Tar River SAYA-507 No Till Drill

[Turkish]

A side by side comparison with TnM and the Taya would be interesting. How different is planting in a groove than just broadcasting on top, when the groove isn’t pressed closed?

 

[SWIFFY]

A side by side comparison with TnM and the Taya would be interesting. How different is planting in a groove than just broadcasting on top, when the groove isn’t pressed closed?

Well, I can tell you this in a bit.

I "killed and drilled" part of my fields with the SAYA 507, and then I killed and Broadcasted other parts of the same fields with the same seed mix.

 

[SWIFFY]

And FWIW... i'm in BLACK dirt in central MN and the grooves maybe don't "press" closed but they fill in with dirt and are not open by any means in my experience.

 

[Foggy47]

And FWIW... i'm in BLACK dirt in central MN and the grooves maybe don't "press" closed but they fill in with dirt and are not open by any means in my experience.

That's my experience too. When I go to look at where I drilled....the seed trenches are closed.

 

[Turkish]

And FWIW... i'm in BLACK dirt in central MN and the grooves maybe don't "press" closed but they fill in with dirt and are not open by any means in my experience.

By what means do they fill in? When there’s rain?

 

[Foggy47]

By what means do they fill in? When there’s rain?

That cage roller does a pretty darn good job of moving dirt around. It works pretty good in my soils.....and I see this same concept used in many cultivation "finishing" implements in 'Big Ag".

 

[356]

OK guys I am selling my Tar River 505. It just will not no till in this clay reliably. I would have to till, then drill, and if I have to do that I have a 70yr old JD Van Brunt with 13 drops I can use, and have the JD71 no till with 3 planters and can add a 4th. I am disappointed but I suspected it would be a stretch. It is what it is.

Wish you were closer to NW Missouri...The property is a combination of clay-loam and loam. I would hope the 505 would work well in this soil, which should be slightly less dense than clay.

 

[john volkman]

what i have found is unless my soil is very hard and very dry , i have success. I drilled beans into a mowed and killed switchgrass field and another NWSG field and it turned out great, i think this drill will work excellent when drilling into a crimped or gly burned down cover crop which is my ultimate plan for all of my plots. As soon as i can figure out how to set the exact depth this drill will be the exact tool i need for my property.

 

[Buckhunter10]

I have my drill coming - I am curious how/what you all are doing to add weight where and when it’s needed?

I was just going to get a few totes and fill them with quickcrete. Keep them under 100-150lbs so I can move them myself.

Between back and front weight shelf I figured it would be easy to add 500+lbs.

I’m not sure I need it in my soils and high OM but just curious in the case this does seem to be an issue.

Thanks.

 

[Foggy47]

One thing I do NOT see folks doing on these Tar River NT Drills.....Is anybody increasing the disk opener row unit DOWN PRESSURE via those pre-load springs? I have looked at lots of pics by folks claiming they have no penetration.....but have not increased the pre-load of those springs (on the disk openers). I feel certain we are missing something here.. You can have lots of weight on the drill frame....but if the weight is being carried by the slicer disks and the roller cage....but not applied to the seed disk openers (via spring pressure) then.....what have you got??

Without enough pre-load on the disk openers....they could just "ride up" and over the ground and not penetrate......IMO.

I think Tar River could do some adjustment videos that would help a number of us that own these drills.

I do have 300 lbs of suitcase weights on the front weight trays. I have adjusted the (chrome) hand wheels to improve the penetration of the seed disks. My soil is sandy....and I think I am getting along pretty well at this point. I may try to get a bit more pre-load via what was said above.

 

[Buckhunter10]

One thing I do NOT see folks doing on these Tar River NT Drills.....Is anybody increasing the disk opener row unit DOWN PRESSURE via those pre-load springs? I have looked at lots of pics by folks claiming they have no penetration.....but have not increased the pre-load of those springs (on the disk openers). I feel certain we are missing something here.. You can have lots of weight on the drill frame....but if the weight is being carried by the slicer disks and the roller cage....but not applied to the seed disk openers (via spring pressure) then.....what have you got??

Without enough pre-load on the disk openers....they could just "ride up" and over the ground and not penetrate......IMO.

I think Tar River could do some adjustment videos that would help a number of us that own these drills.

I do have 300 lbs of suitcase weights on the front weight trays. I have adjusted the (chrome) hand wheels to improve the penetration of the seed disks. My soil is sandy....and I think I am getting along pretty well at this point. I may try to get a bit more pre-load via what was said above.

I am part of a small FB group and you must be on there cause you are the only person I have seen make that suggestion, twice now.

One, I figured if I added weight, i would do it on both front and back, to balance the total weight of the drill.
two, I think you are 100% right, those suckers need to be cranked if in heavy soils.

