Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Interweb searches giving mixed signals... anyone using subsonic for deer with good results (.308)? Some say it doesn't go fast enough to deform and expand, just zips through them.
Subsonic on deer?
- Thread starter Catscratch
- Start date
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
Always less than optimal. Regular expanding bullets won't open up at subsonic speeds, unless you're buying expensive mono bullets made specially for it. What you want is long, nearly unstable bullets that will tumble on impact. But even then you're rolling the dice IMO.
I have seen deer hit with 220gr SMK subsonic from a 300 Whisper (finishing shots, they were already down), they made large broadhead like wounds. But unless I REALLY HAVE TO, I want my gunshot wounds to be like gunshot wounds, not arrow wounds.
I have seen deer hit with 220gr SMK subsonic from a 300 Whisper (finishing shots, they were already down), they made large broadhead like wounds. But unless I REALLY HAVE TO, I want my gunshot wounds to be like gunshot wounds, not arrow wounds.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
I used to shoot with a 24" barreled 357 mag lever gun with subsonic loads. A 210gr custom made lee bullet mold with gas check. It would expand slightly with pretty much pure sheet lead from a old dentist office wall. Played around with spire point loads in a 30-30. Even that minor reduction in speed effected expansion.
As electro mentioned, you need a dedicated bullet. Or, pick a big enough gun where expansion isn't a big bother, like 458 socom.
Using a bullet made for a 30-30 will probably be one of your best bets. I believe there is a 170gr hollow point head out there if you look around.
As electro mentioned, you need a dedicated bullet. Or, pick a big enough gun where expansion isn't a big bother, like 458 socom.
Using a bullet made for a 30-30 will probably be one of your best bets. I believe there is a 170gr hollow point head out there if you look around.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
25ish years ago when I was still deep into single shot pistols, my hunting buddy and I experiments with lots of different bullets in the 30/221. (300 Blackout today) I felt the 110gr bullets lacked structural integrity even for the speeds of the little case and I didn't trust them. 125-150gr Ballistic tips were the bullet of choice and would expand reliably down into the 1600-1500fps range, maybe 1500-1400 for the 125s. Sierra made a 130-135gr(?) Single Shot Pistol bullet that even though that's what it was designed for (though more likely 30-30's or 308's in bolt guns) we didn't trust it below 1700fps, it didn't expand much for us. Point being if those lighter end of the scale bullets were iffy at 1500+ fps on impact, I sure wouldn't expect much at below 1100fps.
If I were serious about being extra quiet, shooting suppressed, I'd go with these. https://lehighdefense.com/308-diame...ng-bullets-subsonic-02308198lpi-50-count.html
If I were serious about being extra quiet, shooting suppressed, I'd go with these. https://lehighdefense.com/308-diame...ng-bullets-subsonic-02308198lpi-50-count.html
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5 year old buck +
Forgot to mention my 210gr would keyhole / tumble in deer. Also, the same with coyotes.
I like quiet guns. I enjoyed that navy arms 357 gun alot. Used it much longer than I needed to. I shoot a CZ 457 ultra lux with a 26" barrel in 22lr. I shoot CCI standard velocity. It is subsonic until you get around 20 degrees. once the barrel is a little warmed up it will bark.
I got rid of several guns because they were too loud. 16" Ar-15 was really annoying to me. Short barrel and the spring in there.
I like my yugo 59 SKS far as noise goes. 20" barrel, muzzle break, and not so fast bullet. Close to zero recoil. 30-30 marlin's are on the quieter side too.
I like quiet guns. I enjoyed that navy arms 357 gun alot. Used it much longer than I needed to. I shoot a CZ 457 ultra lux with a 26" barrel in 22lr. I shoot CCI standard velocity. It is subsonic until you get around 20 degrees. once the barrel is a little warmed up it will bark.
I got rid of several guns because they were too loud. 16" Ar-15 was really annoying to me. Short barrel and the spring in there.
I like my yugo 59 SKS far as noise goes. 20" barrel, muzzle break, and not so fast bullet. Close to zero recoil. 30-30 marlin's are on the quieter side too.
DJN
5 year old buck +
Just as Electro said, dedicated subsonic bullets are the way to go if you’re looking to take game and not just punch paper.
Hate to tell you to go to Facebook but lots of info/loads and deer kills in the Maker bullets reloading group.
Hate to tell you to go to Facebook but lots of info/loads and deer kills in the Maker bullets reloading group.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
You got any friends who cast bullets? You can give a soft lead bullet a try. I'm cleaning my basement over the next week or two. I can see IF i have a lee .308 mold still around and the gas check / sizing die. I can send you a few to try out if you'd like.
Roundballs generally leave the barrel around 1700-1900fps in mst muzzleloders. Their sectional density and BC are just garbage compared to rifles. The bullets flatten out in deer. Around 100 yards or so, a roundball is about subsonic. I haven't used my 45's much on deer, mostly use the 54's. However, seen many many time a flattened out 45 roundball on the exit side of the deer hide. 45 roundball is about 138 grains. 54 roundball is about 234 grains.
