The 4.5 year old buck

PS - In 2020, the Booner I killed was on a guy's trail camera 2.5 miles from my farm just four days before I killed the deer.
Not at all uncommon to have mature bucks roaming for several miles during the rut and shortly after the "peak" too. Some famous, "heavyweight" deer hunters wrote about mature buck travel some years ago (I believe in NAW magazine. (It may have been G. Whittington, Wensel bros., ???). They reported on some studies done by deer biologists who attached radio collars to several big, mature bucks. I remember the furthest distance one buck travelled was 15 miles from his home core area. Several other bucks in the study travelled 3 to 6 miles regularly. Buck travel will vary, I'm sure, from region to region. But I found their info pretty interesting. It might explain why we see certain bucks "all year long" and then they become scarce in the fall - or end up shot by a hunter (or dead on the road) miles away from its core area. Cams help ID "our" bucks when they get taken elsewhere.
 
The other tactic i would recommend is use your neighbors activity to your advantage. If they are in thy are stands 15-30 minutes before opening, be in your stand 60 minutes before opening. Their movement into their stands should puch the deer into your cover.
Done this. It works.
 
SO what I have done is we cater to the does. Keep the does happy and use them as bait to bring the more mature deer to us. They all don't get to us, but a few nice deer do.
Bingo!!!!! In the fall, the wind carries the scent of does all over the place. The bucks KNOW where the does are. The buck survivors from one season to the next remember where the ladies were the year before. Here in Pa. - where it's "kill something or you're not a man / real hunter" - having a good resident population of does is the best lure for cruising bucks each fall. And as others have said previously, having trigger restraint yourself, and neighbors who also hold their triggers / want older bucks too - is a huge plus for taking older deer.

Pa. is known for "If I don't shoot it, my neighbor will" - and that's always been a problem here. If your neighbors don't care about mature bucks 3.5+, you'll have a tough, uphill battle. IMO, the main reason we have more "racked" bucks today, as compared to years gone by, is the antler restrictions the PGC put on about 10 or 12 years ago. Before that, a buck was LUCKY to see its second year here. A 2.5 year-old buck was a "trophy." One-antlered spikes 3" long got killed ........... you know, for bragging rights!!!!!

Good luck on your quest to get bigger, older deer.
 
You can't kill deer that aren't there, figure out what the area has to offer and focus your efforts on the top 10% of available bucks regardless of what they are. Spend your time on habitat and make sure it stays fun.

For most of us this is a hobby, I'm not getting paid regardless of how big my deer are so keep it fun and challenging without making it frustrating I got enough stress at work.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
 
^^^. This is where I’m at. The last 2 years I’ve missed quite a bit of hunting waiting and waiting for better bucks to show up during the rut before I started to put pressure on my property. They never showed because I don’t believe they were around. Sure, a big buck could’ve passed through that all my cameras missed but I’m at the point now where I’m going to start working with what my area has to offer and enjoy hunting earlier and more often. We killed the biggest buck and the 3rd biggest buck we had on camera during rifle season and I probably would’ve had multiple opportunities at those bucks in early October with my bow based on trail cameras. I’m simply going to set some modest goals for myself such as 6 points or bigger or outside the ears and see what the next few years has to offer. I’m done waiting for a unicorn to show up.
 
It can be frustrating but I have not given up yet. Our property is 163 acres in a good area but is roughly shaped like four 40 acre sections in a stair step configuration, so lots of border with neighbors. All but 22 acres is wooded. Our kids lease 160 acres that borders our east side. Between the 4 of us that hunt we have killed just 4 bucks in the last 4 years. Neighbors around us have killed 16 bucks this season within 1/2 mile of our property. I ran 9 cameras this year and the 2 largest bucks we saw might barely make 150bc. The neighbors are not going to change what they shoot, they have different dreams than mine. I have built many deer beds, planted chestnuts, apples and pears, done hinge cutting and planted several 1/2 acre plots with clover, rye, oats, turnip, radish, etc. I know our deer sightings are much higher than most of the neighbors. What I need to do is get the equipment to plant bigger better plots, continue to improve the woods and redirect some travel patterns. We may have to then see how it goes and target the top 10-20% of bucks rather than wait for the one that is not there.
 
Whatever your plans or goals are, the habitat management and the hunt need to be fun.

If it is no longer fun, something has to change. Change locations, change goals, change weapons, but at least try something different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Whatever your plans or goals are, the habitat management and the hunt need to be fun.

If it is no longer fun, something has to change. Change locations, change goals, change weapons, but at least try something different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What Changed for me was my mindset. I had to become ok with not filling a tag. This was honestly the first year I was ok with that. I let a couple bucks go that year that I'd normally tipped over in a heart beat. They stayed on my property all year (mostly) and now they are wintering with about 30 other deer at my place. This is also the first year I've had deer winter. Time will tell if they stick around.

We will see what next year brings🤞
 
We're pretty blessed, but lose a lot of 3 year olds to the neighbors. Last year I think the neighbors shot 4-5 that were 3 and younger. They were deer we either had on cam or had passed in person. It happens. All hunters have different goals in the woods, and if you're doing it legally, I can't stop you.

That said, our biggest frustration has been all buck hunting and no one shooting does. We generally have a couple 4 or 5 year olds to chase, but we cannot get them to the size we think they should be.

a 2-4 year olds we shot went right at pope and young, while the 2 5 year olds were 132" and 140" respectfully. Those are the oldest deer in the woods and they didn't grow much from last year. Age wise they should be 150+ easily, but we can't seem to get them there. But we're working on that. the last 4 years or so we've done substantial habitat work and hoping to turn a corner. But it's tough when the neighbors shoot teh 135" 3 year old that has the potential to blow up at 4 or 5. To most hunters a 3 year old looks good enough to kill, but is also dumb enough to be visible.

