omicron1792
5 year old buck +
You never answered my question about refreshing clover plot with light discing. I went ahead and did it this year and added rye and oats with some more clover. Good idea?
The Throw n’ Mow Method
- Thread starter Crimson n' Camo
- Start date
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Good idea in my book. Discing likely not necesary. Most years oats can be thrown and mown. Years that are dry, they need to be in the ground.
Used to spread oats and clover seed, then weedwhack my shooting lane up at camp. Worked great for years. Added lime and a little fertilizer. Got low pH sandy soil.
Folk n here are realizing no-till may not be a permanent option due to soil compaction.
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omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I got the no till ag down. My question is for light discing having a place, especially for plot where reseeding a real possibility.
Here in Deep South, broadcasting oats will get you exactly 0% germinated and growing oats
FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
Sorry I missed your question. Disc away. My disc is always close-by. I don't hesitate to use it. I'm not a big fan of throw and mow - or at best I'm ambivalent. And, as an idea, I'm all for regenerative ag. But, I think we need to put it all into context.
Here's the way I think. Food plotting and production agriculture are two different considerations. Each has its purpose and means-to-the-end. Financial survival and profit drive production ag. What drives food plotting? Each of us probably has our own different answer. It's easy for a production operator to judge his/her accomplishment. Pay the bills or disappear. But how do we measure accomplishment in food plotting?
I think food plotting should be done on the cheap. I mean the outcome can be ugly and still be effective. To that end throw and mow has a lot to offer. Throw it, mow it, and make it work. It's not that simple but it's more simple than row crop farming for profit. Or it can be. But it requires more management and understanding. I would suggest using a disc to get a better food plot isn't as soil disruptive as many think. If you are throwing you must have a field full of biomass, yes? You turn the soil and all that organic matter is still there. At the same time, sure, you are burning some soil-contained organic matter. If you understand the equation, gain minus loss, I think we can safely assume a net gain/loss of zero. I can find you research to back that assertion.
Production ag is a whole different situation. A lot of the biomass produced year-after-year is carried off in harvest. Then year-after-year turning/churning of the soil will burn organic matter. Add to that soil erosion - and soil productivity goes down hill fast. Enter regenerative ag. I'll be honest, in my life cover crops were planted to reduce soil erosion, but we are now seeing a lot more benefit that I didn't see until recently.
A lot of us discuss big ideas and concepts here and I wonder if it chases some people away? It really isn't as hard as we might make it seem. I have no trouble turning dirt where the dirt is full of OM - in food plotting - where you want (need?) the boost of seeing your crop grow and prosper.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I agree with you my man. Thanks.
I use a fancy drill so I’m not in same boat as alot of people. Makes regenerative ag much easier. But I’ll tell you for lots of food plotters the Firminator is a great tool and I still use mine a good bit. All my trails get a light discing, stiMuulates great grasses and forbs. Also prepares them to act as a firebreak.
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
For me it’s simple. We tend to get a decent amount of rain September and October in my area. When that happens TNM is easy. Last year my plots didn’t turn out that great and with the forecasts we had this year there was no way I wasn’t going to turn some ground and get the seed in the soil.
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omicron1792
5 year old buck +
We have gotten about an inch of rain in 3 months and October is our driest month. Throwing seed on the ground would only feed the birds.
Crimson n' Camo
5 year old buck +
One of the biggest issues I see folks having with throw and mow over the years is that don’t actually do what they need to do in the beginning in order to have long term success. They ask what they should do…..you tell them “Add lime and nitrogen during the summer and boost your native vegetation to let it repair the soil and build OM”…….Next thing you know they say….”Just got done planting sunflowers, lablab, and sunn hemp!!”……and it just goes downhill from there.
SD51555
5 year old buck +
Great question. I feel like I’m always on an island by myself when I mention resilience as a goal. I’ve been thru a couple dry years the past three now, and I’ve got great forage in spite of it, but it’s because those were mixed perennial plots managed by throw and mow.
Success should be measured very simply by whether or not you can —consistently— grow what you need and have it put deer there when you want them there. Then, it should be done with as little effort, equipment, and money as possible, that is of course if you also don’t love seat time. Believe me, I like driving tractors too, so if you enjoy that, I get it.
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Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Some of this is repeat from various threads but since I only do TnM I thought I'd condense this year into a couple of posts together.
I sprayed my plots this spring and threw seed. It immediately turned hot and dry! Actually hot and dry had been the trend so I adapted my plan a little to more drought tolerant species. Stuff like milo, sunflowers, millet, forage collards....