I plant green and have had luck with 2 row planters. I have been doing the REGEN ag thing for several years and am blessed to have found success. So for me, if I can get 1/2 inch into soil and bushog/flail mower off my Spring crop after - I am 100% satisfied. I will be putting it through the paces and hope to do a lot of videos to help others. I will be planting 22-25 acres a year with it at a minimum.

 

[Foggy47]

I am part of a small FB group and you must be on there cause you are the only person I have seen make that suggestion, twice now.

One, I figured if I added weight, i would do it on both front and back, to balance the total weight of the drill.
two, I think you are 100% right, those suckers need to be cranked if in heavy soils.

I plant green and have had luck with 2 row planters. I have been doing the REGEN ag thing for several years and am blessed to have found success. So for me, if I can get 1/2 inch into soil and bushog/flail mower off my Spring crop after - I am 100% satisfied. I will be putting it through the paces and hope to do a lot of videos to help others. I will be planting 22-25 acres a year with it at a minimum.

You got me. Regarding the weight.....I figured that if I could get the slicers to penetrate....then it would be relatively easy for the double disk openers to penetrate too. Thus, I put all my weight on the front. Also, I use the rear weight tray / walk board to stand on when pouring seeds in the hoppers.

As I currently understand this drill....the designer of this drill....intended for the bulk of the weight to be carried by the front slicers and the rear cage roller. Then add ballast as needed to get the front slicers to adequately penetrate the soil. Then adjust the chrome wheels and the pre-load springs to get the openers in the ground in relation to the front slicers (and further as supported by the rear cage roller).

The wild card seems to be that the cage roller can go no deeper than "ground zero".....so all the effort needs to be applied to get the front lower first....if you need more depth. I have yet to hear anyone complain that they are burying seeds too deep (except me.....with the small seed box seeds - and I hope to try my solution to that in a few more weeks).

Edit: If you were to get too much penetration by the front slicing coulters.....it would be relatively easy to limit the down travel of your three point to a level that was to your needs.

 

[Buckhunter10]

You got me. Regarding the weight.....I figured that if I could get the slicers to penetrate....then it would be relatively easy for the double disk openers to penetrate too. Thus, I put all my weight on the front. Also, I use the rear weight tray / walk board to stand on when pouring seeds in the hoppers.

As I currently understand this drill....the designer of this drill....intended for the bulk of the weight to be carried by the front slicers and the rear cage roller. Then add ballast as needed to get the front slicers to adequately penetrate the soil. Then adjust the chrome wheels and the pre-load springs to get the openers in the ground in relation to the front slicers (and further as supported by the rear cage roller).

The wild card seems to be that the cage roller can go no deeper than "ground zero".....so all the effort needs to be applied to get the front lower first....if you need more depth. I have yet to hear anyone complain that they are burying seeds too deep (except me.....with the small seed box seeds - and I hope to try my solution to that in a few more weeks).

Do you know the dimensions of the front weight tray on the 507?

I was thinking of just using totes and filling with quickcrete.

The 507 is 1400lbs + 90lbs seed (2 acres worth let's say) + 300lbs weights (conservative) /10 = 180lbs per cutting coulter.

My buddy had a 2-row planter at 800lbs +/- and it cut through my soils with ease but that is a lot of weight only on 2 coulters.

 

[Foggy47]

Do you know the dimensions of the front weight tray on the 507?

I was thinking of just using totes and filling with quickcrete.

The 507 is 1400lbs + 90lbs seed (2 acres worth let's say) + 300lbs weights (conservative) /10 = 180lbs per cutting coulter.

My buddy had a 2-row planter at 800lbs +/- and it cut through my soils with EASE! It would've been right around that 160-180 per coulter.

Yep. Keep in mind that my 505 has three less slicers and three less double disk openers for that weight calculation.....as well as a narrower basket and frame. As a result, I do get a bit more weight per foot of width than the 507. I do think that some of the penetration issues are due to lack of spring pressure and lack of understanding of what was said above. .....of course I could be wrong. Grin.

I am not near my drill right now. The weight trays are about 12" to 14" wide tho.....IIRC. I have some cast iron weight from other implements.....so was able to put those on the tray and secured with zip ties.

 

[Buckhunter10]

Yep. Keep in mind that my 505 has three less slicers and three less double disk openers for that weight calculation.....as well as a narrower basket and frame. As a result, I do get a bit more weight per foot of width than the 507. I do think that some of the penetration issues are due to lack of spring pressure and lack of understanding of what was said above. .....of course I could be wrong. Grin.

I am not near my drill right now. The weight trays are about 12" to 14" wide tho.....IIRC. I have some cast iron weight from other implements.....so was able to put those on the tray and secured with zip ties.

