Who knows, caliber and cartridge are wrongfully used interchangeably on the internets. I am seeing more and more published sub sonic loads for the .308 win, but haven't tried any yet. The only subsonic load I have tried is in .300 aac/bo, and omicron is right, its fun. At night with a good light on the rifle they look just like tracers and you can follow them right to the target. That was using FMJs with an open base jacket which makes for a nice reflector on the back of the bullet.
Subsonic on deer?
- Thread starter Catscratch
- Start date
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
IIRC they stopped making Trail Boss.
hillbillyfab
Buck Fawn
I went down this rabbit hole a few years back. I had purchased a .30 cal can and wanted “Hollywood quiet” shots. I only disappointed myself as I wasn’t pleased with the rounds I was shooting at sub speeds on the game we were pursuing, whitetails. I tried a few different projectiles, but nothing I was pleased with. We still shoot some .30 cal subs when varmint hunting though. Now we simply shoot with the can and not bother with the noise when it comes to deer hunting. Dead deer don’t seem to mind the noise. I do find it interesting too see what works for others though.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
I think it was 2015. I finally got a good bit of land cleared for a decent sized foodplot in the backyard at the old house. I made a woodpile blind at the very top of the field. Last weekend of deer hunting in NY, late muzzleloader. Shot a deer at 70 yards, dropped like a rock. Good noise too. All the other dummies looking at their downed buddy. I reload the muzzleloader and drop another dummy for the freezer. Don't need to be quiet for the deer......
I kinda think hillbilly is right, not going to be enough omphf with a subsonic 30-30. Guessing here, but to get enough bullet energy, your going to need ot use heavy bullet. Likely going to need a custom barrel with more twist. Now the bullet doesn't need to be stabilized well, But it does need to be stabilized to be accurate past 75 yard or so. My custom 357 mag bullet would keyhole sometimes, and shooting 150 yard was messy. I could of not made a concentric bullet mold, thats a possiblity.
I think for hunting purposes, that maxin 50 muzzleloader could be fun to work with. It is discontinued. The other option I would be interested in would be a 450 bushmaster or 458 socom. Everything is non-custom order to keep price down. Bolt gun would be best instead of an AR platform. Then you dont have to play with powder or push the edge of going supersonic.
70 deg air is about 1125fps, 45 deg is 1100, 32 deg is 1086, 0 deg air is 1050fps. My CZ 452 ultra lux occassionally barks above subsonic on colder days at camp. The combination of the cold air and the gun warming up brings the velocities to supersonic sometimes. Just subsonic with a long barrel and no silencer is pretty impressive itself. Cheap fun can be had with long barreled single shots or lever gun in larger bores. IF I did my quiet lever gun again, I'd try to find a 24" barreld 450 bushwacker or socom. Think 26" would be hrd to find. Or, a long barreled single shot or levergun is a bigger caliber like 44 mag or 45 long colt. AR platform is a possiblity too. Once you find your setup, you can adjust the gas port size pretty easy on an AR. Even with a silencer on it, I'd still go for as much barrel as you can buy. For the AR platform or any gas cycling gun, the longer barrel helps the gas system.
I kinda think hillbilly is right, not going to be enough omphf with a subsonic 30-30. Guessing here, but to get enough bullet energy, your going to need ot use heavy bullet. Likely going to need a custom barrel with more twist. Now the bullet doesn't need to be stabilized well, But it does need to be stabilized to be accurate past 75 yard or so. My custom 357 mag bullet would keyhole sometimes, and shooting 150 yard was messy. I could of not made a concentric bullet mold, thats a possiblity.
I think for hunting purposes, that maxin 50 muzzleloader could be fun to work with. It is discontinued. The other option I would be interested in would be a 450 bushmaster or 458 socom. Everything is non-custom order to keep price down. Bolt gun would be best instead of an AR platform. Then you dont have to play with powder or push the edge of going supersonic.
70 deg air is about 1125fps, 45 deg is 1100, 32 deg is 1086, 0 deg air is 1050fps. My CZ 452 ultra lux occassionally barks above subsonic on colder days at camp. The combination of the cold air and the gun warming up brings the velocities to supersonic sometimes. Just subsonic with a long barrel and no silencer is pretty impressive itself. Cheap fun can be had with long barreled single shots or lever gun in larger bores. IF I did my quiet lever gun again, I'd try to find a 24" barreld 450 bushwacker or socom. Think 26" would be hrd to find. Or, a long barreled single shot or levergun is a bigger caliber like 44 mag or 45 long colt. AR platform is a possiblity too. Once you find your setup, you can adjust the gas port size pretty easy on an AR. Even with a silencer on it, I'd still go for as much barrel as you can buy. For the AR platform or any gas cycling gun, the longer barrel helps the gas system.
