back to their old ways, and the shooting gallery of 2.5 to 3.5 yo starts.

 

[Maddog66]

We killed 4 bucks off a 200 acre property this year in Central WI (bow + rifle). Two 3.5 yo’s and two 4.5 yo’s.

I believe that if you can get people to *honestly* pass on 1.5 and 2.5’s, in good range you’ll be able to harvest 3.5’s and 4.5’s pretty consistently. Plus the occasional 5.5 and 6.5.

Asking people to pass 3.5’s in this area with young and new hunters everywhere, is a huge ask. Probably not realistic.

 

[roymunson]

Sounds like a great plan. Certainly worth a try.

In my experience, everybody likes these proposals because they all want to shoot bigger deer. The problem I have had is that deer culture and habits are deeply rooted. Everybody agrees with the plan until the bell rings on opening day. The plan is quickly forgotten, folks revert back to their old ways, and the shooting gallery of 2.5 to 3.5 yo starts.

That's fair. And I don't anticipate it working perfectly, but, if it plants a seed and say 50% of the "unhit list" bucks make it thru because of it, that makes for better deer next year.

I'm saying you need to have a short list. If you extend the list, it gets confusing and not everyone runs cameras and is as in tune with their property and whats on it as you/we are. Couple identifiable bucks to try to save and everything else is on the table. If you feel like whacking a forky, and it works for you, feel free. Trying to shame someone for killing whats legal on their ground is stupid. But if we all want bigger bucks, lets let that 135" 3 year old go and try to shoot the 120" 4 year old "dud".

Admittedly, add kids into this mix and first time hunters and it can get pretty convoluted.


I know there are holes in it, and I'm not coming to my neighbors with a hammer in my hand. I think they'd at least try. Thats all we can ask for.

 

[SwampCat]

Outside the small property owners which dont see passing ANY legal deer as a benefit to them - they see it as only helping the larger land owners in the neighborhood - rhe larger landowners - maybe 100/200 acres and up are pretty much all on board - and I think that is probably because we are a two buck rifle state. They know they can shoot those sub par mature bucks and still be able to stay in the woods hunting. Very few of the larger acreage hunters will kill two bucks. The smaller landowners are the ones more likely to do that.

What is difficult to get any hunter onboard with here is passing does. Our G&F dept went all in on reducing doe numbers about 15 years ago and they were successful at conveying the idea. Since then, fawn recruitment continues to decline across most of the south, yet doe bag limits remain unchanged.

I have two 15/20 acre adjacent landowners who each kill four or five does every year. We kill one or two off my 350 acres because we know the neighbors use them as freezer fillers.

It is interesting to me to note the differences in deer herds around the country. Many places are over populated with does and are hurting for mature bucks. We have a long season, two buck limit, hunt during the rut, bait, run dogs, yet 4.5 yr old and older bucks make up a realistic component of the herd - unfortunately, even our mature bucks are often lacking for antlers.

CWD regulations are not kind to getting age on bucks - at least in our state. Fortunately, I am not in a cwd zone - yet - but in our cwd zones, they dropped the 3 pt antler restriction and started counting button bucks as antlerless deer - allowing hunters to take five of them

 

[Brian662]

That's interesting. Button bucks have always been antlerless in MN and WI.