Yes I am fairly confident in my ability to get penetration due to what I said above. I cannot wait to play around with it. I am VERY interested in the spring adjustments you have mentioned! Thank you sir!

 

[Foggy47]

Yes I am fairly confident in my ability to get penetration due to what I said above. I cannot wait to play around with it. I am VERY interested in the spring adjustments you have mentioned! Thank you sir!

No problem.....I am just glad someone is taking an organized approach to adjusting this model to get the job done....AND making some video on operating this product. I need to look at the manual again....but I had a hard time understanding what was said in that manual. A video would be the real ticket.

I feel I got the best understanding of this product by removing the rear weight tray.....supsending the drill a few inches over a level concrete floor.....and adjusting the tractor's three point first to get level side to side and front to back. Measure the slicer blades with a tape. THEN....work on getting the right depth of the disk openers. Rotatiing the chrome wheels counter-clock-wise will get the openers deeper in relation to the front slicers. Again, measure with a tape from outside end to end. I think my double disk openers are about 1/2 " or more deeper (closer to the concrete floor) than my front slicers. THEN add as much pre-load as needed by adjusting the bent pin keepers on the springs. I am uncertain how much pre-load can be achieved by adjusting these keeper pins(?). I suppose a floor jack and a bathroom scale could determine that.

I do stop frequently to check the penetration of the slicers and openers....and look for seeds. A bright (LED) flashlight to look between the openers is helpful to see the seeds being dropped in that location.

 

[Buckhunter10]

No problem.....I am just glad someone is taking an organized approach to adjusting this model to get the job done....AND making some video on operating this product. I need to look at the manual again....but I had a hard time understanding what was said in that manual. A video would be the real ticket.

I feel I got the best understanding of this product by removing the rear weight tray.....supsending the drill a few inches over a level concrete floor.....and adjusting the tractor's three point first to get level side to side and front to back. Measure the slicer blades with a tape. THEN....work on getting the right depth of the disk openers. Rotatiing the chrome wheels counter-clock-wise will get the openers deeper in relation to the front slicers. Again, measure with a tape from outside end to end. I think my double disk openers are about 1/2 " or more deeper (closer to the concrete floor) than my front slicers. THEN add as much pre-load as needed by adjusting the bent pin keepers on the springs. I am uncertain how much pre-load can be achieved by adjusting these keeper pins(?). I suppose a floor jack and a bathroom scale could determine that.

I do stop frequently to check the penetration of the slicers and openers....and look for seeds. A bright (LED) flashlight to look between the openers is helpful to see the seeds being dropped in that location.

this is awesome. I am sharing this with my buddy who helps on the farm. He is an engineer and SUPER smart about this type of stuff, I am certain he will appreciate this type of analyticalness that goes into your planning and planting!

 

[Foggy47]

this is awesome. I am sharing this with my buddy who helps on the farm. He is an engineer and SUPER smart about this type of stuff, I am certain he will appreciate this type of analyticalness that goes into your planning and planting!

Keep in mind....when you increase that spring pre-load.....you also reduce the amount of travel in that opener.....which is important for uniform planting depth especially on rough ground. A balance here is key. I gotta try that suggestion I made with a scale to see the increase in pressure for myself.

 

[Buckhunter10]

Keep in mind....when you increase that spring pre-load.....you also reduce the amount of travel in that opener.....which is important for uniform planting depth especially on rough ground. A balance here is key. I gotta try that suggestion I made with a scale to see the increase in pressure for myself.

Great point there as well!

Again, I am not thinking I will have a tough time - my soil is 4-7% OM, with CECs between 8-16, fairly good soil, and not extremely hard clay. I do like to plant green, which is why I am considering a bit more weight just to cut through some thatch. I cant wait to tinker!!

 

[Foggy47]

Great point there as well!

Again, I am not thinking I will have a tough time - my soil is 4-7% OM, with CECs between 8-16, fairly good soil, and not extremely hard clay. I do like to plant green, which is why I am considering a bit more weight just to cut through some thatch. I cant wait to tinker!!

I can only wish for that OM in my soil.

I have a fair amount of experience with machinery since my youth. But never fooled with a grain drill until this one. Unusual machine to set up.....especially a three point drill. Got to thinking about the last post I made regarding pre-load and spring travel. And so as to not compromise the amount of travel in the opener unit.....it would be much better to set the opener group lower than to fool with pre-load....unless you need the increased pressure to penetrate. I think you are doing somewhat the same thing here.....to a point.....but at some point you either need additional weight or the resistance of the spring pre-load in order to suceed at further down adjustment (?). Finding that balance is the key.

I am close for my light soils....but everyone is going to have a different scenario. It's the nature of the beast.