Sounds like a solution looking for a problem.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
It's been a very interesting thread! It went places I never expected and I have learned quite a bit. I started it out of curiosity rather than need. I've bowhunted the last 35 yrs and have only shot like 2 deer with a rifle. I am intrigued by the idea of quiet firearms for hunting though.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Now you got me looking at rossi 92's in 44 mag with a 24" barrel. About $750.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Wouldn't that be a blast to play around with!
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
Just thought of this video, if you've never seen it, cool stuff. Got to really have your distances right and have your data down.
(but if you're not doing it suppressed there isn't a lot of reason to do it)
(but if you're not doing it suppressed there isn't a lot of reason to do it)
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bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
I do not like loud guns. For me the more barrel the better. Pretty much don't like anything with a 16 inch barrel.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I’m with you on half! Love quiet guns too. But I like short barrels on rifles. 18” seems to be sweet spot for me. Why I run newer faster cartridges. And a suppressor.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
Nobody likes loud things less than me. Foam ear plugs in my pocket every hour of the day. I use them for anything and everything.
That includes hunting. Takes one second to stick a rubber ear plug in my ear.
All other shooting it done with highest rating muffs over highest rating plugs.
That includes hunting. Takes one second to stick a rubber ear plug in my ear.
All other shooting it done with highest rating muffs over highest rating plugs.
I have one deer under my belt shooting subsonic. Hoping to add another one or two between Christmas and new years. I’m shooting a bolt action 458 socom and I’m shooting 580ish grain cast hollow point bullets cast from 20-1 alloy. My first deer with this combination was a small whitetail doe in Wisconsin right at 100 yards. Impact was right behind the shoulder centered vertically in the chest. Exit was a little higher as I was shooting at a bit of an angle uphill but the bullet never impacted the spine. I was really interested to see how this bullet would perform at 1000 fps muzzle velocity. The deer made it about 30 feet before going down and expiring. It’s just a sample size of one but the results were better than I expected as I expected the deer would run at least the equivalent of most archery shot deer. Hopefully I get a chance to add a few more samples to my data set here soon and if I do I’ll follow up here with the results.
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bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
thanks catscratch,
Now I have a ruger american in 44 mag with a 24" barrel and a rossi 92 wth a 24" barrel on gunbroker watchlist........ Brought the spare gun cabinet up from the basement yesterday too.
Any of you guys on here buy a rossi? They any good. A Winchester 1892 remake is a dream gun of mine. Can almost buy 3 rossi's for the price of one Winchester.
Now I have a ruger american in 44 mag with a 24" barrel and a rossi 92 wth a 24" barrel on gunbroker watchlist........ Brought the spare gun cabinet up from the basement yesterday too.
Any of you guys on here buy a rossi? They any good. A Winchester 1892 remake is a dream gun of mine. Can almost buy 3 rossi's for the price of one Winchester.
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Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Lol, I do what I can! I'll need pics once you get them home.
I have 2 Rossi .22's. Way more dependable and fun to shoot than our 10/22's. I wouldn't hesitate to buy something else from them (assuming the finish won't be as nice as a more expensive gun).
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5 year old buck +
A bit logic went into my head today. I think it's time for my wife to get a gun. She's a small frame, so regular stocks feel wierd to her. Absolutely loves her 870 20ga compact. Their current website says 14" LOP on regular guns, 13" on compact, and 12" with micro compact. Bought it for her 5 years ago or so. 21" barrel.
I sold my extra marlin 336 about 4 years ago. Had a youth stock on it for my wife. She might like a 22 that fits her. I have ugly old marlin 60 thats shoots good I chopped the stock off a bit for her.
I took my second deer with subsonic ammo about a week ago. This one was a large whitetail doe at about 50 yards. I used a 458 socom with a NOE 580 ish grain hp that I cast and powder coated. Broadside shot behind the shoulder centered vertically. The deer immediately took off on a dead run. Found her 70 ish yards away which couldn’t have taken long considering how fast she was running. Hit a rib on entrance and exit. Exit was golf ball sized and terminal performance was above what I’d expect from a 1000 fps lead bullet. There was a bit of snow on the ground and the first half of the blood trail was easy to follow in the snow but would have been a bit more difficult but certainly not impossible without snow. The second half would have been easy to follow with or without snow. The lungs sustained a lot of damage but certainly not what one can expect from a high velocity jacketed bullet but that’s what I expected so no shocking news there. Only two deer so far with this combination but I can’t complain at all about the performance as it’s better than I expected although I had no doubts it would take big game cleanly. The internal damage has been noticeably more than I had expected from a subsonic lead bullet.
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bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
You have a supressor on the socom? Ever shot the subsonic without the supressor? How loud was it that way. What powder are you using? Tempted to go subsonic again. IF so, 458 oscom is an option. Was buying parts for a 458 socom AR when the NY safe act was signed in 2011. Sold the parts. Don't want to be hassled by a game warden with an illegal gun. NY sucks, NY prisons on the inside suck more though.
