The 4.5 year old buck

[Tree Spud]

All good replies. A little more details if I may. The farm is 150 acres with half of it being cover. To complicate matters, it is an island of cover in a sea of agriculture. What happens is every year during gun season I get surrounded on all four sides. The first buck to pop out gets shot with a rifle. The one neighbor went as far as leaving rows of standing beans along the whole north border and pulled in a trailer blind in to hunt it. Long way of saying, the neighbors aren't interested in cooperating. Deep down inside I know the answer to my question. Misery loves company I guess.

If rifle season is the issue for heavy pressure, you may want to consider bow hunting ( you may already do this) or late season muzzleloader.

Not sure on the type of cover, but planting a 2 row screen of conifers on the perimeter of the woods fence lince line may help.

If that neighbor left beans, I would have set-up on that side of the property and hunted there. You could also hinge cut that side of the property to block travel paths to the neighbors.

 

[Tree Spud]

The other tactic i would recommend is use your neighbors activity to your advantage. If they are in their stands 15-30 minutes before opening, be in your stand 60 minutes before opening. Their movement into their stands should push the deer into your cover.

 

[Mortenson]

Are you married to this property? If not, roll into a better one. Make sure it's better though.

 

[BOC]

Are you married to this property? If not, roll into a better one. Make sure it's better though.

Probably good advice. Problem is this farm had been built just outside Chicago over the last 20 years piece by piece. Land around here is now untouchable for common folk like me, and I can't move elsewhere.

 

[Mortenson]

Are the landowners the ones hunting on top of you? Or guests? Any chance you can lease 1 or more of those farms just to save a few deer and alleviate some pressure?

 

[BenAllgood]

All good replies. A little more details if I may. The farm is 150 acres with half of it being cover. To complicate matters, it is an island of cover in a sea of agriculture. What happens is every year during gun season I get surrounded on all four sides. The first buck to pop out gets shot with a rifle. The one neighbor went as far as leaving rows of standing beans along the whole north border and pulled in a trailer blind in to hunt it. Long way of saying, the neighbors aren't interested in cooperating. Deep down inside I know the answer to my question. Misery loves company I guess.

I think you have a great setup with the cover in the middle of ag. The thing I'd try is to not give the deer a reason to venture into those properties before dark. The longer you can keep them during daylight the better. Put some type of ice cream food between your cover and their food. And, stay out of your cover except to make it better. If anything, create more and better cover that is also food.

 

[Bill]

Probably good advice. Problem is this farm had been built just outside Chicago over the last 20 years piece by piece. Land around here is now untouchable for common folk like me, and I can't move elsewhere.

I would think there is good deer hunting within 5 hours of Chicago. You may hunt less, but the hunts would be better. I guess it depends on how, why, what you want the property for. If it’s just older deer you may need to drive a bit.

 

[gunther89]

I will say I believe it depends on land lay out. We own 125 acres, a road splits the property in half and we literally have 2 different deer herds we hunt. 1 side barely has anything 3.5 yrs and older. Youay get an occasional picture of a 4.5 yr old but it's not common. You go on the other side and that 62 acres always has more mature deer. That area has ridges, big draws and just has the feel of where a mature buck would want to hide out.
We have taken 4 bucks off that side in the last 5 years that have been 4.5+.
Now of course this year, literally every buck 3.5 and older we had on camera got.shot during gun season so next year should be interesting.

 

[omicron1792]

Probably good advice. Problem is this farm had been built just outside Chicago over the last 20 years piece by piece. Land around here is now untouchable for common folk like me, and I can't move elsewhere.

I was watching a growing deer episode by grant woods yesterday with almost the same exact setup. He gave a bunch of good advice to a landowner in parcel of woods surrounded by big ag. I’ll try to find it

 

[TWIG]

All good replies. A little more details if I may. The farm is 150 acres with half of it being cover. To complicate matters, it is an island of cover in a sea of agriculture. What happens is every year during gun season I get surrounded on all four sides. The first buck to pop out gets shot with a rifle. The one neighbor went as far as leaving rows of standing beans along the whole north border and pulled in a trailer blind in to hunt it. Long way of saying, the neighbors aren't interested in cooperating. Deep down inside I know the answer to my question. Misery loves company I guess.

You just gotta learn to play defense. My situation is exactly the same. A 100 acre island of cover surrounded by endless ag. Throw your orange on and take your gun for a walk along the property line once or twice an evening during gun season. I've been playing goalie every night this week and have prevented many bucks from certain death.

 

[BOC]

No leases (I've asked) and absentee landowners who let everybody and their brother hunt. I've tried the defensive strategy. Hell even tried to prosecute one for trespassing. I know it sounds like all the excuses in the book but it's because after 20 years I have seen it all. It just amazes me that at 3.5 years old these bucks have not leanrned how to survive. Even with sanctuaries and candy food they still are just a hair too dumb when the rut hits.

 

[Mortenson]

Any Chicagoland premium for your ground? Not sure exactly where you are, but wouldn't think Bureau or Putnam Co could be more than a couple hours away. There are usually hunting farms listed for sale in those counties. Tough situation for sure.

 

[Tree Spud]

No leases (I've asked) and absentee landowners who let everybody and their brother hunt. I've tried the defensive strategy. Hell even tried to prosecute one for trespassing. I know it sounds like all the excuses in the book but it's because after 20 years I have seen it all. It just amazes me that at 3.5 years old these bucks have not leanrned how to survive. Even with sanctuaries and candy food they still are just a hair too dumb when the rut hits.