If you wanna shoot the big mature deer, you have to be willing to only kill one every 2-4 years in my area. I'm ok with that, just sucks when that mature deer only scores 135". However, I've been teaching myself to hunt for age, not antler size
 
Ohio is doubly tough because we can bait. It allows the guy with 30 acres to plop down a couple of tons of corn and out compete the guys with the cover and habitat. We have a neighbor who talked to me proudly about how he has fed corn by the ton, double digit tons at that. Yeesh...
 
I do the opposite and do not archery hunt this area where I live. I don’t use trail cams. I just stay out and try to keep everyone else out except adjacent land owners who might need to trail a deer.

Archery hunters, pheasant hunters and other small game hunters pressure land all around me. When the crops come off, deer move to areas where they have not been disturbed.

We enjoy the rifle season and hunt from the outside in, if that makes sense. Leave as much undisturbed as possible.

Keeping your scent and hunting pressure out of there until the rifle rut hunt works best for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is exactly what my brother does and where I'm headed to on my own land.
 
What Changed for me was my mindset. I had to become ok with not filling a tag.

That's the biggest thing IMO. Unfortunately for many of us it takes neighbors that feel the same for it to make a notable difference.

I haven't punched a buck tag in my home state the last 4 years. Doesn't bother me. I'm hoping to run an arrow through a doe yet this year now that buck activity is basically 0 on my place. It's easier to pass stuff when you've already got plenty of elk meat but I'd have just killed a doe a long time ago if I needed meat or just wanted to kill something.
 
What Changed for me was my mindset. I had to become ok with not filling a tag. This was honestly the first year I was ok with that. I let a couple bucks go that year that I'd normally tipped over in a heart beat. They stayed on my property all year (mostly) and now they are wintering with about 30 other deer at my place. This is also the first year I've had deer winter. Time will tell if they stick around.

We will see what next year brings🤞
Pass up a deer and then find his sheds. You can do that if theyre wintering there!

Now you've got the best constellation prize! You get to "have your cake and eat it too". And it will make next years trophy so much sweeter!
 
Setting aside the trigger happy neighbors issue ... the 2 biggest factors in growing an mature buck with high score antlers are nutrition & genetics. You can attempt to supplement nutrition, but local. natural food & soil is critical. Genetics are either right or they are not.

I don't think people realize how special a 150" class deer is much less getting to B&C size. Talked to Steve Bartylla once and he said alot of deer get about as big as they are going to get at 3.5 yo. Some deer at 3.5 can take significant jump in antler size after 3.5 yo.

I have one 152" buck that is 3.5 yo (the DNR actually thought he might be a 2.5 yo). I also have a 5.5 yo that is 139". Age & antler size are not always related.
 
Setting aside the trigger happy neighbors issue ... the 2 biggest factors in growing an mature buck with high score antlers are nutrition & genetics. You can attempt to supplement nutrition, but local. natural food & soil is critical. Genetics are either right or they are not.

I don't think people realize how special a 150" class deer is much less getting to B&C size. Talked to Steve Bartylla once and he said alot of deer get about as big as they are going to get at 3.5 yo. Some deer at 3.5 can take significant jump in antler size after 3.5 yo.

I have one 152" buck that is 3.5 yo (the DNR actually thought he might be a 2.5 yo). I also have a 5.5 yo that is 139". Age & antler size are not always related.
I actually disagree with the two factors. It’s nutrition and AGE. Genetics cannot be expressed without the other two being met. Genetics (or the perceived short straw) is the boogeyman thrown around when people want to shoot smaller bucks…I heard it all the time in Georgia. Oh so and so area just doesn’t have good genetics, well could it be the fact that it’s a 2000 acre pine plantation with no sunlight and a brown it’s down mentality maybe?
I think there has been more than a sufficient amount of studies that show a) we can’t control genetics on free range deer so don’t even bother and b) given proper age and nutrition deer can release their potential and do amazing things.
 
The order of importance according to "science" studies is:
1. Age


2. Nutrition










Distant 3rd. Genetics
 
The order of importance according to "science" studies is:
1. Age


2. Nutrition










Distant 3rd. Genetics
Liebig’s Law of the Minimum
 
Timely…genetics are best left to the big guy unless you have a caged herd.
295DD7B7-1ABE-40EB-8E9D-8C58049E60DD.jpeg
 
Timely…genetics are best left to the big guy unless you have a caged herd.
View attachment 48240
I saw that too. Very interesting.

The more information I read about and studies I've seen...it seems that the health of the mother(ideally a dominant doe who gets the best bedding area/food) and time of berth (breed during first rut) is as much or more important to the future growth of antlers than the actual father is. Almost contrary to everything I've seen online or often gets promoted; on a side note, I saw Higgins had a social media post today about going on a "cull" hunt on his property.
 
I saw that too. Very interesting.

The more information I read about and studies I've seen...it seems that the health of the mother(ideally a dominant doe who gets the best bedding area/food) and time of berth (breed during first rut) is as much or more important to the future growth of antlers than the actual father is. Almost contrary to everything I've seen online or often gets promoted; on a side note, I saw Higgins had a social media post today about going on a "cull" hunt on his property.
I think the takeaway is concentrate on food, cover and age and let the chips fall where they may. Any area in the us and Canada (with he exception of south Florida) can produce very respectable antlered bucks if all conditions are met.

Cull…I need an excuse to shoot something! Don’t get me wrong shooting an older buck with less than giant antlers is not a bad thing in an effort to reduce mouths, but let’s not pretend we are improving the genetic makeup of the herd!
 
Top