As you can see we got some germination but it wasn't looking great.
I went kind of heavy with sunflowers. This is mostly due to deer affinity to sunflowers and the heavy grazing they would receive, and also to the fact that sunflower terminate sooner than milo, so this plot would have several stages to it.
I sprayed my plots this spring and threw seed. It immediately turned hot and dry! Actually hot and dry had been the trend so I adapted my plan a little to more drought tolerant species. Stuff like milo, sunflowers, millet, forage collards....
As you can see we got some germination but it wasn't looking great.
I went kind of heavy with sunflowers. This is mostly due to deer affinity to sunflowers and the heavy grazing they would receive, and also to the fact that sunflower terminate sooner than milo, so this plot would have several stages to it.
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Catscratch
5 year old buck +
The plots were DRY and I figured it was a fail. Then during the 3rd week of July we got 2 rains that made all the difference in the world! Plants had been waiting, storing energy, and getting a start. A little moisture and the started making seed!
Even had to mow the yard a couple of times!
As suspected the deer hammered the sunflowers. Leafs and seed heads are munched on.
Some made it. The wife likes fields of flowers and is partial to picking them for the house.
Even had to mow the yard a couple of times!
As suspected the deer hammered the sunflowers. Leafs and seed heads are munched on.
Some made it. The wife likes fields of flowers and is partial to picking them for the house.
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Catscratch
5 year old buck +
A pic from earlier this summer under the power lines. I hadn't done anything for plot for a couple of years but I suspect there was some clover, hairy vetch, and maybe alfalfa left over in all the grass that took over. I'm kind of big on ecological succession and the benefits of native plants to wildlife so it's ok for me let a plot grow back for several years.
Same plot (different view). Sprayed a few weeks ago, mowed, then a week ago spread clovers and alfalfa.
Sunflowers dried down and nothing left in the plots other than dry stalks (we didn't any more rain after the 3rd week of July).
I mowed several paths leading out like a wagon wheel from the kitchen window.
The previous plots (and the mowed paths in the milo) got awnless wheat and rye added to them Monday night. I'm envisioning deer staged up in green paths through the milo all winter.
We got rain yesterday and last night! I know it's late to be putting in fall plot but with no rain since July and temps consistently in the 80-90s all fall it didn't seem like it would be worth seeding at the "right" time.
Same plot (different view). Sprayed a few weeks ago, mowed, then a week ago spread clovers and alfalfa.
Sunflowers dried down and nothing left in the plots other than dry stalks (we didn't any more rain after the 3rd week of July).
I mowed several paths leading out like a wagon wheel from the kitchen window.
The previous plots (and the mowed paths in the milo) got awnless wheat and rye added to them Monday night. I'm envisioning deer staged up in green paths through the milo all winter.
We got rain yesterday and last night! I know it's late to be putting in fall plot but with no rain since July and temps consistently in the 80-90s all fall it didn't seem like it would be worth seeding at the "right" time.
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omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Looks great my man. Wheat and what’s in the other bag?
Also so jealous of the midwestern deer. This is what mine look like. Ha
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
The other bag is Winter Rye. I seeded it very heavy. I'm good with putting down way to much cereal grain.
You've got great bucks!
Did you tnm the milo or conventional planting method?
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
TnM. I don't have a disc or a drill so everything I do is TnM. I spray, broadcast, sometimes mow, and pray for rain.
What type of milo seed was that - wgf or some commercial variety? How many lbs per acre approx with the sunflowers, milo, and any millet. Did you fertilize? Thanks
SD51555
5 year old buck +
Cat, does your wheat crop leave a good load of residue behind?
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Yes, yes it does. But it goes away pretty quickly. I think I've developed some fairly active soil.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Don't hate on me for this... but it's "whole milo" from the local CO-OP (feed), and black oil sunflower bird seed. I stress about introducing invasives without certified and uncleaned seed, but I've had all the bad stuff (Palmer A., Marestail, JG, etc) and got rid of them through diverse plantings and without sprays.
I put out 50lbs of each on about 3/4 of an acre. Millet was much more conservative. I kind of did it by feel.
I don't fertilize. I plant to mine minerals and encourage soil activity. And I let the plot tell me what it's ready for. For instance, these plots were clovers that had become dominated by grasses so I decided that it was time to plant my own grasses to out compete the encroachment and to balance whatever was encouraging the grasses to thrive. If natives were invading then it must be favorable for milo, sunflowers, and millets. Understandably they did well because conditions were obviously good for that type of plant.