If you are looking for a silver bullet answer here you won't find one.

You really have one of 3 choices ... change your tactics, lower your expectations, or change your location.

In my 1st 20 years of dear hunting I had developed the same perspective as you. Was always too trigger happy and ended up taking a 2.5 yo. Neighbors had the same approach. Eas always frustrated with the results. Once I learned trigger restraint, and was willing to eat a tag sometimes multiple years in a row, things changed. In last 8 years I have taken 3 - 4.5 yo and 2 - 5.5 yo.

I don't know you or how you hunt so can only make assumptions & suggestions.

If you really want an older class of animal, and have given up on hopes at your farm, you need to find new ground to hunt. Why not lease your place and go find a lease elsewhere?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Once again we have a human problem not a deer problem. Deer will live to 4.5 and older if given a chance. But they won’t if the overwhelming majority are shot at 1.5, 2.5 and 3.5. The bulk of hunters are into instant gratification but it takes great disciple to do exceptional things. So it’s going to take getting a land holding big enough or throwing up your hands and selling and find a neighborhood that values that.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Yes, it's all cover. My cover. The only cover in the area. And as I said, they aren't interested. I have a hard enough time keeping them from trespassing.

What I was asking is if there is cover on the neighbors side of the line. If there isn’t it might be worth considering making it a wide open buffer that’s a habitat desert on your perimeter. Make it as obvious as possible that there is a transition where things become unsafe.

 

[BOC]

You guys are right. No silver bullet and no easy answers. Options are clear. I just can't throw away 20 years of effort and start over. I have to accept my situation and be happy I have what I have.

 

[Buckly]

You just gotta learn to play defense. My situation is exactly the same. A 100 acre island of cover surrounded by endless ag. Throw your orange on and take your gun for a walk along the property line once or twice an evening during gun season. I've been playing goalie every night this week and have prevented many bucks from certain death.

This was my strategy. I put a road all the way around the property as much as I could with a bulldozer. my first days and weekends of the gun season were spent riding an ATV or walking these roads. The deer kept to the inside and the people on the fringes got tired of the interruptions and moved elsewhere. Realistically your only going to have 1 or 2 mature deer in that acerage so I hunted archery for them and then went into protection mode in gun season. After a few years of this you will get the 1 or 2 to the age you want Or as others mentioned you can just live with what you got or move on to a better property. If you wanted to keep it maybe you could lease it out.

 

[bueller]

This is a super interesting discussion that my family and I have been having for the last few years. I think survivorship bias makes understanding the cause and what can be done very difficult to understand.

Without delving too much into to that, I'm going to play devil's advocate. Is there a chance that there are actually more 4.5 year olds running around than we think and people are actually under-estimating many buck ages? A 4.5 year old in late November can look like a 3.5 in early November when you account for body mass lost during the rut. How many of us can with any certainty judge a deer's age by their teeth. I've personally been taking photos or videos of every buck taken the last 4 years just because I know I'm still learning how to correctly age a buck with dental records.
I'm not going to put him on the spot, but I've seen several mounts and/photos of bucks of a member of this forum who paid to have his deer professionally aged. My brother and I were blown away by how much older the deer were than what we would have expected.

I agree. I would add that not only are there more 4.5+ year old bucks than most believe (they don't all have huge antlers) but that many of them die of old age nowadays, at least in my area. We have heavy hunting pressure but we also have smaller parcels and heavy cover. Every year I get pics of old bucks before the guns start blazing. 99% of them are nocturnal outside of Nov. 1st- Nov. 15th. They retreat to being nocturnal and locking down in heavy cover during our gun season. They reappear a few weeks later.

Nobody is consistently harvesting these deer IMO because everyone sits on stands and waits. If more hunters would push the nasty hiding spots more mature bucks would be harvested in my area. Of course after a few years of this the number of mature bucks would drop off dramatically. Again this is specific to my area with lots of hunters but not a high deer density nor a trophy buck destination. I'm sure this applies elsewhere though. I'm not advocating for more hunters or more harvest just reporting what I see.

 

[j-bird]

If I held out for a 4.5 year old deer I would still be waiting. We have taken some nice 3.5 year olds....but like was mentioned....I just don't have the cover to hold mature deer. I know that and that isn't going to change. SO what I have done is we cater to the does. Keep the does happy and use them as bait to bring the more mature deer to us. They all don't get to us, but a few nice deer do. I have hunters all around me and most are just weekend hunters. No plotting or habitat work and they certainly are not holding out for a "big one". Our state did implement a statewide 1 buck rule which has helped. Our rule that we try to stick to is that the buck needs to be as wide as his years. This is realistic for us and we see "shooters" every year with seeing a "nice" deer at least once a season. We don't often tag that deer, but we do see them. On rare occasion we will see a 4.5 or 5.5 year old deer, but it's purely by accident! I mostly hunt for the meat, but a nice rack is nice too.

Shoot what makes YOU happy! It should be fun and NOT an exercise in frustration....that gets real old...real fast.

 

[Bill]

I'm not going to put him on the spot, but I've seen several mounts and/photos of bucks of a member of this forum who paid to have his deer professionally aged. My brother and I were blown away by how much older the deer were than what we would have expected.

I’ve sent all my teeth in over the past several years. If it’s me you can put me on the spot
But I may not have all of them on trail cam any longer or remember the ages correctly. The plaques are with the deer and I’m not at the moment.