Used to play around with the 30-30, trying to make a completely homemade gun of sorts. Shot red powder and gas check bullets.
Roundballs generally leave the barrel around 1700-1900fps in mst muzzleloders. Their sectional density and BC are just garbage compared to rifles. The bullets flatten out in deer. Around 100 yards or so, a roundball is about subsonic. I haven't used my 45's much on deer, mostly use the 54's. However, seen many many time a flattened out 45 roundball on the exit side of the deer hide. 45 roundball is about 138 grains. 54 roundball is about 234 grains.
Used to play around with the 30-30, trying to make a completely homemade gun of sorts. Shot red powder and gas check bullets.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
THAT's the other name I was struggling to remember.
I want to try some of these. https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=510900S
But at near $3 a piece, it makes me think there wouldn't be too much load development going on. lol
DJN
5 year old buck +
Good. Lord. Lol
Just over two ounces of copper should put a hurtin’ on anything it comes in contact with.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
I thought they made one in the 650-750 range but it's not there now.
DJN
5 year old buck +
The owner, Paul Hendrixson is usually willing and able to make custom or out of stock items. I’ve talked to him a few times and just a good down to earth guy.
I know the contact function through his website is temporarily down (appears to go through, but he’s not receiving them), but a call, email, or message through Facebook usually gets a response in short order.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
I thought the had 1000gr one at one point too? Maybe this is a compromise. Can't be selling lots of them lol. Lehigh used to make them as well but don't now.
I don't really need them. I'd pretty sure 650-750 grains of lead won't bounce off.
I don't really need them. I'd pretty sure 650-750 grains of lead won't bounce off.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Holy crap you guys are talking some heavy stuff!
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
(L) 30/221 aka 300-221 aka 30-221 aka 300 Whisper aka 300 Fireball aka 300 Blackout aka who knows what else
(R) 12.7x48mm aka 13x47mm aka .510 Whisper
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
If you want to try subsonic the new 338 arc will be nice for that. 300gr projectile. You can’t change speed, so weight of bullet is how you improve kills.
Treat sub hunting like bow hunting. Double lung, no shoulder shots. Very resonable to 100 yards without dialing and 200 yards if you doped the load. I hit a jackrabbit at 150 yards with a subsonic load.
Custom reloads of Dallas makes subsonic loads for most calibers.
Treat sub hunting like bow hunting. Double lung, no shoulder shots. Very resonable to 100 yards without dialing and 200 yards if you doped the load. I hit a jackrabbit at 150 yards with a subsonic load.
Custom reloads of Dallas makes subsonic loads for most calibers.
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5 year old buck +
Curious why are you going subsonic? Got a silencer? That 24" 357 sounded like someone hit a hammer with something, or something fell in the garage. Rifle shot would be your 3rd or 4th guess. My long barrel 22lr is much similar to this. A big hole doesn't need to worry about expansion. Might be able to find something long barreled in 458 socom or 450 bushwacker without any fancy custom stuff. Shotgun slug could be an option too with the right powder. The barrel part is easy to get anywhere without a big investment. Lee shotshell loaders are like 60 bucks or so.
I haven't toyed with slow loads in muzzleloaders before, but that might be possible too. Something like 25 gains of a FFFg powder in a modern muzzleloader with 240-250gr bullet. Maybe 30grins for a 300gr bullet. Older guns with patent chambers might need more filling to be completely filled up. Old timer light loading bullet case filling is corn starch. Use to put some in the 357 case before I trimmer it down and used a 210gr bullet. Made a reduced recoil load for my wife's 30-30 with a little corn starch after you put the powder charge in.
I haven't toyed with slow loads in muzzleloaders before, but that might be possible too. Something like 25 gains of a FFFg powder in a modern muzzleloader with 240-250gr bullet. Maybe 30grins for a 300gr bullet. Older guns with patent chambers might need more filling to be completely filled up. Old timer light loading bullet case filling is corn starch. Use to put some in the 357 case before I trimmer it down and used a 210gr bullet. Made a reduced recoil load for my wife's 30-30 with a little corn starch after you put the powder charge in.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I only shoot suppressed. Honestly subsonic is just fun. No other real reason to do it.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
I have a feeling your hearing isn't what it once was. lol
Make the parent case a 7.62x39 and now you have a .30 major, .30 PPC, .30 gorilla, .30 Larry, or .30 GR. OR something like that.
I really want to build a .30 Larry, just so I can say I have a .30 Larry.
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5 year old buck +
Looking for a light load for my 450 marlin has ended me looking at alot of different light loaded setups. Seeing alot of trailboss powder loads.
.308? thats the caliber of the silencer, or is the rifle itself a 308 win? Twist rate is well worth a mention.
.308? thats the caliber of the silencer, or is the rifle itself a 308 win? Twist rate is well worth a mention.