Been in a spare room at home for 3 days hiding from my wife. I got covid over the weekend. Cleaned all my guns, put a few scopes on, did a few repairs, waiting for 450 marlin brass to come in. I bought a 2nd modern muzzleloader for the oldest kids girlfriend to use. She hasn't touched it yet in almost 2 years. Might be able to subsonic that gun wit the right powder. CVA is 24" and the omega is 28" Could make the omega subsonic and the CVA regular. Might be able to swap between loads without a gun rezero. Something to play with at the range next time.
580 grain? That thing thump your shoulder? What are you using to powdercoat? When I subsonic'd a 357 mag bullet, I did it the old way, gas check and lee lube. Think it was the tanish one, not yellow. Since your not going that route, you using an AR platform Im guessing? OR just a bolt gun.
Yes I have a suppressor. I don’t see where there would be any benefit of shooting subsonic without one. I have shot subsonic without the suppressor just to confirm the bullets were stable, with the cost of a suppressor I’m not risking a baffle strike by not testing stability before using it. Without the suppressor at subsonic velocities I don’t notice any reduction in noise over a moderate supersonic cartridge. My socom is a bolt action so my powder choices are less limited than they are in a gas gun. For the 580 ish grain bullets I’ve used Lil’gun and bluedot. I don’t notice a difference between the two in the noise level although when punching numbers into quickload it looks like bluedot would be quieter when looking at percent of powder burned in the barrel and muzzle pressure. The Lil’gun load has shot more accurate and consistent so that’s what I’m sticking with. I recently got a mp 405 grain mold with hollow point options. With the lighter bullet I’m able to use some faster burning powders to get to the 1000-1050 fps velocity range I’m targeting. As far as recoil goes with the bigger bullets, it’s got a pretty stout recoil without the suppressor. It’s not unmanageable but you know you e fired something significant but with the suppressor it’s noticeably reduced. I feel for you being in NY. We all have roots established so it’s hard to leave a place you consider home but for me if I had to leave my current home in Wisconsin, I grew up in Wyoming, I’d immediately rule out California and much of the northeast of the US and much of that decision would be based on gun laws in those areas although there’s many other policies in those places I don’t agree with as well. I hope you get over your covid quickly and if you have any other questions feel free to ask. I’d be happy to answer them when I get a chance.
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5 year old buck +
Gun laws are mute when you cant afford hobbies.......... Taxes are getting worse. And now NYC folks can work remotely. Driving prices in the area up. Real estate, affordable dining, prices for contractors. Im locked in a pension system for another 7-10 years. Also, my in-laws are 75 and 80, mom is 76. All live nearby here. No grandkids, yet. Got 20,21,25, and 29 year olds. One or two should be having a few. By itself NY is great as far as the land goes. I am a mile from the hudson river striped bass fishing in the spring. Tons of good freshwater fishing. Weather isn't too horrible.
Supressor would definitely help subsonic. However, when neighbors and the in-law complain about hunting, why advertise. Thought supressors were illegal in NY. However, get a long enough barrel and a fast enough powder, it does quiet it down alot.
Last year I hunted with that subsonic 357, I was about 120 yards away from mom's house. I shot a deer at 3:30, gut it, dragged it, and hanged it under the porch. My mom asked me If I saw anything. Didn't even have the TV on, was reading a book. Your pushing alot of bullet there, so you still got some bark left in that barrel. I've had my CZ ultra lux with a 26" barrel for 5 or 6 years. Guys at camp are still amazed how quiet that is with CCI standard velocity 40gr bullets. Sometimes I feel tempted to buy a 2nd one so I have one with a scope. 6 inch gong at 100 yards offhand with irons is rewarding. That gun has those AK style sights too. Just move the notch to 100 and its hitting right on at 100.
I got a decible meter, but never measured the guns with it Mostly car and snowmobile exhausts. Also, used it for work for regulatory stuff at power plants, local noise ordinance compliance.
Supressor would definitely help subsonic. However, when neighbors and the in-law complain about hunting, why advertise. Thought supressors were illegal in NY. However, get a long enough barrel and a fast enough powder, it does quiet it down alot.
Last year I hunted with that subsonic 357, I was about 120 yards away from mom's house. I shot a deer at 3:30, gut it, dragged it, and hanged it under the porch. My mom asked me If I saw anything. Didn't even have the TV on, was reading a book. Your pushing alot of bullet there, so you still got some bark left in that barrel. I've had my CZ ultra lux with a 26" barrel for 5 or 6 years. Guys at camp are still amazed how quiet that is with CCI standard velocity 40gr bullets. Sometimes I feel tempted to buy a 2nd one so I have one with a scope. 6 inch gong at 100 yards offhand with irons is rewarding. That gun has those AK style sights too. Just move the notch to 100 and its hitting right on at 100.
I got a decible meter, but never measured the guns with it Mostly car and snowmobile exhausts. Also, used it for work for regulatory stuff at power plants, local noise ordinance compliance.
